Comments on: UPDATE: Manny Ramirez not in the lineup for the third straight day

By: Glenn

Glenn — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:10:35 +0000

Crikey! Does anyone really believe that their comments affect the outcome of a game, especially if the pitcher has no idea what was said. I am so sick of my wife yelling at me for what I say at home as is I was jinxing a game hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from me. What are we, hunter’s and gatherers? As a counterpoint, I love the youtube about Doc Ellis’ no-hitter. His second baseman (Cash?) couldn’t shut up about it, but some how he pulled of the no-no on acid anyway.

By: Glenn

Glenn — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:03:11 +0000

Which should be a bad thing on Torre’s part, yes?

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:47:41 +0000

Well, I suppose what you say was true in the old days, and I don’t know what your affiliation is(i.e. your home ballpark), but in Arlington, the radio broadcast is heard throughout all concourses and in all restrooms (apparantly this encourages both buying and returning more beer), there are televisions in the clubhouse with the broadcast available, and there are dozens, if not hundreds of computers throughout with internet connections. Therefore, if that word is broadcast, televised or blogged, it ends up back inside the park, regardless of its point of origin. Therefore, at no point during that game should the term “no-hitter” be used to describe it by anyone that is connected to the game, reporting on the game or observing the game…

By: Ditto65

Ditto65 — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:12:21 +0000

But what do you base that post on? I have always known it to be taboo in the dugout. Period. Now obviously the PA announcer couldn’t mention it as the pitcher sitting in the dougout would likely hear it. But the radio and tv guys, as well as the bloggers, are not included in that. Again, this is my understanding of a superstition related to a game.

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:47:26 +0000

Ditto, you might want to check out the thread at the other end of this link http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/no-virginia-i-dont-believe-in-jinxes.php Take special note of the ninth response...

By: Ditto65

Ditto65 — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:49:54 +0000

If you are in the dugout conversing with the pitcher.

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:34:11 +0000

BTW, it was 86 years, not 84. An error like that could throw off the whole metric. Speaking of which, what are the odds that a tem will go 87 consecutive years without winning a WS?

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:06:21 +0000

He may not allow his decisions to be ruled entirely by superstitions, but I believe that there is an influence.

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:04:05 +0000

Yes, but tradition, superstion and good taste dictate that thaat word not be used to describe it while it is in progress!

By: Ditto65

Ditto65 — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:54:12 +0000

I am posting this as a comment to any game in which a pitcher has managed to avoid allowing a hit through four innings: He’s working on a NO-HITTER.

By: Glenn

Glenn — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:53:16 +0000

I can’t believe that Chris Fiorentino changed his tag to RichardinBigD. James actually wrote an excellent essay about why he probably wouldn’t be a good manager – but the essay, in its entirely, reinforces what Reflex is saying. James is a genius. Torre is a very nice guy who has great people and management skills but seems a little weak in sabermetric knowledge. But I don’t believe for a second that he is actually superstitious, neither does DJ – so what are you arguing about?

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:09:30 +0000

James has a mind for the game. Torre’s got a gut for it. And whilr Torre is not infallable, neither is James. I lifted the following from his Wikipedia page:
“James was a strong critic of the Dowd Report, which was the most thorough investigation (commissioned by baseball commissioner Bart Giamatti) on the gambling activities of Pete Rose. James, in his Baseball Book 1990, dismissed Dowd’s conclusion that the former Cincinnati Reds manager bet on baseball games, for lack of evidence. James reproached commissioner Giamatti and his successor, Fay Vincent, for their acceptance of the Dowd Report as the final word on Rose’s gambling.
In 2004, Rose admitted he had bet on baseball and confirmed the Dowd Report was correct.[citation needed] James’s argument was that the evidence available to Dowd at the time was insufficient to reach the coincidentally correct conclusion.”
James may be knowlegeable and informed, and that can be a sufficient skill set to successfully predict outcomes, but if that were more true for James than for Torre, why has James not been hired to manage in the big leagues? I think an MLB career with 9 All-Star nods is much more highly regarded in the game than being able to find your way around a calculator.

By: Reflex

Reflex — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:55:46 +0000

In other words you prefer the word of those most at risk of selection and confirmation bias,rather than those in a position to be unbiased. The Red Sox broke an 84 year losing streak thanks to Bill James. The A’S were competitive with a fraction of their rivals payrolls for years thanks to James. Torre? Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy, but with that payroll its difficult to see him as accomplishing more than just staying out of the way.
James has revolutionized the entire sport. Torre is just a competent manager.

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:31:26 +0000

Really? How many years did Bill James pay the rent PLAYING the game? Managing in the Major Leagues? How many All-Star Games did he play in? How many World Series did he win?
I said SUPERIOR pedigree, in the game. Bill James, like you, like me, like DJ, like Bud Selig, is a WANNABE. He may have a superb analytical mind, but he’s not Joe Torre.

By: Reflex

Reflex — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:50:20 +0000

Bill James

By: RichardInBigD

RichardInBigD — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:24:36 +0000

Well, DJ, it seems that there are people with just a bit more connection to the game than either you or I have a soft spot for the baseball superstition. I’ll make you a deal: when you can produce someone of superior pedigree to Torre that is willing to say that superstitions are hooey, then I will stop calling you out for violating the most basic of them all. Or better yet, why not concede that the highest authority you have been able to muster a quote from disagrees with you, and strive to never, ever again take away a chance at history by insisting on using the one word that can do it all by itself..

By: Old Gator

Old Gator — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:15:15 +0000

Well, they’re close enough so that they have a prayer. Sounds like a great time to unload a dead weight like Manny on the White Sox. Who needs a bat like his anyway?

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:03:21 +0000

4.5 back, but in 4th for the WC. People don’t take that into account enough. It’s one thing to hope one team collapses, but 4? It’s sad how bad the Dodgers are at realizing where they stand.