Comments on: Pujols is a lock for the MVP

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By: Justin

Justin — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:06:42 +0000

I read this article after the MVP was announced. As I scrolled down, I was very disappointed to see you forgot to mention an important name in the field of MVP contenders. Jeremy Affeldt. Where was he on your list Craig? I’m disappointed. He was third on my Cy Young Ballot. 1) Carpenter 2) De La Rosa (16 wins!! – that’s very valuable) and 3) Affeldt.

By: kardo

kardo — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:02:20 +0000

Hey lets talk traditional stats, Lincecum actually lead his team in wins, Carpenter didn’t. How can you be most valuable of the league when you aren”t even the most valuable in wins of your team?
MVP: 1 Pujols, 2 Utley, 3-10 others

By: Joe

Joe — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:24:06 +0000

That would be 154 games, not 156. And what makes you think that Keith Law and Will Carroll don’t watch any baseball games? Keith Law was once a scout, for god’s sake. And for all the complaints about Will Carroll, he put Wainwright first, not Lincecum, and wins was about the only stat where Wainwright had the advantage over Lincecum.
Actually, the old-school methods of evaluating performance (“traditional stats”) have not stood the test of time. ALL MLB front offices have moved beyond things like wins and RBI in evaluating players. It’s the media and the general fan base who have yet to catch up. This year’s balloting shows that the media is starting to get on board with the philosophy. Lincecum received 11 first-place votes – that’s one from Law, and 10 from the “old” media. If you were to give Carpenter the votes that went to Vazquez and Haren, he would have wound up with 98 points – two fewer than Lincecum. Keeping him off the ballot didn’t actually cost Carpenter the award.
So yes, all you Cardinal fans are being whiny. The game is changing, so you might as well get on board.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:19:09 +0000

Well, Utley got hosed again. This is the fifth straight year he’s finished 7th or worse in the MVP balloting despite putting up OPS+’s of: 132, 125, 146, 135, 136, being regarded by everyone other than Gold Glove voters as the best second baseman in baseball, and being one of the best (if not THE best) baserunners in the game. He’s done this for a team that has been to the playoffs three times and won a World Series. I just don’t get it.

By: steve a

steve a — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:44:32 +0000

Joe, BBWAA used to be made up of beat writers who covered all 156 or 162 games for their daily paper or media outlet.
Now, some baseball literati can sit in their homes, follow the games on a computer or watch games on the TV and are still eligible to vote for the awards without ever attending a game or posing a question to those who do play and compete.
Who knows more about the relative talents of a player–those who face them on the field or those who crunch meaningless new formulas which somehow top century-old barometers as measuring sticks.
I don’t denigrate voters who follow the game on a daily basis and do their research regarding seasonal awards. But those “journalists” who follow baseball on a cyber basis like many sabre mathematicians aren’t worth the modum they are reliant upon.
And for the record, the Cy Young is usually given to the best pitcher based on a season’s worth of stats. Carpenter’s stand the test of time. Whiny? Other than strikeouts, Lincecum was just blowing smoke.

By: BIGBRUCE11047

BIGBRUCE11047 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:44:09 +0000

I think Albert Pujols is the National League MVP of the decade!! He is the most consistent hitter in the game today plus what he delivers defensively at first base makes him a very rounded player. St. Louis should keep him in their lineup for his entire career in baseball. He is a well-deserving player.

By: Joe

Joe — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:11:29 +0000

Is the Cy Young Award given to the best pitcher in the second half of the season?
Who knew Cardinals fans were so damn whiny?
The modern MVP and Cy Young Awards have always been determined by the BBWAA, so “ink-stained wannabe’s” were the ones who decided that wins and RBI were so important in the first place.

By: steve a

steve a — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:45:42 +0000

Wait, I’m sure some sabre math expert from ESPN (Keith Law?)has proof Ryan Braun or some such pretender had the best Friday-Saturday-Sunday average in games that somehow mean more than Monday-Thursday games, thus he, not Pujols earned the MVP. Hey, if Lincecum (5-5 the second half of the season) can outpoll Carpenter (led the league in ERA, second in wins and 10-1 the second half of the season) for the Cy Young anything is possible. The vote belongs to the players, coaches and managers, not some ink-stained wannabe.

By: Dirty Lowdown

Dirty Lowdown — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:28:50 +0000

MVP has always been weighted to some extent to the best player on the best team. Doesn’t work that way so much anymore. The Dodgers had a great year, best record in the NL etc…but arguably, Eithier was their best player and he didn’t really catch fire until the last two months, before that his Avg. was mediocre at best, his RBI’s and HR’s were good in Dodger stadium, but nothing to write home about. Kemp would of been considered the Most Valuable Dodger until Andre caught fire. We can talk about Utley, and the rest, but simply put Albert is the best player in the NL if not the game, and he lived up to that again this year. Furthermore, I can’t see the Cardinals even competing
without him. Hands down, Pujols.

By: jonny5

jonny5 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:14:43 +0000

I must agree there, no team in baseball would rather have another man on second than Utley, He’s the rock for Philly. And yes it’s a much easier position to fill on first base. Look at Adam Dunn, He’d be only useable at DH in the AL. He’s not even very good at first base, but they stick him in there anyway. he was a joke in the OF.
Onto the RBI topic, I see the point of getting on base but that sure seems easy compared to driving them in, I guess watching teams leave so many risp on base has given me this outlook. Runs win games and it depends on both getting on and driving them in, which one is more valuable??? I’m not too sure since Howards been in the mix to win mvp with a lower batting avg continuously.

By: Joe

Joe — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:01:34 +0000

Well, you’d probably see more high fives for walks or doubles if they guy wasn’t on base instead of in the dugout having made an out.
Big-RBI guys are typically big-RBI-opportunity guys. I suspect if someone were to do a study, they’d find that the guys who knock in the most runs also fail to knock in (i.e. strand) the most base runners.

By: Ed

Ed — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:57:31 +0000

If you want to have a true indicator of a productive player, why not look at average with runners in scoring position. Average is not enough because you may have a player that has a great average but chokes in big situations. RBI’s are not enough because you may have a player who hits with runners in scoring position every game.

By: Bill@TDS

Bill@TDS — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:48:00 +0000

You see stranded men on base most often even when you’ve got an “RBI guy” up there. Howard failed to drive in 80.8% of the guys who got on base for him. That doesn’t change the fact that getting on base and thus not making an out is THE most important component of scoring runs. Driving them in is still important, but if you’ve got a whole bunch of guys who are great at getting on base, the runs will score; if you’ve got a bunch of “RBI guys” who DON’T get on base, the runs will be harder to come by.

By: John_Michael

John_Michael — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:46:56 +0000

jonny5: What’s more valuable with 0 outs and the bases loaded: a sacrifice fly where your teammates give you multiple high 5′s? or a walk?

By: Bill@TDS

Bill@TDS — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:45:12 +0000

jonny5,
The thing about RBIs is, aside from the 45 times he drove himself in, he needed other people on base to get all those RBIs. More often than not, that guy was Chase Utley.
The thing is, “these categories which score runs” include the ability to get on base *and* hit for power. And Utley does those things just as well as Howard. It’s much harder to find a second baseman who can do those things than it is to find a first baseman who can, let alone one who plays a great defensive second base and is one of the best baserunners in the league. Howard is a very, very valuable player, but Utley, for at least the last three seasons, has been a whole lot more valuable, arguably the most valuable in all of baseball after Pujols. And I’m kind of hoping against hope that this is the year that that gets recognized.

By: jonny5

jonny5 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:31:58 +0000

Ok, first of Puljos gets it hands down imo. Second of all leadoff men are only dealing with no men on base for one at bat. RBI’s win games plain and simple, yes the ability to get on base is also a an RBI factor, but what do you see more often than not in that situation? Stranded base runners is what you see most often, so I’d say a mans ability to drive those runs in as more valuable than just getting on base. If that wasn’t more valuable then you wouldn’t see high fives for a sac fly would you? I in no way feel Howard should be in contention for mvp i just feel Bill had him a little too far down his list, that’s what i was addressing.

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:17:19 +0000

Runs scored, not RBI (I agree with the flaws you identify with RBI). Runs scored reflects times on base, power to some extent (more likely to score if you hit homers, triples and doubles) and good base running. Way less dependent on teammates than RBI is.
Batting average? I’d much rather look at OBP and Pujols leads the league in OBP.

By: Dixon

Dixon — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:12:31 +0000

No doubt that Pujols should win this one. I mean the cards pitching got screw for the cy young. I just don’t see how they are going to give it to a guy who had a great season. He is very impressive on the mound but, did he help his team get to the playoffs? NO! Carpenter should have won it plain and simple. Every batter that had to face him was scared and prayed he wouldn’t make them look like fool in the box.

By: Z2009

Z2009 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:12:14 +0000

Runs scored over BA? Well, I guess your gonna pick Pujols then as he led in runs Scored. If you meant RBI’s then why would that have a bigger impact for MVP voting. RBI’s are based on the people in front of the batter getting on base. Those guys with .300 average and only 60 RBI’s are called Leadoff men. MVP is a individual award so BA should be regarded higher than something dependant on others such as RBI’s

By: mick-7-1961

mick-7-1961 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:59:15 +0000

I would argue your opinion of A-Rod versus Pujols in overall ability, ace, however Albert is not so much concerned about himself as Alex is and his unselfishness is a virtue that places him among the best.
King Albert by a landslide today.

By: jonny5

jonny5 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:46:52 +0000

I think you’re giving Howard a raw deal here Bill. He had the most RBI’s in the MLB, tied with Fielder, 3rd highest HR in the MLB and he’s on the top ten list for fielding first base. Not too shabby if you ask me. Aren’t these categories which score runs count or is it Just BA??? I’d take the runs scored over BA, I’ve seen guys over .300 with only 60 rbi up for MVP. Can you compare value to someone who hits in over 140 runs but has a lower BA???

By: aceshigh99

aceshigh99 — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:38:58 +0000

Albert Pujols’ stats are, in a word, breath-taking.
As far as I’m concerned, he torpedoes A-Rod completely out of the water and is a far better player.
And yes, for the record, I am an A-Rod/Yankees hater, but I’m not irrational…A-Rod is an incredibly talented ballplayer, but in my opinion, he’s only second-best in terms of greatest ballplayer over the the past 15 years.
Pujols may not have the power numbers, but he smokes A-Rod in just about every other category.

By: Robby

Robby — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:24:45 +0000

Congratulations Albert! Classy player, an outstanding person playing for a great organization with the proudest fans!

By: Bill@TDS

Bill@TDS — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:21:04 +0000

Wow, only a passing mention of Utley? Through August, I thought he was actually the deserving MVP (though Pujols still would’ve run away with it). After that, of course, Pujols raked while Utley (and HRam) tanked. My pretend ballot went
1. Pujols
2. Ramirez
3. Utley
4. Fielder
5. Zimmerman
6. Gonzalez
7. Tulowitzki
8. Howard
9. Sandoval
10. Lee
Though you could easily swap H-Ram and Utley. It’ll be interesting to see if he inexcusably finishes behind Ryan Howard for like the fourth straight year.

By: Mark Runsvold

Mark Runsvold — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:18:10 +0000

Don’t speak too soon, Craig. Some nerd might swing this thing for Javier Vazquez.

By: chris

chris — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:47:53 +0000

Actually, the Cardinals finished 86-76 in 2008, so it wasn’t a losing team. They were in the hunt for the division until Aug-Sept when the Brewers and Cubs pulled away.