Comments on: Thank God, a coherent Hall of Fame column at SI

By: backlinks

backlinks — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:12:59 +0000

Very good post. Thanks for sharing.

By: Oldtimer

Oldtimer — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 14:32:45 +0000

You’re pretty gullible if you believe he didn’t use them. He was just given bad P.R. advice. A-hole will probably get in because he will be forgiven. He “came clean”. McGwire hasn’t, and can’t now.

By: rcbuss

rcbuss — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:53:56 +0000

Playing devil’s advocate here…
Would PEDs have helped prolong Dale Murphy’s career long enough to give him the counting stats that some HOF voters like to see (“I know a HOFer when I see one.”)? As I recall, Murphy is a noted non-user, and has been a vocal critic of those who have.
–and–
Should voters take into account the supposed non-use by borderline cases for the Hall, where an end-of-career “boost” might have been enough to get them over the hump (or, at least, lessen the steepness of that cliff)?

By: TigerS Boy ToY

TigerS Boy ToY — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:05:04 +0000

You talk WITH A CONFIDENCE, DO you have PROOF ?

By: TigerS Boy ToY

TigerS Boy ToY — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:00:22 +0000

Juan Marichal was not a first ballot hall of famer because the holier than thou baseball writers wanted to send him a message about cracking Dodger Catcher Howard in the head with his bat.
Hall of fame voting is now a popularity contest.
Tim Raines numbers are better than Lou Brocks except for the
150 more stolen bases.
Either you are or not, there is no middle and why should a writer
decide oh, this guy never gave interviews to me so I will teach him
and he will have to wait til next year.Half these guys should lose their vote, they are bias.

By: TigerS Boy ToY

TigerS Boy ToY — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:54:58 +0000

I agree Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris belong, I don’t agree with your Mattingly/ New York remark and I agree he does not belong but
your New York remark is a low blow, but we New Yorkers can take it
and we can throw them back as well.

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:52:52 +0000

Lawrence — I do think that the decline phase matters. If you’re merely good but not great, you’re still contributing to your team and helping them win. If you fall off a cliff, you either have zero value or negative value to your team.
I’m not a nazi about this — if I was I’d be against guys like Koufax or Puckett in the Hall — but I prefer to see a mix of greatness and longevity in my Hall candidates.

By: DiamondDuq

DiamondDuq — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:19:10 +0000

I wouldn’t use a team achievement to compare a role player to a superstar, that’s as absurd as using OBP to trump actual production, it nonsensical. No one ever won a game by getting on base the most, that’s why they have LOB as a statistic, but in the history of baseball no team ever lost when scoring more runs. The only number that is remotely defensible for this guy is his OBP, or other random sabermetric statistics that rely on OBP. Production-wise he’s an All-Star but not a HOFer and there’s nothing wrong with that, but don’t try to make him into something he’s not and he’s not a HOFer. How can a guy who was never even the best offensive player on his team be one of the best offensive players of all-time? Griffey Jr. was better than him, then A-Rod was better than him, then Brett Boone and Ichiro were better than him!

By: Lawrence From Plattekill

Lawrence From Plattekill — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:52:01 +0000

I’ve always thought it a bit odd that guys who are great for 5 years and then not bad for another 10 or 15 are shoo-ins, while guys who are great for 5 years and then either gone or terrible for another 5 years are out of the running. I can understand separating them, it’s a legitimate way to look at it, but I feel that the part that makes them Hall-worthy–the great 5 years–is the same in either case.
Is that how you see it, Craig? That along with the 5 great years, you need the added longevity to make it in?

By: The Great Dane

The Great Dane — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:17:00 +0000

You too should read more Poz. Edgar, when healthy, was a special, special hitter. Don’t compare him to Willie McGee. Why not just say that Eckstein is better than Rodriguez, because he has one more ring? You’re just distorting fact.

By: DiamondDuq

DiamondDuq — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:39:45 +0000

What is with all this garbage about Martinez and his OBP?!?! Is that the only argument? Sure he has 2 batting titles, so does Willie McGee and he’s certainly not a HOFer, and by the way Willie also has an MVP and 3 Gold Gloves! Martinez has a career OBP over .400, so does Nick Johnson, who if he was a DH 95% of his career to this point may not have had so many injuries and could have played in far more games to this point, and in anyone’s wildest imagination he would never receive a single HOF vote. Of players in the HOF that played at least 2000 games only 10 have fewer hits than Edgar Martinez and of those 10, 8 have more HR and the only 2 who didn’t have more homeruns were Pee Wee Reese and Bill Mazeroski, 7 have more RBI with Gary Carter in addition to Pee Wee Reese and Bill Mazeroski. Pee Wee Reese never got voted into the HOF, he was put in by the veterans committee in 1984. The same can be said for Bill Mazeroski who was put in by the veterans committee in 2001. Gary Carter was voted in but as a catcher playing predominantly in the 70′s and 80′s he was in a primarily defensive position, not offensive, where he won 3 Gold Gloves and was an 11 time All-Star compared to Martinez playing an exclusively offensive position with fewer homeruns, just 36 more RBI, no Gold Gloves and 4 fewer All-Star appearances.

By: largebill

largebill — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:51:44 +0000

Craig,
Sure, Murphy probably falls short. However, if we can agree that the BBWAA makes some mistakes shouldn’t he be one of them? He damn sure wouldn’t be the worst choice and if character is part of the equation he has a 189 in CHAR+. CHAR+ is a sabermetric measurement of character adjusted for park and time frame. Hell, if Rice and Morris get votes based on FEAR+ well above average then Murphy should get the CHAR+ points.

By: DantesWitness

DantesWitness — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:10:21 +0000

Oldtimer, you help them get rid of the amphetamine users, the spitballers, the corked bat users, the racists who supported segregation, etc, and then we’ll talk about how a steroid user hurts the credibility of the hall of fame.

By: Oldtimer

Oldtimer — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:44:00 +0000

What credibility Baseball has left, will go up in smoke if McGwire is put into the HOF. Condoning a cheat, who’s stats are, in no way comparable to the players who came before or after, is a travesty.
Anyone thinking that the rules were different back then is, sadly, rationalizing a means to do, what is to me, the unthinkable.
McGwire KNOWS he cheated.

By: Eric Solomon

Eric Solomon — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:23:07 +0000

Pos belongs in the Hall of Fame

By: JBerardi

JBerardi — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:18:35 +0000

Smokehouse, maybe you should try actually reading the Poz article, where he carefully explains how incredibly wrong you are about this.

By: ecp

ecp — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:57:35 +0000

Pos is a treasure.

By: smokehouse

smokehouse — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:56:25 +0000

Trammell, Alomar, Larkin, Blyleven, Martinez, Raines and McGwire.
It seems to me we might be scrapping the bottom of the pot with all of these players. McGwire is a cheat, Larkin never, ever dominated and neither did Raines. That leaves Alomar, Blyleven (who is now pleading his case on a web site) and Martinez. Those three are the bottom of the pot. What’s the difference? The HOF turned political long ago.

By: The Great Dane

The Great Dane — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:55:44 +0000

- Jack Morris also belongs. He was one, if not, THEE, dominant pitcher of the 80′s.
Sorry, no. Go read some more Poz.

By: Nick

Nick — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:40:37 +0000

Thanks for the link to the story – but you might want to know that it goes to page 2 of 3 of the story instead of the possibly more logical page 1.

By: Crash

Crash — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:39:50 +0000

Bert Blyleven definately belongs. He has pretty big numbers for a guy who mainly played on bad teams, ala Robin Roberts. Jack Morris also belongs. He was one, if not, THEE, dominant pitcher of the 80′s. Had Mattingly not played in New York he wouldn’t be mentioned. No DHs belong in the Hall (take Molitor out). The others need a little more simmering.