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Poll: Do you agree with Felix Hernandez winning Cy Young?

Nov 18, 2010, 2:22 PM EDT

  1. BC - Nov 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM

    NO!!

    • Utley's Hair - Nov 18, 2010 at 2:36 PM

      Man, I didn’t see Millwood listed anywhere. I tell you, it was rigged!!!!

      • Old Gator - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:02 PM

        There were plenty of other .500 pitchers, not to mention sub-500 pitchers who were clearly more deserving. There were even winless pitchers. So what if they were relievers?

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:20 PM

      YES!!

  2. apbaguy - Nov 18, 2010 at 2:59 PM

    Yes. I understand the traditionalist argument that wins= Cy Young. The award was named after the winningest pitcher of all time. But the award has evolved to now mean the best pitcher in a given year, as evidenced by Greinke’s win last year and now King Felix’ win. As I wrote earlier this year, he was the best pitcher I saw last year, and thankfully the stats supported my eyes. Cliff Lee had a case, but in my view King Felix was the winner.

    • BC - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:19 PM

      My stance is that wins count, but their not the sole determinant. Last year, Greinke had 3 wins less than the league leaders. Not a big difference. I call that one close enough. King Felix had NINE wins less than Sabathia, and if I recall right, SEVEN wins less than Price. That’s a huge difference. How you can give someone the Cy Young who had 59% of the wins that the league leader had is beyond me. And its not like Sabathia had a Lamarr Hoyt-like year. His ERA was good.
      And actually, my ballot would have had Price first, Sabathia second. Then I’d have King Felix, followed by Clay Buchholz.

      • ThatGuy - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:37 PM

        Its been said a hundred times, Wins are important for a team but a pitcher is only responsible for about 30% of the average win. Kieth Law did a good write up on it a couple months back. Why would you put so much importance on something that is largely out of the pitchers control. Maybe your right, maybe it is Herndendez’s fault that he got the loss or no decision in 13 starts because his team couldn’t manage more than one run. But I doubt it.

      • BC - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:42 PM

        So if wins count 30 percent….. take 30 percent of 9…. Sabathia still has 15.7 wins.
        The gap is too big to give it to Felix.
        Steve Carlton won 27 games for a Phillies team that won about 58 games. King Felix couldn’t manage to win a few more?

      • tomemos - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:46 PM

        BC: WHY should wins count 30%? Or 15%? Why should they count for anything? Why why why?

        I’ve yet to hear a good explanation for this, ever. People just say either that they’ve always counted (not a good reason) or that the most important thing is to win the game (faulty reasoning, since Hernandez has no power to win games). So I beg you, give me a good reason!

      • aarcraft - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:51 PM

        Explain to me how you can’t give someone the Cy Young who has 59% of the win total that the league leader has, but you have no problem giving the Cy Young to someone whose ERA is nearly a full run higher than the league leader.

      • tomemos - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:51 PM

        Responding to specific things you said:

        “And its not like Sabathia had a Lamarr Hoyt-like year. His ERA was good.”

        Fine. It was not nearly as good as Felix’s.

        “Steve Carlton won 27 games for a Phillies team that won about 58 games.”

        The Phillies scored a league-average number of runs for Carlton. Hernandez played for a team that scored a *historically* low number of runs, and scored *even less* when Hernandez was on the mound.

        “King Felix couldn’t manage to win a few more?”

        How? He led the league in ERA! Preventing runs is the only way a pitcher can “win” a game, particularly in the AL. What you’re saying is, “Hernandez led the league in ERA, but he needed to lead the league *more* to win the Cy Young. Sabathia, meanwhile, got plenty of wins while *not* leading the league in ERA, so his ERA was good enough.” How can a higher ERA be better than a lower one? It makes no sense!

      • BC - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:00 PM

        “Explain to me how you can’t give someone the Cy Young who has 59% of the win total that the league leader has, but you have no problem giving the Cy Young to someone whose ERA is nearly a full run higher than the league leader.”
        I wouldn’t. I’d give it to Price. His ERA is half a run lower than Sabathia, he was within 3 wins of CC, not 9.

      • spindervish - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:03 PM

        So you’re cool with Greinke winning despite a 3-win gap, yet your hypothetical 2.7-win gap between Felix and CC is “too big to give it to Felix.” Explain.

        Also, your little calculation there is flawed. If you really wanted to take that 30% number and compare, Felix gets 3.9 wins while CC gets 6.3. Difference is 2.4.

        Should I now pick an arbitrary dessert or pastry and pretend like it’s some sort of insult to be hurled in your direction?

      • samros624 - Nov 20, 2010 at 12:59 PM

        I can understand anyone’s vote for Sabathia, but let’s get our facts right. Hernandez has 8 less wins, not 9. His total was 62% of Sabathia’s, not 59%

        Personally, I love that the Cy Young is suppose to be given to the best pitcher. In 2010 Hernandez was the best pitcher. His ERA was significantly lower than Sabathia’s and he was more dominating in every category, except wins. Btw, he accounted for 21% of Seattle’s victories, CC 22% of the Yankees. The voters often don’t get it right; this time they did.
        Sam

  3. Jonny 5 - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:32 PM

    I’d like to think the man who pitched best, should be awarded. Sabathia’s success in wins came with a solid offense which he has nothing to do with. Unless cheering counts as Offense?

  4. getoutthemustard - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:51 PM

    RIGHT ON FELIX!
    Now win another one in 2011 for Dave Niehaus!

  5. jlsiii - Nov 18, 2010 at 3:56 PM

    I get it. Guy is a great pitcher but you have to go with wins on this one. He was a little above .500, how does that translate to cy young? A great pitcher on a crappy team can still find away to win – even with minimal run support. Perfect example… Steve Carlton 1972… 27-10, 1.97 ERA, 310 K’s… 27 wins on a team that only won a total of 59 games – Carlton single handedly was responsible for almost half of them. That’s a great pitcher stepping up. Feliz should have found a way to win more games. They had to score a few runs for him…

    CC or Price should have won. I am a Yankee fan so I’m a little biased to CC but if forced on the issue I would probably have given it to Price as Wins total was close w/ CC and he had a run less ERA.

    • BC - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:04 PM

      FINALLY! Someone who agrees with me! Thank you, jlsiii. This one’s for you:
      http://steelkaleidoscopes.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/21/fosters.gif

    • spindervish - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:08 PM

      This is such bullshit. Steve Carlton is not the “perfect example,” he’s the ONLY example. It’s an exception; an outlier.

      How exactly should Felix have “found a way” to win more? Seriously. What would you and the other imbeciles who make this statement have had him do?

      When you’re making the same argument as Skip Bayless, you really ought to reconsider your position.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:23 PM

      Feliz should have found a way to win more games.

      First, as a yanks fan, do you not remember his utter domination of the yanks this year? 3 games, 1 ER total given up? Second, actually look at the game logs. 17 games he pitched the Mariners lost, 12 against his record. In 9 of those 17 games, if Felix had given up only 2 runs in 9IP, you know how many more wins he’d have? ONE! The Mariners were the worst offensive team since ’71, which lead to the AL instituting the DH.

    • seattlej - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:24 PM

      Look at Steve Carlton’s run support vs. Felix’s run support for those two seasons. There’s a pretty big difference there. Too lazy, I’ll do it for you:

      Carlton’s run support (league average in parentheses) = 3.8 (3.91), Felix’s = 3.1 (4.45). So, in 1972 the Phillies gave Carlton pretty close to league average run support (about 3% below average). In 2010 the Mariners gave Felix 1.35 runs below average (30% below average). That’s a HUGE difference.

      Oh, also, let’s not forget that these are two different eras that you’re comparing. Carlton started 41 games in ’72, Felix started 34 games in ’10. That’s 17% more opportunities to get one of the coveted “Ws”.

      As you can see, this comparison is ridiculous.

  6. seattlej - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:01 PM

    Judging by these results, it looks like the readership here is less baseball savvy than the BBWAA. 30% no, Ouch!

    • yankeesfanlen - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:09 PM

      It was really only 26%, I voted 32 times. Hopes this helps and the Mariners win more than 13 games next year.

      • seattlej - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:30 PM

        Logic fail. You lose.

  7. collabfab - Nov 18, 2010 at 4:15 PM

    All Hail the KING!!!!

    I get so irritated by the “wins still matter” crowd. Of course wins matter.

    This is beating the decomposed and splattered remains of a dead horse, but wins matter for the team, and in context, Felix’s record is not indicative of his pitching: it is indicative of his TEAM (mostly, his offense). He was superior to Price and Sabathia in every metric but wins, and it is clear why: the Seattle Mariners were a bad team, But this was not just any ordinary bad team, like your typical Royals, Oriels, or Pirates. The 2010 Seattle Mariners were one of the worst offensive teams in baseball history. They scored the fewest runs in the DH era (think about that). 100 runs fewer than any team in the AL (including the awful Indians). They gave Felix the LOWEST run support of any starter in the MLB. When you look at the run support that Felix got vs what Price and Sabbathia got (3rd and 1st respectively), well, it becomes ever so evident why that 13-12 record is a reflection of the offense. This has been discussed ad nauseum.

    We could dive in to other instances of a poor Mariner bullpen – Larry Stone wrote a great little piece on a good chunk of potential wins easily spoiled by the bullpen, namely Brandon League.

    I was surprised Felix got 21 of 28. I thought it was an easy choice to give him the Cy, but it appears that a good chunk of voters did their homework. Kudos.

  8. Reflex - Nov 18, 2010 at 8:19 PM

    I just want to know what Steve Carlton supposedly did to get those other Wins, and how in better years he didn’t just win every game because apparantly he has a magical ability to get Wins at will compared to other pitchers. What was Carlton’s batting line that year anyways?

  9. Walk - Nov 19, 2010 at 12:06 AM

    I think the right player won but there are arguements for price in my eyes to win as well and maybe even cc. The way i see it is if you have one game to win, and can pick one pitcher from the past season to pitch it, who pitches for you? Thats your cy young pitcher for that league. Yes wins acount big and it just looks bad that a 13 win pitcher got the cy but i believe the voters got it right and in the right order.

  10. bigxrob - Nov 19, 2010 at 1:38 AM

    For the people who think wins matter so much:
    If Felix’s numbers were exactly the same (same ERA, IP, SO, BB, etc) but his team scored more runs and his record was 20 – 9, then you would think he was the best pitcher?

  11. Walk - Nov 19, 2010 at 4:50 PM

    This one made me think a lot. I love to win. I am happy that felix won. But.. Which season would you want if you were a pro? 22 win season or 13 win season? Almost a no brainer but then you see the 13 win got the cy young award which trumps it. As much as i would hate to lose the 9 wins i think i would take the 13 win season and the cy. I saw king felix being asked about the award, he was happy, he looked every bit a WINNER.

  12. gsmith020 - Nov 20, 2010 at 9:38 AM

    Game has become to much about stats. Its all about win/loss record.

  13. samros624 - Nov 20, 2010 at 1:02 PM

    Sabathia had 8 more wins, not 9. 21-13 is 8. Hernandez had 62% of CC’s total, not 59%

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