Comments on: Digging into the Hall votes

By: Star Wars The Old Republic

Star Wars The Old Republic — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:19:30 +0000

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By: fish oil

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By: fish oil

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By: jimn

jimn — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 23:46:21 +0000

nothing about this vote upset me too much. i’d like to see blyleven in, but more as a blyleven fan than as a baseball fan. alomar. meh. he’ll get in. he deserves to get in. he probably also deserves to wait a year or two. ventura? i always enjoyed watching him play. he wasn’t the type of winner i want in the hall, but seven votes aren’t going to get him there. segui, that’s a bad one, but is a hell of a lot of food for thought, if you just take the time to think before you get upset with the whole system.
why do we always have to be outraged with the people who wield power? whether it be government or financial markets or hall of fame votes or journalists or filmmakers… it’s not like these people are amateurs. i’m sure all of them believe in their votes and are trying to make a decision they feel is right. do we feel so democratized with blogs and the internet and wikipedia that we don’t respect the professional work of others anymore? are our opinions better because they are ours, or because they are better? and even if they are better, does that completely discredit someone else’s decision that is made on the basis of their life’s work? no, it doesn’t.
so make your own hall of fame. work your ass off and get a vote of your own. write about who you think should be in or not be in, by all means. but this is baseball, have a little respect for our traditions, they might not be as stupid as your statistics make them out to be.

By: ruf

ruf — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:02:32 +0000

BBWAA? Apparently that is the BaseBall Whiners Association of America.
When the HOF designated the BBWAA to be the voters, this group of people were the only ones that really got to see and know The Game. It made sense then and most of the writers were sports journalists. Today, msot of the memebers of the BBWAA work in a rapidly shrinking and irrelevant medium (print) and likely have less knwledge and insight of The Game and the participants. They alos tend to practice the prevelant media technique of “gotcha journalism” and making “the scoop” at the cost of their integrity.

By: Bill@TDS

Bill@TDS — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:25:08 +0000

Actually, most people you find at a site like this (the writers, anyway; no accounting for the madding crowd) are going to agree that Trammell is very much a Hall of Famer. One of the 10-12 best ever at his position. That’s enough for me.

By: baeball-iq.com

baeball-iq.com — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:30:04 +0000

All I know is if its 1984, and I’m starting a new team, and I have my choice of Tony Gwynn, Ryne Sandberg, or Tim Raines, I am taking Raines without hesitating. (And I’m a Cub fan)
He was the best player in the NL in the mid 80′s. He is the 2nd best leadoff man probably ever. He got on base just as much as Gwynn, and accomplished alot more once on base than Gwynn. In the 6 years he and Dawson were both regulars on the same team, Raines was better 4 of the 6 yrs. Yet he can only get 30% of the vote

By: pajomaca

pajomaca — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:14:28 +0000

Trammell is treated shamefully? He’s a very nice player, but I think most would agree is a bit shy of HoF. Are some writers supposed to vote for him just to give him a higher total, as long as it’s not 75%? – how do those writers know who they are? (Personally, though, I think Parker’s treatment could be called shameful, since he should be viewed as at least borderline).

By: ssweeps

ssweeps — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:18:28 +0000

I’ll guarantee you that there are some ***hole (writers) voters who never saw Blyleven play in the early part of his career, so that is why he didn’t make it. I think I should get a vote for responding in writing to this post! LOL! At least my choices would be better! And players like Appier and Segui wouldn’t even be allowed to be on the ballot.

By: Skiddy

Skiddy — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:32:55 +0000

Never ceases to amaze me. How do you get to be one of the voters? Evidently, just say you are a baseball “expert.” I know most of them probably take this responsibility very seriously, but some are obviously idiots, and shouldn’t be allowed to vote. These are the ones who make a sham of this every year.

By: The D

The D — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 01:54:54 +0000

This (sympathy votes) works for me too (especially for Robin Ventura – the White Sox were in my top 3 in the early 90s for no real reason), as long as Writer X votes for all the people who belong too.
Like his ballot should be:
Alomar
Larkin
Blyleven
Martinez
Smith
McGriff
McGwire
Raines
Trammell
Segui

By: The Rabbit

The Rabbit — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:51:26 +0000

Sorry to disillusion you; however, if you research the players who are enshrined in the Hall, you’ll find a great many who do not fit your criteria. It would also be a very small HOF.
As evidenced by the votes, there are clearly many subjective factors that enter into the BBWAA members’ ballots.
I’m sure you’ll be glad I don’t have a vote. Even though I’m old, I tend to be more of a SABR person and I must admit I value quirkiness and individuality over the other subjective value, “team leadership”.

By: Omega in Colorado

Omega in Colorado — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:39:57 +0000

Ok, let’s travel to the land of make believe.
Robin Ventura actually gets voted into the HoF, and let’s be genorous since this is make believe, he makes it First Ballott! wow! way to go Robin.
Now at his induction ceremony, Nolan Ryan struts up to the podium, puts him in a headlock and whoops the tar out of him again.
They could probably play it over and over again on PPV and make a fortune!

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:04:18 +0000

You say “they” as if they all voted the same way. TWO people voted for Segui. 400 voted for Blyleven. Who’s to say those two weren’t part of the 400? When you are talking about hundreds of votes, there is hardly a “they” to speak of when comparing two candidates.

By: SYH

SYH — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:41:52 +0000

@15
“Derek Jeter” and “Terrific Fielder” do not ever belong in the same sentence together

By: TC

TC — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:40:16 +0000

Part of me wonders if the single vote getters weren’t just post-career compliments from admiring sportswriters. As in, some guy writing for the Palooka Times votes for Segui not because he thinks Segui will get in nor even deserves to be in, necessarily, but just wanted to give a little nod in the guy’s direction.
If that’s the case, I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. If someone out there really wants Segui in the Hall of Fame, well, that’s another story.

By: YANKEES1996

YANKEES1996 — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:36:38 +0000

They had nerve enough to vote for David Sequi, Kevin Appier, Robin Ventura and Harold Baines, but they could not see their way clear to vote for Bert Blyleven, Edgar Martinez and Jack Morris. Disbanded and sent to the four corners of the empire is too good for those idiots. If we think really hard we can come up with something much better than that!!

By: johnrb39

johnrb39 — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:15:08 +0000

I thought Andre Dawson was a very good player, but hall of fame? Why does someone have to be elected every year. The Hall of Fame implies to me the “Best of the Best”. I don’t see that in any of the names on the ballot. A “Derek Jeter” type player I can see. A true team leader, terrific fielder, and a great CLUTCH hitter. Some players have some attributes (Roberto Alomar) but lack the mental discipline or self control of a leader. I am not knocking these guys I just don’t see in them all the qualifications I think are required to be in the hall.

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:02:44 +0000

Ten years after they let me into the BBWAA. When they’ll let me into the BBWAA is anyone’s guess.
Maybe I’ll ask Heyman or Shaughnessy if they’ll sponsor me . . .

By: paddy

paddy — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:01:21 +0000

How much longer until you get to vote?

By: Michael

Michael — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:05:54 +0000

This really demonstrates the irrelevance of the average sportswriter.
There’s a pack mentality and level of, quite frankly, willful ignorance that is not helping newspapers to escape doom – if we can get BETTER information and analysis at the click of a button, why buy a paper?

By: markfd

markfd — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:55:00 +0000

What ashame, Blyleven, Trammell, Larkin, Morris and Alomar get excluded, all are deserving of the Hall. Heck, if you are going to put Dawson in you have to put Raines in too IMHO. I think the writers saw what a sorry group of candidates there are next year and figured these guys could wait another year!

By: Old Gator

Old Gator — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:27:33 +0000

Damn that “send” button – combine it with one of these stinking touchpads and oops!
.
As for Blyleven, he probably shot himself in the foot with his own campaigning. Five votes? He keeps to himself and stops jumping up and down and waving his arms around like that, he probably makes it. Just my guess. His bleating article about why he deserved to be in there last week annoyed me, and I don’t even vote.

By: Old Gator

Old Gator — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:26:51 +0000

By: MarkH

MarkH — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:26:17 +0000

My thoughts: Many BBWAA members love the power they wield, and don’t particular care how they wield it. For example, they have the power to give Mo Vaughn a vote for the Hall of Fame. They have the power to keep someone *out* of the Hall by denying them a vote, and they will gladly do it. If they write a column explaining all this, and get a million comments calling him a moron, well guess what — a million people read the column. He’s not “wrong” — he’s *popular.* That’s how it works.
I still cling to the notion that election to the HoF is a great honor. But the process of being elected by fools who abuse their powers to make political points is so corrupt that it’s beginning to taint my admiration for the entire system. It’s still an honor, but if I were Blyleven for example, I might be thinking the 12, 13, 14 year long process of being humiliated by having this carrot dangled in front of you might not be worth it.

By: Old Gator

Old Gator — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:19:28 +0000

Why reel at the exclusion of “Spitting Bobby” Alomar? Sure he had great stats, but so what? His level of sportsmanship was just a notch better than Stagolee’s. I could care less if he sinks into statistical oblivion and stays there.

By: Tom

Tom — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:18:29 +0000

I think you are referring to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRT70ceAMQ4 Craig, I think you are seriously slighting Robin Ventura. Was he any worse than Andre Dawson (Baseballprojection.com WAR list says yes, BP has Ventura being more valuable).

By: MDS

MDS — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:16:29 +0000

sympathy votes for robin

By: Moses Green

Moses Green — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:09:48 +0000

That’s it. First Phil Rizzuto gets in, now this? This is the last straw. It’s time for the SABR to start its own actual Hall of Fame. It should be constructed loosely on the Bill Simmons Pyramid principle, and a boycott should be organized for Cooperstown. Robby Alomar can’t go in on the first vote? Really BBWAA? Robby frickin Alomar?? They don’t get it, they never will. Time to go.
A new HOF, with Pete Rose IN with a description of exactly how his gambling on baseball and denials brought shame to himself and baseball. Alongside his hit-leader stats and the chip on his shoulder, warts and all.
Follow me to freedom!!!

By: Flipsy

Flipsy — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:08:50 +0000

Actually I don’t mind the courtesy vote for someone like Hentgen either. You know, these guys that will be on the ballot for one year and had a solid career and are the top 5 or 10 of their respective franchises. You covered them for many years, give them the token vote. No one gets hurt. It’s not like voting for Dawson but not Alomar or Raines.