ESPN’s Jayson Stark’s latest has some new twists in the Roy Halladay deal, and they seem to clearly favor the Mariners.
At 6:00 pm, the deal looked like this, according to Stark:
Phillies acquire Roy Halladay, Mariners prospect, Mariners prospect
Mariners acquire Cliff Lee
Blue Jays acquire Phillippe Aumont, Travis d’Arnaud, Phillies prospect (likely OF Michael Taylor)
However, the current deal has no one going from Seattle to Toronto.
Instead, the Mariners are set to acquire Lee from the Phillies for Aumont, a 20-year-old right-handed reliever, and 21-year-old outfielder Tyson Gillies. The Philies will simultaneously acquire Halladay from the Jays for three of their own youngsters: RHP Kyle Drabek, Taylor and D’Arnaud.
Stark said 2009 rookie J.A. Happ was a possibility to be included in Drabek’s place, but Drabek is the much more popular name elsewhere.
So, if this is the deal, then it’d be a stellar move for Seattle. Aumont could well turn into a closer and Gillies is pretty interesting, but to get one of the game’s top five pitchers for those two would be a flat-out steal and it’s incredible that the Phillies couldn’t do better elsewhere.
Things also look a better for the Blue Jays. Drabek isn’t without risk, but he’s one of the game’s top-10 pitching prospects. With his legitimate No. 1 or No. 2 starter potential, he’s a big upgrade from Aumont.
As for the Phillies, well, the price for Halladay is certainly fair, but they’re not getting nearly enough in return for Lee. That’s quite a bit of talent they’re bleeding for what should be a very modest upgrade in 2010. They definitely have their eyes on 2011 here, as Halladay’s extension will be quite a bit more reasonable than what Lee was requesting. Still, I don’t think it was worth sacrificing Drabek’s potential to get the swap done. There should have been a more reasonable deal available if they had let the league know that Lee was up for grabs.
-
- John - Dec 15, 2009 at 7:43 AM
-
So Mark, what makes you think Lee would pass up the Phillies defense for the M’s, considering how much better the Phillies defense has played as of late? Not to mention the run support provided by the second best offense in the league. He wants money, too much money, that is why he won’t resign with the M’s. I am laughing at you.
-
- Curtis - Dec 15, 2009 at 7:53 AM
-
Lee goes to Seattle for a year, comes BACK to Philly in 2011 with a new contract, and Halladay-Lee takes them to the WS.
-
- Logan - Dec 15, 2009 at 8:40 AM
-
This deal makes less and less sense every minute for the Phillies. Originally it was assumed that they went to the Mariners so that they could work out a deal where Drabek, Brown, and Taylor didn’t have to be lost. I understand Lee isn’t going to be under contract after this year and that the Phil’s can’t keep him and Halladay. They should be making a deal solely with Toronto at this point. Deal Drabek and Blanton (or Happ) to keep Cliff and Roy for this year. Let Le walk after the year…or if things go wrong this year…trade Lee at the deadline. I think Ruben Amaro is so gung-ho for getting Halladay that he’s lost focus. Any way you look at this deal the Phillies are on the losing end of this deal.
-
- GBSimons - Dec 15, 2009 at 9:03 AM
-
PCC, Lee was the most dominant starter in the NL last year? Really? I’d imagine Lincecum would get more than just the tokin’ Bay Area vote for that honor.
-
- Johnny - Dec 15, 2009 at 9:05 AM
-
Lee had already stated that he was leaving next year and would not sign an extension (like what Halladay was doing to Toronto)I just hope the Phils don’t include Drabek,Happ or Brown.Seattle gets Lee for 1 yr,he goes free or costs Seattle some crazy crazy money and /or the get draft picks again if he walks.I’m not really sure what Toronot gets out of this unless it’s some major league ready combo (say Happ and Blanton)
-
- dcfan-1212450 - Dec 15, 2009 at 9:09 AM
-
I am surprised nobody stabbed at the author of this article for ignoring the draft pick compinsation plan the Mariners would get if Lee walks after this season. From a Mariners percpective this is a great deal. They get a top 5 pitcher pitching for a new contract. They have the payroll to sign him if they want. They will receive draft picks if he walks. Absolutely this is a steal for Seattle. Everybody remember CC Sebathia and his performance with the Brewers right before he went free agent dont we. Expect more of the same from Lee.
-
- MadMikey - Dec 15, 2009 at 9:09 AM
-
I don’t think the Ms intend to resign Lee, unless he suddenly falls in love with their defense and one of the best pitcher’s parks in the AL. If he leaves, which is what I think they are planning on, they get two decent draft picks that compensate for the two real prospects they sent off…and they free up even more $$ to sign Felix to a long term deal when he becomes free agent eligible. So Seattle gets to see what Lee can do and how far they can take it this season….who knows with all the pieces falling into place, they get to the playoffs and then its a whole new ballgame. Jack Z is the best thing to happen to the Ms since Nintendo paid to keep them in Seattle.
-
- Chris - Dec 15, 2009 at 10:51 AM
-
This deal makes a lot of sense for the Phillies. A couple of things to keep in mind from the Phillies perspective:
1) They replace an ace (Lee) who made clear his intention to test the free agent market next winter, with another ace (Halladay) who they will lock up for multiple years and provides cost certianty. No one knows what the market will be for Lee, and if the Phillies lose him next winter all bets are off. There would be no guarantee that the Phillies would be able to sign either Lee or Halladay next offseason if they are both on the market (for example, see the LA Angels – losing Lackey and now are going to be looking at a lot of second-tier pitchers).
2) The Phillies balance out their starting rotation (if they keep Happ and Blanton). Righty (Halladay), Lefty (Hamels), Righty (Blanton), Lefty (Happ) and a number 5 (take your pick-Moyer, Kendrick, Martinez, Marquis, etc.).
3) Despite losing some top talent in the farm system, the Phillies aren’t trading everyone and they are replenishing the system with the Lee trade.
In a perfect world the Phillies would go into 2010 with a Halladay-Lee-Hamels-Blanton-Happ rotation, that just isn’t feasible. People forget that the Phillies aren’t only paying for the players on the 40 man roster but an entire organization of players, scouts, ballpark staff and others. They’re in the top 10 in terms of on-field salaries, but it’s not a bottomless well.
-
- Brian - Dec 15, 2009 at 11:06 AM
-
Is NBC Actually doing a story on a west coast team???????
And I thought NBC considered Detroit the west coast. At least it’s not another story on how the Giants and jets might make the playoffs. I really hate New York and Boston because of this East coast bias in the media.
-
- mick-7-1961 - Dec 15, 2009 at 11:07 AM
-
If the Mariners land Cliff Lee, it will be a huge boost to an already above average pitching staff. 2010 could be THE year for Seattle baseball.
-
- PhillyPhan - Dec 15, 2009 at 11:08 AM
-
Last year pre-World Series during the Phillie-Jays 1st attempt to make this trade for Halladay, the stick in the mud was that the Phillies wanted to hold on to Drabek. Now they are throwing him in the mix? Maybe they should have done that last year before the Series? Personally, I would have spent the monies and kept Lee and brought in Halladay. Let go of Hamels in a trade and have Halladay, Lee, Happ, Blanton as the starting 4 with Kendrick as a 5th. Not sure why everyone is so crazy about Hamels, especially since Happ pitched better all last year and they are the same age. I just hope Hamels “The Headcase” is not the Hamels on the mound this year for the Phil’s.
-
- mick-7-1961 - Dec 15, 2009 at 11:34 AM
-
You’re right, PhillyPhan…I don’t really understand the logic behind letting Lee loose. The Phillies have a powerhouse core of hitters, good pitching and most likely will again be in the hunt in 2010….Lee is/was well-worth the bucks.
-
- Craig - Dec 15, 2009 at 11:38 AM
-
This IS a steal of a trade for the Mariners.
Assuming Lee does not get injured…
1) If the Mariners are not contenders by the trade deadline, they will receive EVEN MORE in return for Lee than what they just gave up.
2) During a year for which to show off his stuff for free agency, Lee will be a very focused pitcher throughout the season. Plus, he has very valuable postseason and World Series experience.
3) TRIVIA: Most innings pitched last season: Halladay, Hernandez, Lee… Hernandez and Lee will give the Mariners a 1-2 punch for top pitchers, while at the same time giving the team’s bullpen much-needed rest during the season. That doomed much of the team’s chances the past few seasons.
4) If the Mariners are contenders and keep Lee throughout the season, then if Lee pursues free agency (which he would) the Mariners receive two compensatory picks (essentially two late First Rounders).
5) Yes, Phillippe Aumont was a high draft pick for the Mariners, but he has dropped on the depth chart a little bit since he was drafted. He was drafted to be an ace in the rotation, but within 1-1/2 years after being drafted he was designated as a reliever only. There is more going on there than meets the eye.
5) Gillies might also do well, but again… whatever prospects and/or draft picks the Mariners will ultimately receive will AT LEAST equal, and most likely surpass, what they gave up.
Of course, if Lee gets injured early on during the season, then this trade would look terrible for the Mariners. But right now, this trade looks like the best trade the Mariners have done in MANY years. Now Seattle’s pitching is basically set. They must focus on finding offense, if there is any hope of truly contending.
-
- FJRinLA - Dec 15, 2009 at 12:02 PM
-
It’s also true that both the standings and the off-balance schedule factors into who the Phillies could include in this trade.
Of course, Philly would rather not have the blowback of having Lee win even one regular season game against them after he’s become such a fan favorite, so it’s not surprising that they would focus their search for a trading partner on AL teams.
We also have to assume that if Toronto would prefer not to trade Halladay to the Red Sox or Yankees, then it makes sense they would frown on Cliff Lee ending up with any of their division rivals either as a result of their activity to trade the good Doctor. This leaves only AL Central and AL West teams.
So it’s not a big leap that to assume Toronto’s priorities are also driving Philly’s choice of trading partners when you note that the off-balance schedule means that Lee could face-off against the Blue Jays far fewer times with any AL West or AL Central team than he could with Baltimore or Tampa Bay…so I would not be surprised to discover that Toronto had eliminated AL East destinations for Cliff Lee after Philadelphia had already eliminated all NL teams on their own.
-
- aprince - Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM
-
What hitter would go to Seattle. The Mariners may be good but will never hit. Not without Roids. Safeco, where hitters careers go to die. Just ask Griffey, Aruillia, Sexson, the catcher in 05 from Chicago, Jack Wilson, Adam Jones, Spezio
-
- john rand - Dec 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM
-
Couldn’t agree more. Lee made it clear he wants to test the free agent waters. Ifthats true, there is no way in hell he remains in Seattle. How in the hell is this a steal? Its a head scratcher to me. Why would Seattle want to rent him for a year. If he wanted to sign an extension, he most certainly would have signed one with the Phils, a legitimate contender.
-
- Matt - Dec 15, 2009 at 12:30 PM
-
Its absurd and ludicrous that this guy thinks the Mariners got a steal. Granted you got Lee a great pitcher but you have him ONLY for one year. They have no chance to resign him after next. So the M’s gave away their top 2 prospects for 1 year???!!….they better win the world series this year or this deal was a bust for the M’s
-
- Jugg - Dec 15, 2009 at 12:33 PM
-
Everyone is gassing up for the Yankees. Too bad it won’t be enough! Sorry!
-
- bgert riley - Dec 15, 2009 at 12:54 PM
-
yes but would they not get a #1 pick than??
-
- One_Man_Gang - Dec 15, 2009 at 1:42 PM
-
*lightbulb emoticon*
EXACTLY!
-
- Mike Z - Dec 15, 2009 at 1:44 PM
-
This is one of the few deals where all 3 teams make out pretty well for what they need.
The Phils get Halliday (the guy they wanted in the first place). He is willing to sign a 3 year extension for $60 million (below market value). He is doing this because he wants to play for a contender in the NL, plus he lives a few minutes from the Phils spring training camp in Clearwater, FL. So the Phils get possibly the best pitcher in the game for 3 years and can stay within budget. And the Phils had to dump one of their 3 lefty starters. Also they get 2 very good prospects to help replace the guys they ship off to Toronto.
The Jays get 3 really big prospects that they can afford to pay for the next 3-5 years.
The Mariners get a top pitcher to make a run at the WS this year. It will probably be a 1 year shot with Lee because he is looking for the same type of deal his buddy C.C. got in NY. But they will grab a couple draft picks when he leaves to help replace the guys they ship to Philly.
So they way I see it everyone makes out. Sure the Phils could have held onto Lee and tried to get a big name for him elsewhere. But they are already looking at around a $150 million payroll, which is up over $30 million from 2009. So the money to pay another big name just isn’t there.
-
- Adam I - Dec 15, 2009 at 3:51 PM
-
This is a great deal for all teams.
That said, the Mariners really did STEAL Lee. Neither prospect has any real upside. we are, at best, looking at an average ML hitter and a solid (but not great) ML reliever in the future. These were not gems of the farm system. They were piece players that really had little to no value. And, with Felix, Lee and Snell the Mariners have a really solid 1-3.
-
- roger.earl@gmail.com - Dec 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
-
Yep… Seattle where hitters go to die.. just think how many more will be dying at the plate facing King Felix and Cliff Lee.
Seattle is very much a pitchers field, however both teams play on the same field.. what is bad for one is bad for the other.
I’d favor home team in a pitchers field as they are more familiar with how the park plays.
advantage.. Mariners…
Now if they can just get some hitting…
-
- HongKongPhooey - Dec 15, 2009 at 6:22 PM
-
Hi Jake,
It’s a steal because even if they lose Lee to free agency next off-season, they get two draft picks for them, thus, replacing the two prospects they traded off.
To get one of the top 10 pitchers (maybe top 5?) in all of baseball for two prospects is a steal. It’s not like we traded Adam Jones (our #1 prospect) for an injury-prone Baltimore starter or anything.
HKP
-
- hugh - Dec 17, 2009 at 7:12 AM
-
Everyone forgets that Nintendo owns the Mariners, and there is no “cap” in baseball. If the M’s want to make a deal, ………..THEY CAN
