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UPDATE: Manny Ramirez not in the lineup for the third straight day

Aug 28, 2010, 4:55 PM EDT

UPDATE: It’s confirmed. According to Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, Manny Ramirez is out of the starting lineup for the third straight game Saturday. Joe Torre can say what he wants about superstitions and not wanting to mess with chemistry of the ballclub, but we all know better.

11:31 AM: Seriously. I’m hoping the Dodgers told manager Joe Torre to make up some
elaborate excuses over the next few days, because it would be a shame if he really believes this.

After the Dodgers won their second straight game with Manny Ramirez on the bench, Torre told Tony Jackson of ESPNLosAngeles.com that he hasn’t made up his mind about about including him in the starting lineup Saturday.

“I’m not sure yet,” Torre said. “I told him we would talk about it
tomorrow. I have been a lot more superstitious since I started
managing.”

So, in summary, Scott Podsednik gives the Dodgers a better chance to win than Ramirez. Clearly, the White Sox are going after the wrong guy.

By the way, the Dodgers have won four straight games, improving to 67-62 on the year. They enter play Saturday 4 1/2 games back in the National League Wild Card race.

  1. Ari Collins - Aug 28, 2010 at 12:03 PM

    4.5 back, but in 4th for the WC. People don’t take that into account enough. It’s one thing to hope one team collapses, but 4? It’s sad how bad the Dodgers are at realizing where they stand.

  2. Old Gator - Aug 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM

    Well, they’re close enough so that they have a prayer. Sounds like a great time to unload a dead weight like Manny on the White Sox. Who needs a bat like his anyway?

  3. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 1:24 PM

    Well, DJ, it seems that there are people with just a bit more connection to the game than either you or I have a soft spot for the baseball superstition. I’ll make you a deal: when you can produce someone of superior pedigree to Torre that is willing to say that superstitions are hooey, then I will stop calling you out for violating the most basic of them all. Or better yet, why not concede that the highest authority you have been able to muster a quote from disagrees with you, and strive to never, ever again take away a chance at history by insisting on using the one word that can do it all by itself..

  4. Reflex - Aug 28, 2010 at 3:50 PM

    Bill James

  5. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 4:31 PM

    Really? How many years did Bill James pay the rent PLAYING the game? Managing in the Major Leagues? How many All-Star Games did he play in? How many World Series did he win?
    I said SUPERIOR pedigree, in the game. Bill James, like you, like me, like DJ, like Bud Selig, is a WANNABE. He may have a superb analytical mind, but he’s not Joe Torre.

  6. Reflex - Aug 28, 2010 at 4:55 PM

    In other words you prefer the word of those most at risk of selection and confirmation bias,rather than those in a position to be unbiased. The Red Sox broke an 84 year losing streak thanks to Bill James. The A’S were competitive with a fraction of their rivals payrolls for years thanks to James. Torre? Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy, but with that payroll its difficult to see him as accomplishing more than just staying out of the way.
    James has revolutionized the entire sport. Torre is just a competent manager.

  7. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 5:09 PM

    James has a mind for the game. Torre’s got a gut for it. And whilr Torre is not infallable, neither is James. I lifted the following from his Wikipedia page:
    “James was a strong critic of the Dowd Report, which was the most thorough investigation (commissioned by baseball commissioner Bart Giamatti) on the gambling activities of Pete Rose. James, in his Baseball Book 1990, dismissed Dowd’s conclusion that the former Cincinnati Reds manager bet on baseball games, for lack of evidence. James reproached commissioner Giamatti and his successor, Fay Vincent, for their acceptance of the Dowd Report as the final word on Rose’s gambling.
    In 2004, Rose admitted he had bet on baseball and confirmed the Dowd Report was correct.[citation needed] James’s argument was that the evidence available to Dowd at the time was insufficient to reach the coincidentally correct conclusion.”
    James may be knowlegeable and informed, and that can be a sufficient skill set to successfully predict outcomes, but if that were more true for James than for Torre, why has James not been hired to manage in the big leagues? I think an MLB career with 9 All-Star nods is much more highly regarded in the game than being able to find your way around a calculator.

  8. Glenn - Aug 28, 2010 at 5:53 PM

    I can’t believe that Chris Fiorentino changed his tag to RichardinBigD. James actually wrote an excellent essay about why he probably wouldn’t be a good manager – but the essay, in its entirely, reinforces what Reflex is saying. James is a genius. Torre is a very nice guy who has great people and management skills but seems a little weak in sabermetric knowledge. But I don’t believe for a second that he is actually superstitious, neither does DJ – so what are you arguing about?

  9. Ditto65 - Aug 28, 2010 at 5:54 PM

    I am posting this as a comment to any game in which a pitcher has managed to avoid allowing a hit through four innings: He’s working on a NO-HITTER.

  10. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 6:04 PM

    Yes, but tradition, superstion and good taste dictate that thaat word not be used to describe it while it is in progress!

  11. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 6:06 PM

    He may not allow his decisions to be ruled entirely by superstitions, but I believe that there is an influence.

  12. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 6:34 PM

    BTW, it was 86 years, not 84. An error like that could throw off the whole metric. Speaking of which, what are the odds that a tem will go 87 consecutive years without winning a WS?

  13. Ditto65 - Aug 28, 2010 at 6:49 PM

    If you are in the dugout conversing with the pitcher.

  14. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 7:47 PM

    Ditto, you might want to check out the thread at the other end of this link
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/no-virginia-i-dont-believe-in-jinxes.php
    Take special note of the ninth response…

  15. Ditto65 - Aug 28, 2010 at 8:12 PM

    But what do you base that post on? I have always known it to be taboo in the dugout. Period. Now obviously the PA announcer couldn’t mention it as the pitcher sitting in the dougout would likely hear it. But the radio and tv guys, as well as the bloggers, are not included in that. Again, this is my understanding of a superstition related to a game.

  16. RichardInBigD - Aug 28, 2010 at 8:47 PM

    Well, I suppose what you say was true in the old days, and I don’t know what your affiliation is(i.e. your home ballpark), but in Arlington, the radio broadcast is heard throughout all concourses and in all restrooms (apparantly this encourages both buying and returning more beer), there are televisions in the clubhouse with the broadcast available, and there are dozens, if not hundreds of computers throughout with internet connections. Therefore, if that word is broadcast, televised or blogged, it ends up back inside the park, regardless of its point of origin. Therefore, at no point during that game should the term “no-hitter” be used to describe it by anyone that is connected to the game, reporting on the game or observing the game…

  17. Glenn - Aug 28, 2010 at 11:03 PM

    Which should be a bad thing on Torre’s part, yes?

  18. Glenn - Aug 28, 2010 at 11:10 PM

    Crikey! Does anyone really believe that their comments affect the outcome of a game, especially if the pitcher has no idea what was said. I am so sick of my wife yelling at me for what I say at home as is I was jinxing a game hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from me. What are we, hunter’s and gatherers? As a counterpoint, I love the youtube about Doc Ellis’ no-hitter. His second baseman (Cash?) couldn’t shut up about it, but some how he pulled of the no-no on acid anyway.

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