Jon Heyman this morning:
lengthy discussion in starbucks now by 2 people regarding their love of hooters’ wings. i gotta get back to NY!
Anyone want to tell Heyman that there’s a Hooters on W. 56th Steet?
But I don’t mean to single out Heyman. Tim Lincecum likes to mock those with different tastes as well:
He’s a fan of the People of Wal-Mart Web site, and if you’ve ever
seen it, you probably feel a lot better about your ability to dress
yourself in the morning.Lincecum and a buddy made a run to the local big-box retailer
yesterday and he was very pleased with the photo of himself out front,
smiling while making a “W” symbol with his hand. He submitted it to the
site and hopes to see himself soon.
I’m not trying to be the thought police here, but having grown up in places that many people consider to be less than culturally sophisticated, I get really tired of this kind of casual, mocking cultural elitism. Hooters and Wal-Mart patrons buy baseball tickets and copies of Sports Illustrated too. Many of them — even those whose photographs were taken without their knowledge while they were looking less than their best and then were posted on some website — are actually pretty darn nice people if you get to know them.
If you don’t like Hooters don’t eat there (I’m not a fan myself). If you’re gonna hate on Wal-Mart, hate the fact that their executives have are largely responsible for getting this country hooked on crappy, cheap, disposable imported consumer
products and for ruining the Kansas City Royals.
But lay off their customers, will ya? Not all of them are worth eight figures or can afford to live next door to Pudge Rodriguez. They’re doing the best they can.
-
- Matt - Feb 25, 2010 at 11:21 AM
-
I agree with you on Walmart per se. However, I think Lincecum loves Walmart- and loves the people of Walmart. And I love that he loves Walmart enough to associate himself with a common dude place like Walmart, without getting paid to do so.
Elitists (or as we midwesterners call them, poor test taking douchebags) may judge hungover dudes dressed in pajamas buying laundry detergent as their lessers, but most of the world sees them as just dudes. These elitists may also “tweet” and then “tweet” that they are in Starbucks, and not catch the irony of standing in line to pay too much for COFFEE and then complaining that the people in that line aren’t as sophisticated as you, the guy with free coffee in the hotel lobby.
But am I wrong? I thought “great wings at Hooters” was code for great hooters at Hooters. No, I’m not wrong.
-
- gary - Feb 25, 2010 at 11:42 AM
-
This elitism is firmly entrenched in government and the MSM. Barack talked about the “bitter clingers” and Michelle said she had never been proud of America before Barack ran. Indeed the whole Obama admin is based on a disdain for those in fly-over country who are supposedly too stupid to know what’s good for them. (ie – We’ll shove Obamacare down their throats whether the proles want it or not).
-
- YX - Feb 25, 2010 at 11:53 AM
-
Given that what a great Hooters’ lover ARod is and that ARod pretty much pays Heyman (coincidentally, so does Pudge who live next to him), I wouldn’t call this elitism, just dumbarsism.
-
- Joey B - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:19 PM
-
“No, it is not. Elitism would be putting a value judgment on having more sophisticated tastes.”
So saying that you have more sophisticated tastes is not a value judgement? Perhaps you don’t mean it that way, but it comes across to me that way. I won’t drink Budweiser, but I certainly wouldn’t tell the Budweiser drinker that I have more spohisticated tastes than him.
And FWIW, I don’t have more sophisticed tastes than a Budweiser drinker. I just don’t like it. Perhaps that is what you meant to say? Maybe you prefer Calvin Klein and Brooks Brothers suits over jeans and sneakers. That doesn’t make you more sophisticated, it is merely a preference. I have the same Calvin Klein and Brooks Brothers in my closet, but I PREFER the jeans and sneakers.
-
- Joe L. - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:24 PM
-
While the POWM site is often funny, it is also in poor taste for the very same reason your post misses the point: what you believe to be evidence of “sophisticated taste” is probably not truly sophisticated, because average people like you and me have heard of it. In other words, if we (average folks) know about it, it’s not elite by definition.
A few examples. Joey B implies that Brooks Brothers is a high-end suit. No, it isn’t. The Golden Fleece are fine, and just the name itself is meaningful to some folks, but not to anyone who knows anything about men’s clothing. How about Kiton? Expensive, but available. Turnbull? Same. Henry Poole? Hardy Amies? How elite should we go?
How about watches? Tag Heuer? Boring. Rolex? No sale, overpriced with mediocre movement and gimcrack design. A. Lange? Now we’re talking! IWC? Hells yes. Vacheron? If you have $165,000 and want the best timepiece on earth. Panerai? I dream of the PAM 05.
Men’s shoes? If you didn’t say Vass or Edward Green or Lobb, you’ve disqualified yourself before we even started.
The point is, once you start talking about what is “good” and what is “bad” – and that you know the difference between the two because you have “sophisticated taste” – unless you’re an expert, you show yourself to be, in your own way, just as clueless as the good folks on the the POWM website appear to be. And just the same way that Heyman showed himself to be. And just how we all appear to be from time to time when trying to be arbiters of taste.
And as for food, some might say that anyone who talks about eating wings at all has no taste.
-
- Ace - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:25 PM
-
Who are the real elitists? Those who think quality healthcare should be available for everyone, or those who think it should only be for those wealthy enough to be able to afford it? It’s easy to pick on the Obamas for petty offenses like enjoying arugala or reading Faulkner, but meanwhile their opponents do little else but shill for the insurance industry. As I see it, favoring the interests of the very wealthiest Americans over the rest of us is as elitist as it gets, even if you do it with a down-home folksy drawl.
And about Michelle: a black woman born in the 60′s is supposed to be filled with unconditional love for this country?
-
- Church of the Perpetually Outraged - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:47 PM
-
lengthy discussion in starbucks now by 2 people regarding their love of hooters’ wings. i gotta get back to NY!
While the Hooters reference has been beaten to death (who cares about the wings, the breasts are to die for. thank you, I’ll be here all week), I love how he assumes NY is this beacon of culture and superiority. The same NYC/Times Square that twenty years ago was filled with Live Sex Shows and Adult Film/Mag stores (not that there’s anything wrong with that)? The same NYC that had a large homeless population? The same city of Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima? Just because Guiliani cleaned that all up doesn’t make the prior problems seem as if they never happened and the current Manhattan a Shangra’La.
And note, I
-
- George - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:48 PM
-
I can’t begrudge Heyman pointing and laughing at Hooter’s customers for being unsophisticated, when I point and laugh at Heyman for being comically naive.
I’ve only been to a hooters once in the last five years or so, and the wings were decent.
-
- Ron - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:51 PM
-
“It is not cultural elitism when you are have more sophisticated tastes than somebody else and express it.”
Really? I enjoy the hell out of some hotwings and a pitcher of beer at Hooters.
I also enjoyed the wine and escargot at Maxim’s in Paris.
It’s possible to have sophisticated tastes and not be a hick.
And making fun of someone for where they shop or eat is cultural elitism. That’s the definition of cultural elitism.
-
- gary - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:52 PM
-
The American people don’t want Obamacare. It’s paternalism run amok to shove it down their throats when they don’t want it. Ditto for the notion that elites know what’s best for the proles in Kansas better than the Kansans themselves.
I understand how Michelle would have grievances, but to say that she had never been proud of America until her husband ran for office shows a disdain for the American people that burns with the intensity of a 1000 suns. It’s not surprising because Hollywood, academia, the MSM and the Democratic Party is largely based on that disdain. The coastal and urban “blue” elites want to disown the rest of the country. They have more affinity for Europe than for the “red” parts of their own country.
-
- YankeesfanLen - Feb 25, 2010 at 12:58 PM
-
This is probably the first time in reading Craig’s posts that an elaborate “elitism” thread developed. And we’ll disregard the usual noise about a certain team’s payroll.
None of the commenter’s apt observations come close to the “elitism” you find on other comment boards- specifically, take a look at any photography forum and you’ll see all kinds of “my Canon is better than your Nikon” and sniffing that you couldn’t possibly know what aperature to use when shooting a Toledo Mud Hens game.
I’m going with the personal preference side. Plus see more value in better cuts of chicken.
Where’s Old Gator? C’mon, finish your post, it’s snowing like hell in metro NY today and we’d love to hear your dissertation.
-
- Shane - Feb 25, 2010 at 1:01 PM
-
Good posts Joey B and Joe L, clever and well thought. I am going to have to disagree with Joey in that having “more sophisticated” tastes when it comes to food is a value judgment on a persons worth. It is stating that one has a different palate and different priorities when it comes to the food they choose to ingest. Joe L, I disagree with your assessment that, in order to have more sophisticated tastes than someone else, you need to be an expert of the highest order whose expertise will only lead them to the very best in all things. That my friend, makes you sounds extraordinarily elitist. I choose not to shop at Wal-Mart or eat at Hooter’s, that does not make me an elitist, it makes me a guy with different tastes and priorities than those that choose other venues. As for the Budweiser example, I think it is a perfect delivery for my point. I will drink Budweiser over Bud Light, but Coors original over either. There are 20 local micro’s that I enjoy more than all of them, but when it comes down to my favorites, I’ll take an Oly or a Dead Guy. One is nearly free and the other is pretty spendy, however, the fit in with the flavor palate I enjoy the most. When I order an Oly, am I being an elitist or an average Joe? When I order a Dead Guy, am I a different person?
-
- Shane - Feb 25, 2010 at 1:06 PM
-
Yes, making fun of them is cultural elitism. Saying you would rather go to NY to get wings instead of Hooters is not. Stating the obvious that wings in other places (just about anywhere really) appeals to a more sophisticated taste palate is not elitist, it is obvious.
-
- InnocentBystander - Feb 25, 2010 at 1:06 PM
-
Anyway you can delete all of the posts by southern rednecks, Midwestern hicks, far west bumpkins, northwest yokels, Bible belt hayseeds, and south Atlantic hillbillies? They are ruining the site for the rest of us.
-
- Church of the Perpetually Outraged - Feb 25, 2010 at 1:13 PM
-
gary, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
-
- Charles Gates - Feb 25, 2010 at 1:24 PM
-
You.
The Point.
Elitism isn’t about buffalo wings vs. filet mignon. Elitism is about pre-judging someone based on a point in time observation and placing yourself above them in a heirarchical context without a full understanding of circumstance.
In a similar fashion, some people point out grammer mistakes as a simple, “Hey, FYI, it’s ‘you’re’ not ‘your,’ whereas others point them out to say, “My understanding of English is superior to yours, therefore I’m better.”
People like what they like. And those likes are different, for a variety of (irrelevant) reasons. My preferance of X, while you like Y, doesn’t make me more elite than you are. It just means that I like X and you like Y. But if I say, “My liking of X means I’m better than you because you like Y,” then, yes, that’s elitism.
-
- Grant - Feb 25, 2010 at 2:13 PM
-
Yeah. This was my first thought. Chain restaurant? Midtown? For tourists.
-
- scatterbrian - Feb 25, 2010 at 2:20 PM
-
Can one really be elitist about Buffalo wings?
-
- Stone - Feb 25, 2010 at 2:23 PM
-
Sorry Craig, 99% of the people featured on that site are either insane or clueless. White T is White T and you gotta call it when you see it.
-
- scatterbrian - Feb 25, 2010 at 2:28 PM
-
” too stupid to know what’s good for them”
You mean like how Cheney said he didn’t care when the majority of America did not want to go to war? Don’t make this political.
-
- Charles Gates - Feb 25, 2010 at 3:30 PM
-
It’s not that surprising. Did you know that roughly half of Americans are of below average intelligence? Staggering, really.
-
- Shane - Feb 25, 2010 at 3:39 PM
-
Are you saying people with below intelligence are less intelligent than people with above average intelligence? That is elitist, for shame.
Nice post BTW
-
- Joey B - Feb 25, 2010 at 4:29 PM
-
“A few examples. Joey B implies that Brooks Brothers is a high-end suit. No, it isn’t. The Golden Fleece are fine, and just the name itself is meaningful to some folks, but not to anyone who knows anything about men’s clothing.”
I agree. Some of the BB’s are decent, that’s about all. I get mine at outlets, where the quality is less than it is elsewhere. I do so because the BB will get noticed and acknowledged by people that don’t realize that it is just another suit, which is maybe 90%+ of the population.
So basically, I’m allowing a logo in a suit jacket, to imply a level of sophistication that I don’t care about and don’t have, by taking advantage of those that think themselves sophisticated, but aren’t.
My Calvin Klein suits also fit that description. They’re not cheap, but it’s more label than it is content.
-
- The Common Man - Feb 25, 2010 at 4:57 PM
-
“Sophisticated” is a loaded word. Regardless of how you mean it, it has come to have an inherent value judgment built into it….And it makes you seem like a douche.
-
- shane - Feb 25, 2010 at 5:10 PM
-
Not as much as using words like douche.
Sophisticated isn’t a loaded word and does not have any explicit value to it. It means complex, or not naive. Any value you put on it is your own. If you want to use it as a judgment, that is your call.
