Comments on: Who are the heftiest shortstops of all time?

By: Juan Uribe “closing in on a three-year deal” with the Dodgers | HardballTalk

Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:16:01 +0000

[...] is perhaps the heftiest shortstop in baseball history, but presumably the Dodgers plan to use him primarily at second base with Rafael Furcal around. [...]

By: Adam

Adam — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:10:57 +0000

I think the important thing to remember is there’s no such thing as a tie. Either the ball beats the runner to the bag or the runner beats the ball.

It can look like there’s a tie, but it’s up to the umpire to determine which happened first.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:45:58 +0000

Chris, I’d relate “tie goes to the runner” to how many people assume the giant, green monster is Frankenstein, when actually it is nameless (also attributed as Frankenstein’s monster).

By: The Common Man/www.platoonadvantage.com

The Common Man/www.platoonadvantage.com — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:36:10 +0000

Compared to the other shortstops he played with, I have to go with Honus Wagner. He was listed as 5’11″ and 200 lbs and is pretty clearly the best shortstop of all time anyway.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:30:35 +0000

I didn’t think Mitchell got that big until he went to SF, and got hooked up with the guys at BALCO.

By: ddorf50

ddorf50 — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:55:45 +0000

Kevin Mitchell played a number of games at short for the Mets in the mid 80s–and he was a VERY BIG guy.

By: donniebb23

donniebb23 — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:14:34 +0000

And clearly if you haven’t heard it it can’t POSSIBLY be true, since you’re the master of the baseball universe and all

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:10:40 +0000

Tell that to Dallas Braden.

By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward

Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:09:56 +0000

FROM http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~rickert/BB/avgSSleaders.html:
***
The tallest regular shortstops
6’4″ Cal Ripken
6’3″ Bill Almon, Ron Hansen, Jeff Huson, Derek Jeter, Tony Kubek, Andre Rodgers, Alex Rodriguez, Roy Smalley Sr., Virgil Stallcup
6’2.5″ Jerry Kindall

The shortest regular shortstops
5’3″ Dickey Pearce
5’4″ Davy Force, Billy Gilbert
5’5″ Sparky Adams, Bill Keister, Rabbit Maranville, Tom McMillan, Fred Patek, Jackie Taverner
5’5.5″ Bill McClellan

The heaviest regular shortstops
The weights of these players are taken (mostly) from Total Baseball which gives a “career weight” for most of the players listed in the TB.
215 lbs. Cal Ripken
200 lbs. Hubie Brooks, Ron Hansen, Jim Peoples, Andre Rodgers, Honus Wagner
198 lbs. Tim Bogar
195 lbs. Phil Lewis
191 lbs. Tony Kubek, Tom Tresh

The lightest regular shortstops
The weights of these players are taken (mostly) from Total Baseball which gives a “career weight” for most of the players listed in the TB.
129 lbs. Zeb Terry
130 lbs. Davy Force, Tom McMillan, Jim Snyder
138 lbs. Joe Bean, Mike McGeary, Jackie Tavener
140 lbs. Donie Bush, Ike Davis, John Radcliffe
143 lbs. Harvey McClellan
144 lbs. Houston Jimenez, Henry Kessler
If any one can explain to me why there are three shortstops at 138 pounds (but none at 139,137,136,135,…) I’d love to hear from them.
***
NOTE: This data seems dated and I have no clue how to substantiate it.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:08:48 +0000

My first thought was Joel Guzman, who was fairly enormous. He is listed at 245 pounds, leaving unanswered the question of how much he would weigh if he put his other foot on the scale. (Yes, I just stole an old Bill James quip.) However, Joel Guzman had largely moved off of shortstop by the time he played in the majors in 2006-07, playing just 9 innings at shortstop.

By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward

Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:04:37 +0000

30 years and you still don’t know “a lot” is two words? LOLZ!

By: ThatGuy

ThatGuy — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:03:37 +0000

What people say doesn’t make it a rule.

By: vatvslpr

vatvslpr — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:57:36 +0000

Sorry, no. According to the rule book, the throw has to beat the runner. It’s 6.05(j):

A batter is out when— 6.05:
(j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base

If the ball doesn’t beat the runner, he’s safe.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:51:24 +0000

I don’t know, but some catchers might give him a run. Bengie Molina could stand to drop a few.

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:43:30 +0000

And yet umpires are human and replay is not available on those types of plays and blah, blah, blah…

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:43:20 +0000

@jgreiner…unless the play is the 27th out of a perfect game and Jim Joyce is the first base umpire ;P

By: O.Handwasher

O.Handwasher — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:39:28 +0000

Yes, the tie goes to the runner. And a pitch in the strike zone is a strike. And a homerun ball a fan interferes with is an out.

But we have humans who screw up these calls all the time. The tie goes to whoever the ump says it goes to, because he’s the ump. Or, to quote Yoda:

“No! Tie not! Safe, or safe not. There is no tie.”

By: jgreiner9

jgreiner9 — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:39:23 +0000

that was a so-called rule that was made up in little league. there is no such rule in baseball. ive played in high school, division 1 college and rookie ball and there is no such thing period. he has to beat the throw, or have the ball pull the first baseman off the bag, but because he might “tie” it doesnt mean hes automatically safe. hell its a judgement call anyway which might have gone either way, but when a fielder makes a great play on a ball and the play at first is bang-bang, 95% of the time the runner is going to be out.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:39:04 +0000

LOLZ learn something new every day I guess. However, I have never heard anyone say, on a play at first base, that it was a tie so the runner is out. NEVER. And I have watched alot of games over the last 30 years.

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:37:52 +0000

Matt Williams played shortstop. Does he count? Was he fat, or just a muscular guy for the position?

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:33:24 +0000

I take this thread to mean that we can’t think of any hefty shortstops, Aaron.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:32:11 +0000

Chris, you’re wrong. The rule book does not say anything about “tie goes to the runner.” However, there is this, which is Rule 6.05(j) from the MLB rule book (defining how runners can be called out)…

After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he
touches first base.

“Tie goes to the runner” is an assumption made from this rule, but is not necessarily true.

By: aarcraft

aarcraft — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:31:18 +0000

Chris, you are wrong. The official rule states “a runner is out if: he fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.” If he does not reach the base BEFORE the fielder tags the base, then he is out. If he is tied, then its not before, and he is out. I know we’ve always heard that the tie goes to the runner, but as is the case with a lot of things we have always heard, its wrong.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:20:52 +0000

Am I living in the 4th dimension here? The tie goes to the runner. It always has. What planet are you guys living on? We can debate whether he got there the same time as the ball…it was close, but I think it was a tie…and the tie goes to the runner.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:18:56 +0000

Um, sorry, but a tie goes to the runner. Don’t know what rulebook you are referring to, but everyone knows that the tie goes to the runner. It was a bang-bang play, and the umpire got it wrong. It didn’t affect the outcome of the game, but let’s not go too crazy for Uribe since Gload should have been called safe. Plus, he hit a game winning sac fly. The way everyone makes it sound, he beat the runner and hit a bomb to win it for the Giants. He did neither.

By: jgreiner9

jgreiner9 — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:18:40 +0000

theres no such thing as tie goes to the runner. hes got to beat the throw.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:13:11 +0000

It would make it about the 10th close call (with several being wrong) that went in the Giants’ favor this postseason.

By: josephabernard

josephabernard — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:11:19 +0000

Oops – take 2

I think the rulebook states that the runner actually has to beat the ball to the base to be safe – e.g. a tie does not go to the runner.

By: josephabernard

josephabernard — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:10:46 +0000

I think the rulebook states that the runner actually has to beat the ball to the base to be safe – e.g. a tie does not go to the runner.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:56:47 +0000

Not that it would have necessarily changed much, but I thought from every angle, Gload was tied with the throw, making him safe. Wouldn’t that make it a play that was nice, but one where he caught a break because of a bad call?