Let me start out by acknowledging a couple of things:
1. That kid at the Phillies game had no business whatsoever being on the field last night. He should be arrested and charged to the fullest extent the law allows.
2. Fans on the field represent a threat to the athletes. I remember the Monica Seles incident. I remember Tom Gamboa being attacked in Chicago. That’s scary stuff and no one should abide threats to the players, coaches or officiants at a sporting event.
That said, I do not agree that the guy at the Phillies game should have been subdued with a Taser. It was too much force, in my view, and was disproportionate to the threat presented.
And make no mistake: a Taser is designed to be use to combat threats, not merely to help subdue drunks or trespassers. Indeed, the very company who makes the Taser calls it a product that “protects life.” One that is designed to “incapacitate dangerous, combative, or
high-risk subjects who pose a risk to law enforcement/correctional
officers, innocent citizens, or themselves.”
Watch the video of the incident here. Can anyone point to a moment where the kid threatened or even came near anyone on the field? Any point where he appeared to be “dangerous,” or “combative?” Any point where he appeared to “pose a risk to law enforcement officers?” If you can identify it please let me know, because to me it looks like the whole scene was calling far louder for an overdub of “Yakety Sax” than the use of high voltage force. In the grand scheme of things, this kid represented a threat somewhere below that of your average streaker and somewhere above Morgana the Kissing Bandit.
The most common response I’ve heard to this argument today is “but Craig, we don’t know what the kid could have done! There was so much uncertainty!” My response to that: every single encounter between law enforcement and the public brings uncertainty. Ask a cop and he’ll tell you: even the most mundane traffic stop has the potential to turn dangerous quickly. That’s just a fact of life when you’re dealing with people who do wrong, or who are at least suspected of such.
But we don’t allow police officers to use force at every traffic stop or whenever they encounter a drunk or a trespasser. Why? Because such force is not necessary to accomplish the goals of police work. Force — and the the use of a Taser is definitely force — is a last resort, only to be used in a manner commensurate with the threat presented and to overcome the obstacles which prevent the accomplishment of the officer’s goal. This is the law. It also happens to be a pretty good idea.
Late this morning the Philadelphia police issued a statement standing behind the police officer who used the taser. The rationale was that “the officer had acted within the department’s guidelines, which allow
officers to use Tasers to arrest fleeing suspects.” To which I respond: where was he fleeing? He was in a walled off stadium surrounded by police and security guards. He was almost certain to just stop and give up as soon as his beer-fueled bravado ran its course, which appeared to be within approximately 10 seconds of when he was tased. He wasn’t going anywhere.
I know that people worry about the safety of players. I do too. I also worry, however, about what happens when the government uses its most serious power: the power to exert force over citizens. There are over 2000 baseball games a year. In any given year there
are very, very few incidents of fans running on the field. Of those, incidents in which the fans get anywhere near a player before being subdued are even rarer. If more attention were paid to in-stadium security, the incidents would be even rarer than that.
Now think about what we risk when we tell police officers that it’s
perfectly acceptable to use force without heed to the actual threat — as opposed to potential threat — posed by the suspect. Because make no mistake, that’s what anyone who uses the “but we have no idea what could have happened” argument to support the police officer is really saying. Personally I find that unsettling.
Based on what their web site says, I think the folks who make Tasers would find that unsettling too.
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- Brent - May 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM
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I think it’s hilarious…what ever happened to cops chasing ya till they caught ya or they gave up. The guy was in ball park…not many exits on the field…block em all and wait. BUT the more serious fact is…he called his DAD..HIS DAD and asked for permission to do it!!!! HELLOOOOOOO I’m a dad and if my 17 yr old called me and asked that, I’d advise him under NO CIRCUMSTANCES DOES HE DO IT and DON’T CALL WHEN YOU NEED BAIL MONEY!!!!
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- Brent - May 5, 2010 at 11:10 AM
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YOU COULD NOT BE MORE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SAY TASE ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! They pose more of a threat than this little punk-prank.
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- gabbo - May 5, 2010 at 11:28 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtPUhYdz6M&NR=1
Here is the best video. You can see the officer gave a chance for the fan to give up or the other workers to catch him by not firing the first time around. The officer only fires after the fan evaded capture and has a straight line to Raul Ibanez with no one in the way. In this video, you can see both Juan Castro and Raul Ibanez retreating as the fan heads in their direction, so clearly, even the ballplayers felt somewhat threatened.
The cop has a limited window of opportunity, because the kid is pretty quick and has evaded capture. Even if the kid has no intent to injure Raul, the possibility exists because you have no idea what his intent is. Maybe a simple high 5, but he accidentally breaks Raul’s foot upon landing. If your boss, team, and city has millions of dollars at stake, do you take the risk of letting him go? In the time it took you to read this, your decision will already be too late.
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- TizzySurffs - May 5, 2010 at 11:40 AM
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Hummm are there any other openings; so many people out of work!!
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- TomK - May 5, 2010 at 11:40 AM
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“The only weapon he was holding was a towel.” That was your statement. What was in his pocket? I don’t know and I highly doubt that you do either. Certainly, the Officer didn’t know at that time. Is it possible he had a knife? Is it possible he did not like one of the players? I don’t know and neither do you. I am positive that the Officer didn’t know at that moment. What if he had stabbed someone? Then what would you say about the Officer? I imagine you would be asking why he didn’t use the taser. If you noticed the kid was up and walking off the field within 30 seconds of being hit with the taser. Excessive? I think not.
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- Chuck - May 5, 2010 at 11:49 AM
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So what would be better, tasering him or having a 250 lb cop in full gear tackle him at full speed. Far less injury to the idiot with a taser.
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- Dave - May 5, 2010 at 11:58 AM
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You do realize he had already passed through security, so the likelihood that he had any weapon of note is significantly diminished
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- Jay - May 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM
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Exactly, and like I said increase the penalty to something like $10,000 fine 30-60 days in prison and a lifetime ban from the park. This way all of the sane morons who just want to be on tv or get a laugh won’t do this. And for the ones that do, clearly they aren’t ok in the head and at the very least don’t really care about the team or the game because they are willing to get the lifetime ban. I don’t have an issue with using force like a taser to take those people down. Let’s separate the criminals from the fools and drunks please.
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- Bryant - May 5, 2010 at 12:41 PM
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Hey Craig, people like you also don’t agree with spanking their bad ass kids…that’s what’s wrong with today’s society. I bet you one thing…he won’t try running his narrow tail out on the field again. Wasn’t that the intended message? Message received, so what’s the problem? Grow some!
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- bacchus - May 5, 2010 at 1:29 PM
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Security? what security? the events from this past weekend show that security people can get lazy and make mistakes all the time and things like suspected terrorist bombers can still get on airplanes and be within minutes/seconds of getting away (maybe).
Does anyone remeber what happened to Monica Seles? There doesn’t have to be a gun, it could’ve been a knife. I carry a knife on me all the time and was just at a Padres games with it on my person in the stands. I could’ve jumped on the field and knifed whomever I wanted.
The sad truth is that most security in this country is stiil trying to get better at being “proactive” instead of “reactive”.
Taser him ’til he sh*ts himself says I
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- Prof - May 5, 2010 at 1:47 PM
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Well, at least we know what you DON’T do for a living, Reader…work as an English teacher. Try learning the difference between “your” (possessive) and “you’re” (contraction) before criticizing ANYONE on a public forum.
Too bad the Taser didn’t work as a deterrent to future violence on that male Virginia lacrosse player when he was arrested for disorderly conduct a few years ago. Maybe that female lacrosse player would still be alive if he had gotten the message. Too bad he was just another little spoiled rich kid who got slaps on the wrist instead of real punishment for his actions.
I digress, but the fact of the matter is that the kid didn’t belong on the field and got what he deserved. I have no sympathy for that chump.
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- Joe Philly - May 5, 2010 at 4:16 PM
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I was at that game and sitting very close to the field. Craig is completely right that the force used was unnecessary. Craig and I would both concede that some fans on the field may need to be tazed (the guys who beat the first base coach in KC). This kid was no threat, and was obviously not gonna hurt anyone (he was running away from people not towards them). He deserved to be prosecuted for trespass and spend his night in the pokey, but physical force needs to be reserved for situations when its necessary. Taking a one size fits all response that anyone on the field deserves what they get is dangerous and irresponsible.
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- Rich - May 5, 2010 at 6:46 PM
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well, if the excuse is (you never know what couldve happened?) to justify using force. then we all should plan on being zapped for speeding or J-walking. (since when did “STOP!, or i’ll shoot) become ok?
If the “out of shape” “physically challenged” police officer cant catch the kid, the answer is to zap him?
Don’t police officers know that they will be faced with dealings that REQUIRE them to be able to handle the physical challenges involved in any given situation? YES!!! if that cop wasnt carrying around 80 pounds of dead weight, he could have caught the kid and made the arrest WITHOUT FORCE. but since he was starting to run out of steam and couldn’t catch his breath, he knew he wouldn’t catch the kid.
pure and simple, USING FORCE instead of the tools in a gym is that cops idea of law enforcement.
if that wouldve happened someplace private, the kid wouldve been beaten while being zapped.
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- Sherry in Philly - May 5, 2010 at 11:52 PM
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For you people who think tasers are more harmful then traditional subduing, more people get hurt getting tackled and held down:
From New scientist:
“24,000 cases where police had used force, including almost 5500 incidents involving a Taser. After controlling for factors such as the amount of resistance shown by the suspect, they found that Taser use reduced the overall risk of injury by 65 percent.”
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- Brad2 - May 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM
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First, I have little sympathy for the kid and even laughed a little bit when I saw it on Youtube. However, there will be no deterrence factor here. The death penalty does not deter murder.
Also, although generally non-lethal, people die every year from
tasers(rare, yes, but it happens). I thought it was unnecessary
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- eric - May 6, 2010 at 11:46 AM
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Wow. You certainly can churn out an exhausting word count. But why are you so certain it is better to tackle/wrestle/physically subdue? These actions can be injurious, to the nitwit and to the police. I am sympathetic to you fears about a police state, but here you are just misguided and, frankly, a bit of a weenie.
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- Gilbert Sville - May 6, 2010 at 1:45 PM
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Did anyone notice how slippery quick this kid was? He should try out for the Eagles. Had the Phillies not been getting creamed at the time, he never would have been tazed. If they were winning they would have let himself run himself tired and had a good laugh when they were putting the handcuffs on. This 17 year old made a big mistake going on the field. Were any of you 17 at one time and do anything stupid? He said he was sorry and he is a good kid who made a mistake. How about putting netting around the field to stop this. Maybe an electric fence with barb wire. Sharp shooters? Now there is a suggestion of a courtroom at the stadium. Give me a break. I live in the same neighborhood as this 17 year old supposive thug and I plan on running around on his lawn with a rally towel as a sign of Phillies solidarity.
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- Skids - May 7, 2010 at 10:15 AM
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Well, Jay, I bet you still don’t believe someone left a car bomb in Times Square the other day, or that 9/11 ever really happened.
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- Phil - May 7, 2010 at 10:36 AM
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From the previous thought pattern… Matt wrote, “I work for a pro sports team (and have worked in sports my whole life), and have seen this a few times.
the minute a fan steps on the field, they deserve whats coming to them. there is no telling what their intention is, EVER.”
So let’s Just Shoot the Kid down… Kent State comes to mind…
Wake UP Matt…
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- css - May 8, 2010 at 3:15 PM
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CLEARLY the Taser doesn’t work as much of a deterrent, since the very next night another guy ran onto the field. So much for “not wanting to get Tasered.” No TAser was used that next night. In fact, the Phillies front office has decided that Philadelphia police officers will no longer be on the field and involved in catching folks who run onto the field. What does that tell you? That the force was way over the top, unnecessary and, simply, disproportionate to the threat posed to the police officer himself, the players on the field, or the general public in attendance at Citizens Bank Park.
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- Simple512 - May 9, 2010 at 1:48 AM
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Yet another one of these putrid after the fact articles. Sure, watching the guy on YouTube it does seem like he was just out for a good time. But then again, he was running on the field and eluding police. Screw him – he put himself and everyone else in jeopardy for his own selfish reasons.
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- to_fat_rule - May 9, 2010 at 2:19 PM
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The use of a taser isn’t because the person is a threat it is because the office is too FAT to catch the person. To fat to do the job so they use the taser crutch.
Look at the officer in the video, he is too FAT to be doing that job let alone to much of a Moron to even know how to run.
This is the MAJOR problem. the scumbag police are too fat to do their job and too corrupt to do their job within the law.
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- Brad - May 10, 2010 at 3:48 PM
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Hey Craig,
A Taser seems like a better, less violent option than untrained knuckledragging security people beating on the guy and causing real damage. Before you judge an officer on his judgement, strap a vest on, put a badge and uniform on and go see what we see. On second thought, maybe you’re right. Maybe the officer should have waited to see what the idiot did. Of course, had he run somebody over and caused an injury to them, well the cop would have been at fault for not doing anything. In the end, no one was actually hurt, possibly due to the officers actions.
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- just wondering - May 10, 2010 at 8:52 PM
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maybe it’s just me, but does this kid look “special” ??
of course he should’ve been tased….had he pulled out a weapon and injured a player, no one would question it. i bet monica seles wished someone would’ve tasered that nut that stabbed her during the tennis match.
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- shashi ramakrishna - May 11, 2010 at 2:56 AM
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There are SOME reasoned responses on both sides of the issue. By and large, however, the primary argument AGAINST use of the taser is that the kid did not likely pose a significant threat to anyone and the primary argument FOR the use of the taser is that we cannot be sure that he did not pose a risk to anyone. KNOWING whether or not he posed a risk is virtually impossible. This is not a bleeding heart versus law and order issue. I fear, instead, that those FOR the use of the taser have simply succumbed to fear in our changing world. That saddens me.
