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The Phillies are turning into the Yankees

Dec 11, 2009, 9:26 AM EDT

That’s what Tom Verducci at SI is saying in light of their “aggressive” pursuit of Roy Halladay, the prize for whom they currently stand as the front runner.  He quotes Brewers’ GM Doug Melvin as saying that between the Halladay stuff and some of their other recent moves, the Phillies are “creating a powerhouse” in the NL, raising the bar for other teams just like the Yankees have raised the bar in the American League.

Or maybe the Red Sox. Says Verducci: “The Phillies represent the biggest growth brand in the baseball
industry, similar to how the Red Sox began to rise in 2003 under new
ownership.”  All that’s missing, it seems, is an equally aggressive and astute rival. As for now, the Mets are occasionally aggressive, but not all that astute. The Braves are the opposite.  The Marlins never seem all that interested in contending for more than a year at a time before tearing it all down and  the Nats need a lot more time.

Will this eventually lead to a rise in the NL’s fortunes?  Maybe too early to say, but we can say this: right now they stand as the favorites to land Halladay, and that’s without even putting their top prospects like Kyle Drabek on the table. At least not yet.  Verducci says that Philly is even exploring bringing in a third team to the deal. A deal they very obviously want to make happen. And that Roy Halladay wants to make happen too, according to various reports.

Halladay-Lee-Hamels as the top three. A lineup chock full of All-Stars. Maybe a new closer in John Smoltz.  Can anyone say Yankees vs. Phillies, part II?    

  1. ManWithBrain - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:02 PM

    They’re only comparing the two teams right now, not since the beginning of baseball. Take a pill, drink a beer, or something. Why can’t Yankees fans just gracefully take the championships, smile, and feel good? Always trying to tear down other teams. You’d think with all the banners you wouldn’t be so defensive and soft-skinned.

  2. jamie - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:06 PM

    Alex, Victorino was not a home grown talent. He was a Rule 5 pick up from the dodgers. Werth, the dodgers gave up on him after he broke his wrist. when aquired he was basicly “Free” or a no risk pick up.
    I am a phillies fan and have been for the last 32 years. I think this is great… But, as a phillies fan I get a little nervous when they start spending and tinkering. Bottom line is the Phils are not the Yankees. They dont have the culture of winning like the “evil empire” does.
    I am both excited and nervous for 2010. Let’s go Phillies… onto October!

  3. ManWithBrain - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:07 PM

    Geezus dude, you really need to get on with your life.
    So much for winning gracefully.
    Remind me again…how many of those 27 rings are on your finger?

  4. ManWithBrain - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:11 PM

    Geezus, my man. Somebody needs a nap.
    I didn’t realize you had so much personal investment in a baseball team. What exactly is your title with the team again?

  5. jamie - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:18 PM

    Alex,
    I have your back, Kid. These yankees “fans” (similar to cockroach cowboys fans that just seem to come out of the wood work) are always beating their chest about “27″. Give it a rest, 20 of them came before most of you were born.
    Phillies Home Grown:
    Howard, Utley, Rollins, Ruiz, Haap, Hamels, Madson, (2 MVP’s, 1 WS MVP, 2 NLCS MVP’s, 1 ROY, 10 Silver Sluggers, and 7 gold golves)

  6. Brian - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:33 PM

    yeah ok right huge difference. I can see a sore loser philly fan from a mile away. Lets see. Homegrow. Jeter, Mariano, posada, Andy pettite, Cano, Joba, Hughes, and A-Rod was a trade. end of story.

  7. Alex - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:35 PM

    Thanks bud. I was waiting for the Phils fans to read the article. I agree with the Cowboys comparison. Same lines about previous championships instead of a relevant discussion. I know Shane was a rule 5, but I consider that homegrown when choosing between FA sigings or homegrown.
    The amazing thing is the lack of respect Yankees fans give the Phillies. They freaking missed the playoffs last year and we won the whole damn thing and went to six games this year and show no signs of slowing down. I personally am enjoying the building rivalry but still have respect for other good teams….Amazing.

  8. Alex - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:42 PM

    Nobody is disputing that Brian. But Hughes and Cano suck and Joba is a failed starter. A-Rod was a salary dump (not unlike Lee, but not nearly the same extent and the Yankees were the ONLY team that could have taken that on….maybe the Red Sox but they belong in this conversation just as much). Congrats, you have two relevant homegrown guys. Check the stats from Jamie’s homegrown post #55 to see what we’re talking about.

  9. Church of the Perpetually Outraged - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:45 PM

    Is that list supposed to be impressive? Howard and Utley are obvious stars, jury is still out on Hamel, but really, you are already taking credit for one rookie (Happ), a bullpen guy (Madsen)and a mediocre hitting catcher in Ruiz?
    Creating a list of homegrown talent and refusing to see how many home grown players the yanks have (either via the draft or trades) makes you just as ignorant as the Yankee fans who refuse to see how good the Phillies are.

  10. Alex - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:53 PM

    Don’t forget Burrell who although didnt hit too well in the WS last year was a huge part of the teams success and Myers who imploded this year but had a couple of major turning points of the playoffs last year (Sabathia at bat and all the hits against LA). Those are two home grown guys also…………..Either way, this is getting a bit tiresome…..Amaro is doing a great job….both teams are great and I look forward to Part II next October. Go Phils.

  11. Church of the Perpetually Outraged - Dec 11, 2009 at 2:54 PM

    Nobody is disputing that Brian. But Hughes and Cano suck and Joba is a failed starter. A-Rod was a salary dump (not unlike Lee, but not nearly the same extent and the Yankees were the ONLY team that could have taken that on….maybe the Red Sox but they belong in this conversation just as much). Congrats, you have two relevant homegrown guys. Check the stats from Jamie’s homegrown post #55 to see what we’re talking about.

    Hilarious, absolutely hilarious.
    Comparison of stats:
    SS = from Jeter/Posada/Cano 9 vs 10 for the Phillies (add Arod and it’s 18 vs 10)
    GG = 4 for Jeter vs 3 for Rollins, none of the other Phillies you mention have any, not sure where 7 came from (again, add 2 for Arod)
    MVP = Ryan Howard has the only legitimate MVP here as Rollins winning was a farce (HanRam was far better, its not even close). Jeter got robbed the year Morneau won, but even still it’s 1-0 Phillies (unless you add Arod in, then 3-1 Yanks)
    ROY: 1-1
    NLCS/WS MVP are immaterial.

  12. Alex - Dec 11, 2009 at 3:06 PM

    I think on this thread I have said Jeter is great 3 times now….again…NO ONE IS DISPUTING THAT. The point we are talking about is THIS YEAR. The Phillies group revolves around its home grown talent as their stars. The Yankees didnt win the World Series this year because of home grown talent….that is the point CPO. Besides Jeter, their stars were bought…for THIS years team! Yankees have a great team this year and deserved to win based on who showed up in the WS. Wow this has really gone off the tracks from the original point.

  13. kmark2323 - Dec 11, 2009 at 3:15 PM

    Victorino doesn’t have a GG? or Utley?
    Rollins was by far the MVP that year, he carried the Phils for most of that season. He scored the game winning run 49 times that year. He got on base to start an inning that produced the game winning run 40 times that year. GG as well. Ramirez carried nothing for the Marlins.

  14. DiamondDuq - Dec 11, 2009 at 3:22 PM

    So when the Phillies eventually pay Howard, Utley, Rollins and Hamels the long-term money they deserve as the Yankees did with Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada, and have a payroll approaching $200 million with the $20+ million/year contracts of Lee and possibly Halladay as well as the $10 million/year contract of Ibanez they’re going to somehow not be like the Yankees? Let us not overlook Brad Lidge, another guy who was traded for but is making $12 million/year. I just fail to see how giving up prospects and then paying guys free agent money is somehow better than simply signing them and holding onto prospects? You Phillie fans must have some awkward method of math that the rest of the world doesn’t comprehend and allows you to overlook the actual numbers.

  15. Old Gator - Dec 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM

    >>How many do you have?
    Same two that you have. I was at the first game in 1993, and recall Scott Pose’s catch like it was yesterday. I was at Al Leiter’s no-hitter. I was at every single home playoff and world series game in both 1997 and 2003, at the stadium party in 1997 after the series, the parade down Flagler in ’97 and at the bandshell in Bayfront Park for the party in 2003 – when Jeffrey Loria promised us all, with a straight face, “there will be no dismantling.”
    Right.
    And I went to about thirty games or so a year until last year, when I got fed up and went on strike – where I remain – over Loria’s penny pinching, salary dumping, his destruction of the confidence of Andrew Miller when the kid clearly wasn’t any more ready for the show than Nuke La Loosh, and his inability to adjust his ego to that of a manager who got twice the mileage out of his odd assortment of castoffs, EYPs and rule 5 reclamation projects than anyone could reasonably have expected of him – not to mention the expectations created by a 2003 squad for which Loria and Beinfest take credit but which still had Dave Dombrowski’s fingerprints all over it. I also find it especially amusing that our local almost-newspapers were reporting in October that Loria was dissatisfied with the results that Fat Freddy got out of this K-Mart team Loria handed him, apparently unable to realize that he is burdening his current lapdog manager with the results his former, and much cannier, independently spirited manager managed to achieve.

  16. jamie - Dec 11, 2009 at 3:51 PM

    this discussion will go one forever…
    Yankees fans. Your team is good, really good. You have many great players. There is no doubt about that.
    All we phillies fans are asking for is a little respect. winning 27 titles has obviously jaded you folks to how it feels, to be a fan that has been laughed at, maligned, and tortured. And then to experience the success of the past 3-4 years… the excitement to see you team rise to the top of the league and to do it the hard way. To invest your time, your money, your life into a team. Lest you forget the 1980′s for the yankees? Not good times…
    So in closing, as of now no one in MLB baseball or professional sports can touch the yankees and their winning tradition. We love our team, as you love yours. As fans we are just asking for acknowledgement and respect.
    See you in october, again!

  17. DiamondDuq - Dec 11, 2009 at 4:13 PM

    No one is disrespecting or denying the Phillies anything but as the article is titled “The Phillies are turning into the Yankees” and to deny it is ludicrous. Yes, the Phillies have many “homegrown” players but they’re not even sniffing a WS appearance without Lee, Werth, Victorino or Ibanez, none of which were “homegrown”, I’d throw in Lidge and his $12 million/year but he’s garbage. Certainly the Phillies aren’t on the spending crazed level of the Yankees but 40% of the Yankees payroll is “homegrown” talent that was locked up with big, long-term deals that rewarded them for winning 4 WS titles. When the Phils decide to do the same with Utley, Howard, Rollins and Hamels, mind you Howard’s current deal expires after the 2011 season and was only to buy out his arbitration years, they’ll be in a similar position to the Yankees, especially considering the resigning of Lee and potential trade and signing of Halladay. Congrats to the Phillies but there’s no denying, legitimately at least, that they’re not turning in the the NL’s version of the Yankees.

  18. Florida - Dec 11, 2009 at 4:28 PM

    Then be proud of what you have and celebrate those two WORLD SERIES WINS. There are eight teams in MLB that have never won a championship.

  19. YankeesfanLen - Dec 11, 2009 at 4:44 PM

    I think this is as respectful as any dialogue can be among fans of very competitive teams. And it seems like it could go on with it for quite a while with valid and disputed points.
    But please, Phillie fans, do not think we just drag out our history when we spend money and win. I have been deemed almost a lunatic around here by still claiming the Yanks can pull off a playoff berth based on where we stand at the All Star Break.(’06,’07).
    Maybe the best we can say is it’ll be a long ’10 season, see you in October (sniw SW 72). Let me have a little fun.

  20. Ben Fisher - Dec 11, 2009 at 5:19 PM

    If true, it would be a repeat of the Yankees/BROOKLYN DODGERS of yore. As a Phillies fan, I would love to see that come to pass fpr the forseeable future, with one basic difference. The PHILLIES be the champions, the Yankees mouth the old chant, “wait til next year”.

  21. willmose - Dec 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM

    I hate to spoil the Phillie fans wet dreams, but the Braves have the pitching. When in doubt, pitching is the way to bet.

  22. yankfansince67 - Dec 11, 2009 at 5:42 PM

    The Phillie are, and have been for several years now, a really good team. Not just talent, but heart, and the confidence to know how to win. As a New Yorker who follows the Mets closely, too, it has been obvious for particularly the last three seasons. A team that knows how to win.
    When I became a Yankee fan in 67 (when they finished with 72 wins, less than a hundred homers and less than a million fans) I waited quite a while for them to win a championship. Steinbrenner bought the team for 10 million from CBS and built an empire.
    All other teams benefit from the Yankees success from payroll taxes to revenue sharing, not to mention the considerable gate they bring in everywhere.
    In the old days, the chant was “rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for IBM”
    But older fans do not have the same sense of entitlement that the newer ones do.
    Every fan wants his team to go out and spend the money but true Yankee fans have mocked some of the attempts at buying the championship over the years.
    There have been fans looking for the Yankees to sign Holliday, get Halladay, etc and it does become a bit much.
    But the run from 96-00 was an example of not just spending but building a team through the farm, trades and a handful of free agents.
    The Mets have spent a lot and have little to show for it, the Yanks did not have success from 1980 to 1994.
    Shouting “27″ does not help but Yankee fans get tired of hearing “you bought the pennant” all the time, though its easier to deal with than hearing “all that money and you didn’t win”
    But, yes, the willingness to spend so much can be a little embarrassing even to Yankee fans. What do we do? picket the team? “Let’s not go, they’re too good”
    As someone pointed out, it’s the younger fans that have never known losing that think they know it all and bash you over the head with it. If you have never known losing seasons, are you really a fan?
    Merry Christmas everybody! Here’s to the Phillies getting Halladay so no one in the AL does!

  23. Old Gator - Dec 11, 2009 at 6:09 PM

    True, but with perhaps a couple of exceptions those other eight teams are currently trying to win one for their fans, and the Feesh’s ownership plainly isn’t. And frankly, even though my kids got excellent educations, did well by them and moved on to bigger and better things back in the days when boomtimes supported an educational system that even then was low on the national scale, the half a billion dollars we’re currently wasting on a playpen for that cheapskate clown Loria while our school system implodes does kinda wear on me. Pardon my pride having fallen. There is a difference between a fan and a groupie.

  24. Andrew - Dec 11, 2009 at 6:13 PM

    I only read about half of the comments so I apologize if its already been said.
    I am a lifelong Phillies fan, born and raised in the area. Aside from the campaign in the 90′s that left us unfulfilled thanks to Joe Carter this is the best baseball anyone under 35 has seen from Philadelphia. As was stated earlier we have a short window of opportunity and management sees it and is reacting to it. This only excites me more.
    As to the Phillies vs Yankees, the Yankee fans are correct, they cant be compared. For the amount of money the Yankees spend every year the Philadelphia management would be slaughtered for not bringing home a trophy every other year. The Yankees get away with it because they can always fall back on the number 27 even if 23 of them have absolutely no relevance. So enjoy Yankees, its about time you acted like your payroll.

  25. Florida - Dec 12, 2009 at 1:28 AM

    I don’t even like the Marlins, just stating the facts.

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