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Halladay trade waits on extension, other details

Dec 14, 2009, 6:34 PM EDT

ESPN’s Jayson Stark, who still has some of the best Phillies sources in the business from his days in Philadelphia, appears to have the best handle on the Roy Halladay trade at the moment.
According to his sources, the deal isn’t yet done. Besides the need for Halladay to agree to an extension — reportedly in the three-year, $60 million range — the Jays and Phillies are still fighting over a prospect.
It breaks down like this at the moment:
Phillies: Roy Halladay, Mariners prospect, Mariners prospect
Mariners: Cliff Lee
Blue Jays: Phillippe Aumont (20, from Sea), Travis d’Arnaud (20, from Phil), Phillies prospect
Outfielder Michael Taylor might be that last prospect going to Toronto, though Stark believes the Jays are holding out for fellow outfielder Domonic Brown, the Phillies’ top position prospect. Taylor is no slouch — he ranks as one of top 10 outfield prospects in the minors — but it makes sense that the Phillies would want more. Aumont was turned into a reliever last year, and he’d be an injury risk if thrust back into the rotation. He could be a dominant late-game reliever, but he’s hardly a sure thing. D’Arnaud, a 2007 supplemental first-round pick, has been something of a disappointment and doesn’t currently project as a starting catcher in the majors, though he’s just 20 and there’s plenty of time for that to change.
There’s been little word about the other Mariners properties in the deal. The assumption when the reports leaked was that Brandon Morrow would be involved, and he could make sense in Philadelphia as a setup man. However, if Stark is right that it’s prospects going to the Phillies, then he wouldn’t qualify. Reliever Shawn Kelley also doesn’t fit the prospect description, but he’s another pitcher the Phillies should be interested in. Young outfielder Michael Saunders would be a nice piece for Toronto, but not for the Phillies. Carlos Triunfel’s upside would play anywhere.
That there’s still so much we don’t know makes it too early to name winners and losers here. However, I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to suggest that the Mariners did a great job managing to acquire Cliff Lee when they have so few star prospects to deal from. Also, I’ll be very disappointed with the Jays’ haul if they only end up with Aumont, Taylor and D’Arnaud.

  1. APBA Guy - Dec 14, 2009 at 6:45 PM

    I hope the 3rd prospect going to the Blue Jays is named D’Artagnan. It looks like Toronto wants to see a remake of the 3 Musketeers.

  2. s/k - Dec 14, 2009 at 6:53 PM

    the phillies are phenominal

  3. Sportsnut - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:00 PM

    That’s all we get for Halladay? I agree with Pouliot…that’s extremely disappointing. Almost every rumour leading up this one was better than this.

  4. Youvegotit - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:06 PM

    I hope the Jays get even less.

  5. Justin M. - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:07 PM

    I have a bad feeling that Toronto is going to come out hosed in this deal. They need to get Triunfel in that to make it good on their part, bare minimum they need to get Taylor and a young arm (but not necessarily a prospect). I just have a bad feeling neither scenario pans out and they’ll end up with just 3-4 mid tier prospects, at which point you almost feel they would have been better off taking the Phillies offer in the middle of the season last year.
    Mariners are going to come away winners most likely, especially if they are able to keep Triunfel and Morrow (even though Morrow doesn’t have the luster he once had as a rising star).
    I think the Phillies come away ahead if they are able to sign Halladay long term, especially since word on the street is that Lee was going to test out free agency one way or the other.

  6. lindagigi - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:26 PM

    why would the phills give up cliff lee?

  7. Bobby Singh - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:31 PM

    They gave up Lee and prospects for Halladay who essentially will only produce just at good or only a smigent better as Lee did in this past playoffs. Doesnt make sense if im a philly fan

  8. SDTom - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:34 PM

    The Blue Jays seem to be making the same mistake as the Twins did when they traded Johan Santana. If you can only get mid-tier prospects now, why not hang on to him until at least the trading deadline? It’s not like you could get much worse of a package (since you are already getting nothing), the chance that the Yankees or Red Sox need a starting pitcher to make the post-season, or the slim chance that the Blue Jays are competing for a playoff spot.

  9. Gelardia - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM

    I don’t get why the Phils are giving up Lee. Sure you only have him for 1 more year but with him & Halladay in your rotation, that’s as close to a guarantee for a World Series championship as you can get. And isn’t that the point?

  10. Andrew - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:49 PM

    @ SDTom Halladay has stated that he wont approve a trade after the start of spring training.
    It makes sense for the Phillies the more I read about it. Lee is on record saying he wants market value next season(23 mil/yr or so) and had we not completed this trade Halladay would have joined him on the FA market. The two competeing against one another on the market would drive up the prices. The Phils locked one of the two up for slightly under market value(one year at 15m and then 3 more years with a 20 mil/yr average).
    Another small note is that the Phillies gained a top of the rotation right handed pitcher which will compliment Cole Hamels much better than Cliff Lee could. Dont get me wrong Im a huge Lee fan and I will cheer him anywhere he goes, who knows maybe well see him back next season.

  11. drdug - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:53 PM

    If the Phillies give up Lee for Halladay, Reuben Amaro should be canned. The reason the Phils lost to NY was pitching. They cannot count on Hamels after his miserable year, so they need another Ace to join them. If they can make a deal to keep Lee, Hamels and get Halladay, then I will change my thoughts about Amaro’s negotiating abilities. If they cannot, they will not repeat – guaranteed!

  12. Old Gator - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:54 PM

    May I humbly suggest that the Feather Lice are going to make sure this deal goes through in order to move Halladay safely out of their own division? May I also suggest that they somehow managed to communicate, in their capacity as the new third world power in the division, that they would rather go down the tubes next winter completely and let Halladay walk rather than see him made Borg or become a Beanbag? As if, for example, they think that they’ll be in any shape to compete for a postseason birth within the ambit of whatever Halladay’s extension with the Phillies might be anyway?
    Perhaps it’ll be tonic to be rid of Halladay and have him in the National League at the same time, but going up against the Borg and Beanbags either one, the blue ghosts of the Rogers Center are still going to look like the Polish cavalry taking on the Panzers in 1939.

  13. Dave from T.O - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:56 PM

    The Jays will go down as one of the decade’s biggest trade losers. I am not surprised. An organization that stuck with Riccardi for so long must be an even bigger loser with its new manager – if this deal is true the guy should be axed before game day. What a bloody mess. Did the teachers take over and screw this organization like they did the Maple Leafs?

  14. SDTom - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:57 PM

    Santana said the same thing (that he wouldn’t approve a trade after Spring Training). However, I don’t believe that. I find it hard to believe that anyone (other than Brian Giles) would turn down a trade to the Yankees or Red Sox for the final few months of the season. My point is that his trade value can’t possibly be any worse at the trading deadline than it is now. The Twins traded Santana in the exact same situation as the Blue Jays and Halladay and got totally burned — you would think that the Blue Jays should have learned their lesson.

  15. boomp4 - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:58 PM

    The Phillies gave up nothinbg to get Cliff Lee and now they want to give up Lee and nothing to upgrade to Halladay. Make the Phillies pay for once!

  16. Tribe Fan - Dec 14, 2009 at 7:59 PM

    I have followed Lee game by game over the last two years. The Phils are chumps if they trade him. Do they want to win another championship. They won’t as long as they hold onto the pounting Cole Hamels when he is not the ace of the staff. Hamels proved he can’t stand the competition and share the spotlight.

  17. Andrew - Dec 14, 2009 at 8:09 PM

    Hamels will be fine, he had a common down year after the world series MVP season. If anything trading the left handed Lee for the right handed Halladay is a smart move by the Phillies brass.
    We essentially gave up prospects RHP Carrasco, C Marson, IF Donald, RHP Knapp and now OF Brown or Taylor for Roy Halladay.

  18. Hetzel - Dec 14, 2009 at 8:12 PM

    Wow. The Phillies gave up Lee because he was not interested in the extension they offered. He wants big, free agent bucks so off he goes. The Phillies get Halliday and lock him up for 3-5 years by the morning—WOW!
    Toronto gets……………..hosed. What the heck are they thinking? Why not take the Aybar, Saunders and a prospect package? You take a AA pitcher who was moved to the bullpen in AA last year. A single A catching prospect, and not even the top OF prospect of the Phillies??????
    The new GM is a moron. The only thing that makes sense is that he wants to get fired and the heck out of Toronto before the Holidays.
    The Phillies GM should be the MLB executive of the year.

  19. ahumanbeing - Dec 14, 2009 at 8:14 PM

    Lee is in the last year of his contract. The Phils are not guaranteed to be able to re-sign him, and certainly not at the price they have him now. So they are trading Lee for one year for Halladay for 3+. If you think that as pitchers they are equal (I tend to think Halladay is a bit better–AND he’s moving out of the slugging AL East), the Phils are getting quality pitching for a greater amount of time.

  20. Jon - Dec 14, 2009 at 8:17 PM

    So the Jays are willing to accept 3 maybe players for Halladay, but if they traded with the Yanks or Red Sox, they would have wanted far more?
    What kind of insanity is this? The Jays could get a much better deal for Halladay from any of 10 or 15 teams.
    If they want to unload Halladay, what’s wrong with a straight-up deal for Cliff Lee?
    Something’s screwy here.

  21. Twokegs - Dec 14, 2009 at 8:22 PM

    Halladay traded for this garbage is a disgrace! If the Phillies get him for this swill Anthopolous should be axed asap. Jeez!
    One of the best pitchers in baseball deserves at least one rock solid blue chipper probably two. Who cares if we get a Canadian, nobody in the stands cares, put a winning team on the field. Jack up the payroll to at least 120 mill and start trying to win for once!!!

  22. Ridge - Dec 14, 2009 at 8:49 PM

    I think the Felix Hernandez and Cliff Lee combo will be a nice one for Seattle. Now, if they can get some offense they might be able to challenge for a playoff spot…

  23. ChooseFreeWill - Dec 14, 2009 at 9:00 PM

    I agree… why would the Phillies pop 60 Million for Halladay and give up Lee… We (Phillies fans) fell in love with Cliff Lee… I don’t think Holladay would have performed any better than Lee did for the Phils… Ruben, what is going on inside of that cocanut of yours? Halladay, Lee and Hamels… Now that is what we need. Perhaps Lee wants to leave.

  24. Bill-Sonora - Dec 14, 2009 at 9:09 PM

    Isnt Cliff Lee their best pitcher and an even better pitcher in the playoffs?
    Thats the guy right, because I don’t know why you would trade that type of player.
    Wow.

  25. Mike - Dec 14, 2009 at 9:11 PM

    Boy JP Riccardi must be thinking “I got fired for not getting these guys for Roy?” People can hate on the Yanks and Sox all they want, but just like the Santana deal they offered more than what these teams are taking for Hall of Fame pitchers.

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