Comments on: Halladay trade waits on extension, other details

By: Sandy Walde

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By: Deese Knutts

Deese Knutts — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:55:57 +0000

So, if the Phils give up Dominic Brown in the trade, they’re pretty giving up what the Blue Jays asked for last year, but losing Cliff Lee for pretty much nothing. I guess they want to win, but not if it cuts too far into the profit margin. I guess the fans who helped sell all those tickets and buy all that Phillies merchandise don’t deserve that much. Oh well, if they don’t win, they can always just blame the Yankees like every other team does.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:38:21 +0000

I understand people are upset that Lee is leaving but dont forget that even though both players have won 1 CY Young award Holladay was nominated for 4 others that he did not win. That means he was in the top 5 in his league for 5 years since hes been in the majors. 6 times an All-Star. This guy can flat out pitch. And in case I havent sold you yet hes done this in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox.
Im a Phillies fan before all else and I honestly feel that pretty much whatever we gave up to get this righty to lead our rotation should send Amaro to prison for theft. We got Lee for dirt cheap and then turned that into 4 years of Roy ‘Doc’ Holladay for only one prospect more.

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:24:25 +0000

The reason they can’t wait until the trade deadline is because Halladay has an iron-clad no-trade clause and has said that he will not talk about or negotiate his contract and will not accept being traded once the season starts. So, they are going to repeat the same scenerio as the Twins did with Santana, but because they waited half a season too long, not because they should wait half a season more.

By: BigJer

BigJer — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:04:57 +0000

What people on this board don’t seem to realize or accept is that baseball, like every other major sport, is about money. Miami is willing to give up Dan Uggla, their second baseman and top player, because he would be making $20,000,000 next year and the Marlins entire payroll is $40,000,000. Other clubs face similar problems.
As long as you’re filling your ballpark as the Phillies are doing, locking up a Roy Halliday for $15,000,000 for three or four years is smart business while Cliff Lee has only one year on his contract before becoming a free agent and will more than likely be demanding $25,000,000 or more. And I would think that the two are roughly equivalent in capability although Lee, after a fantastic three or four games at the start of the year, really went south for a couple of games although he made up for it in the playoffs and the series. Bottom line – a great deal for the Phillies, and they know and revel in that fact.

By: cougar222

cougar222 — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:38:16 +0000

The Jays need Happ to be Happy with this deal!!

By: Nancy L

Nancy L — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:02:20 +0000

Please – keep Lee!!! He was a good fit with the team and in the clubhouse. You want a winning team? Then don’t get rid of those who “brung you to the dance” last year – Lee. OK to get Halladay if you want him, but keep Lee and Hamels. PLEASE!!!

By: FJRinLA

FJRinLA — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:57:39 +0000

Actually, the Jays were holding out for more from Boston or NYY because they would have to play those guys.
I think they’re happy to take less from any other team willing to pay Halladay that is not the Red Sox or the Yankees….and they’re probably smart to do so.
The Yankees are calling them now because they see how little they’ve accepted; but NYers are probably wasting their time since that’s the point. Toronto would need and request more from NY or Boston than from Philly since they’d be making a division rival stronger by trading him to the Yankees or Red Sox.

By: Matt

Matt — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:43:50 +0000

Look the jays probably wouldn’t have gotten much more. Teams arnt going to give everything for one guy. These prospects seem decent. Did anyone honestly think lind would turn out to hit 30 homers, or when rios came in the league to completely bomb. You don’t really know what you have until you wait. Baseball prospects take the longest in any sport to develop you never know what you have. Look at Werth on the phillies we gave up on him, or carpenter on st louis.

By: Phillyfan4ever

Phillyfan4ever — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:36:22 +0000

Being a long time philadelphia sports fan, it doesnt surprise me how short cited and/or idiotic the other philadelphia fans’ comments are on this board and most boards.
Lee is gone after this year – hence phils would get nothing for him. He wants a 5-6 year deal at Sabbathia money. The years is what worries me and the phillies. Too long to be tied up w an aging pitcher at a big salary.
Holladay is willing to come for a discount and only 3 years. its a no brainer. And he is a power/strikeout pitcher who can go on 3 days rest when you need him in the playoffs.
The idiotic comments about trading Hamels are just that — idiotic. The kid was world series and playoff mvp just over a year ago. he is young, signed for years and cheap. trading him would be the dumbest move in franchise history.
Good deal for phils long term – especially if they get to keep drabek and brown.

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:22:44 +0000

I would agree that it would make more sense to offer up Hamels or Happ and retain Lee. If the goal is a championship it has become mandatory to have 2 guys that are both capable of Cy Young numbers. That is the new reality in baseball when playing the American Leagues top teams. Seattle is not giving up anything of note so the idea that you give them Lee even if for only a season makes no sense. Yes I know Lee wants big bucks like Halladay. Guess what the Phils can afford it. They are selling out the stadium and have become the toast of Philly. Giving up lee means you believe either Hamels will come back (no guarantee) or that Happ will continue to develop (he was lukewarm at best in the playoffs this year or that one of your farm pitchers is ready to move up. You would really need Hamels and Happ to be spot on to have a chance to contend. Perhaps they are happy to just get to the playoffs next year.

By: REALMAN

REALMAN — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:37:53 +0000

yes lee’s contract is expiring next year… he has showed the baseball world he is a top notch playoff pitcher…. i mean almost perfect…in my book that says alot… halladay will be great also. but he has showed me 0 in playoff expierence ,,, i say it comes back to haunt the phillies as halladay has increasing age problems and occasionally does get hurt…LEE was a perfect fit.,.. lefties are worth prime bucks in the market place… seatle would do well..look at last 2 world series winners hammels and sabathia.. followed by a gutty lee preformances and petite..you gonna argues josh beckett.. well he was young so be it

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:11:02 +0000

Boy JP Riccardi must be thinking “I got fired for not getting these guys for Roy?” People can hate on the Yanks and Sox all they want, but just like the Santana deal they offered more than what these teams are taking for Hall of Fame pitchers.

By: Bill-Sonora

Bill-Sonora — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:09:09 +0000

Isnt Cliff Lee their best pitcher and an even better pitcher in the playoffs?
Thats the guy right, because I don’t know why you would trade that type of player.
Wow.

By: ChooseFreeWill

ChooseFreeWill — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:00:28 +0000

I agree… why would the Phillies pop 60 Million for Halladay and give up Lee… We (Phillies fans) fell in love with Cliff Lee… I don’t think Holladay would have performed any better than Lee did for the Phils… Ruben, what is going on inside of that cocanut of yours? Halladay, Lee and Hamels… Now that is what we need. Perhaps Lee wants to leave.

By: Ridge

Ridge — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:49:21 +0000

I think the Felix Hernandez and Cliff Lee combo will be a nice one for Seattle. Now, if they can get some offense they might be able to challenge for a playoff spot…

By: Twokegs

Twokegs — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:22:02 +0000

Halladay traded for this garbage is a disgrace! If the Phillies get him for this swill Anthopolous should be axed asap. Jeez!
One of the best pitchers in baseball deserves at least one rock solid blue chipper probably two. Who cares if we get a Canadian, nobody in the stands cares, put a winning team on the field. Jack up the payroll to at least 120 mill and start trying to win for once!!!

By: Jon

Jon — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:17:03 +0000

So the Jays are willing to accept 3 maybe players for Halladay, but if they traded with the Yanks or Red Sox, they would have wanted far more?
What kind of insanity is this? The Jays could get a much better deal for Halladay from any of 10 or 15 teams.
If they want to unload Halladay, what’s wrong with a straight-up deal for Cliff Lee?
Something’s screwy here.

By: ahumanbeing

ahumanbeing — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:14:20 +0000

Lee is in the last year of his contract. The Phils are not guaranteed to be able to re-sign him, and certainly not at the price they have him now. So they are trading Lee for one year for Halladay for 3+. If you think that as pitchers they are equal (I tend to think Halladay is a bit better–AND he’s moving out of the slugging AL East), the Phils are getting quality pitching for a greater amount of time.

By: Hetzel

Hetzel — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:12:22 +0000

Wow. The Phillies gave up Lee because he was not interested in the extension they offered. He wants big, free agent bucks so off he goes. The Phillies get Halliday and lock him up for 3-5 years by the morning—WOW!
Toronto gets……………..hosed. What the heck are they thinking? Why not take the Aybar, Saunders and a prospect package? You take a AA pitcher who was moved to the bullpen in AA last year. A single A catching prospect, and not even the top OF prospect of the Phillies??????
The new GM is a moron. The only thing that makes sense is that he wants to get fired and the heck out of Toronto before the Holidays.
The Phillies GM should be the MLB executive of the year.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:09:00 +0000

Hamels will be fine, he had a common down year after the world series MVP season. If anything trading the left handed Lee for the right handed Halladay is a smart move by the Phillies brass.
We essentially gave up prospects RHP Carrasco, C Marson, IF Donald, RHP Knapp and now OF Brown or Taylor for Roy Halladay.

By: Tribe Fan

Tribe Fan — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:59:26 +0000

I have followed Lee game by game over the last two years. The Phils are chumps if they trade him. Do they want to win another championship. They won’t as long as they hold onto the pounting Cole Hamels when he is not the ace of the staff. Hamels proved he can’t stand the competition and share the spotlight.

By: boomp4

boomp4 — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:58:19 +0000

The Phillies gave up nothinbg to get Cliff Lee and now they want to give up Lee and nothing to upgrade to Halladay. Make the Phillies pay for once!

By: SDTom

SDTom — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:57:45 +0000

Santana said the same thing (that he wouldn’t approve a trade after Spring Training). However, I don’t believe that. I find it hard to believe that anyone (other than Brian Giles) would turn down a trade to the Yankees or Red Sox for the final few months of the season. My point is that his trade value can’t possibly be any worse at the trading deadline than it is now. The Twins traded Santana in the exact same situation as the Blue Jays and Halladay and got totally burned — you would think that the Blue Jays should have learned their lesson.

By: Dave from T.O

Dave from T.O — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:56:42 +0000

The Jays will go down as one of the decade’s biggest trade losers. I am not surprised. An organization that stuck with Riccardi for so long must be an even bigger loser with its new manager – if this deal is true the guy should be axed before game day. What a bloody mess. Did the teachers take over and screw this organization like they did the Maple Leafs?

By: Old Gator

Old Gator — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:54:52 +0000

May I humbly suggest that the Feather Lice are going to make sure this deal goes through in order to move Halladay safely out of their own division? May I also suggest that they somehow managed to communicate, in their capacity as the new third world power in the division, that they would rather go down the tubes next winter completely and let Halladay walk rather than see him made Borg or become a Beanbag? As if, for example, they think that they’ll be in any shape to compete for a postseason birth within the ambit of whatever Halladay’s extension with the Phillies might be anyway?
Perhaps it’ll be tonic to be rid of Halladay and have him in the National League at the same time, but going up against the Borg and Beanbags either one, the blue ghosts of the Rogers Center are still going to look like the Polish cavalry taking on the Panzers in 1939.

By: drdug

drdug — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:53:15 +0000

If the Phillies give up Lee for Halladay, Reuben Amaro should be canned. The reason the Phils lost to NY was pitching. They cannot count on Hamels after his miserable year, so they need another Ace to join them. If they can make a deal to keep Lee, Hamels and get Halladay, then I will change my thoughts about Amaro’s negotiating abilities. If they cannot, they will not repeat – guaranteed!

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:49:37 +0000

@ SDTom Halladay has stated that he wont approve a trade after the start of spring training.
It makes sense for the Phillies the more I read about it. Lee is on record saying he wants market value next season(23 mil/yr or so) and had we not completed this trade Halladay would have joined him on the FA market. The two competeing against one another on the market would drive up the prices. The Phils locked one of the two up for slightly under market value(one year at 15m and then 3 more years with a 20 mil/yr average).
Another small note is that the Phillies gained a top of the rotation right handed pitcher which will compliment Cole Hamels much better than Cliff Lee could. Dont get me wrong Im a huge Lee fan and I will cheer him anywhere he goes, who knows maybe well see him back next season.

By: Gelardia

Gelardia — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:44:04 +0000

I don’t get why the Phils are giving up Lee. Sure you only have him for 1 more year but with him & Halladay in your rotation, that’s as close to a guarantee for a World Series championship as you can get. And isn’t that the point?

By: SDTom

SDTom — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:34:14 +0000

The Blue Jays seem to be making the same mistake as the Twins did when they traded Johan Santana. If you can only get mid-tier prospects now, why not hang on to him until at least the trading deadline? It’s not like you could get much worse of a package (since you are already getting nothing), the chance that the Yankees or Red Sox need a starting pitcher to make the post-season, or the slim chance that the Blue Jays are competing for a playoff spot.