Comments on: Jonathan Papelbon likely to ask for $11.5 million in arbitration

By: airborne22

airborne22 — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 15:51:10 +0000

I agree that Pap has been “off his game”, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have value to the Red Sox. Many closers have been moved into other slots in the bullpen. He would make an excellent SU pitcher for Bard, and could also slip in and out of the closer role again as needed. The issue is that when EVERYONE knows you are going to through fastballs, it is easy to sit and wait for the one you like. If he could develop another pitch or two, he could become and elite closer once again.

To those Yankee fans out there who think Pap is a waste of money, look at your own closer. While Mo is outstanding, what team does he have the most problems with? That’s right, the Red Sox. He has blown more saves vs. the Sox, than any other team. Does that make him worthless, no, not at all.

Sometimes this rivalry is just about arguing and jabbing at one another and has little to do with playing the game. I look forward to the 2011 season and can almost promise that the Sox and the Yanks will be playing in the ALCS. Always a good match-up.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 20 Nov 2010 01:51:02 +0000

To Dan1111 – I’m not sure what you mean by peripheral numbers. For a closer I would think the critical numbers are blown saves, ERA, WHIP, BAA. For a closer Papelbon’s numbers in all 4 for 2010 were terrible. 8 blown saves ties him for the most in the ML’s with any closer with 30 or more save. His 3.90 ERA is the highest of any closer in the ML’s with 30 or more saves, his WHIP is 3rd highest of any closer in the ML’s with 30 or more saves and finally his BAA is the 5th worst and any closer in the ML’s with 30 or more saves. Not the type of performance that warrants a 25% pay raise. I understand your comment about the draft choices, but if the Red Sox have an alternative to Papelbon (and most Red Sox fans I’ve spoken to think Bard should be their closer), I’m just not sure the prospect of getting draft choices for him should be the determining factor in letting him go to arbitration.

By: Glenn

Glenn — Sat, 20 Nov 2010 01:20:46 +0000

Unless you are a Yankee fan, as a fan you believe that your closer is overrated. It doesn’t matter what city you are in.

By: WhenMattStairsIsKing

WhenMattStairsIsKing — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:57:46 +0000

Remind me again of all of Theo’s embarrassing moves?

By: dan1111

dan1111 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:39:48 +0000

Papelbon may or may not be worth $11,000,000 to the Sox for his play alone. However, his value also includes the draft picks they will get when he leaves as a Type A free agent (or, alternatively, the return they get in a trade). The Sox will not just give that up by non-tendering him.

Plus, people are likely underrating Papelbon at this point due to one subpar season. From 2006-2009 he was arguably the best reliever in baseball. And even last year his peripheral numbers were very good.

By: frankvzappa

frankvzappa — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:30:17 +0000

theo is an idiot and can be expected to make at least a couple stupid moves a year, and this looks to be another one…for the love of god, get rid of this has been

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 18:09:18 +0000

To Ralphie – I’m sure phukyouk can respond to your reply if he chooses. But I will respond for myself since you included Yankee fans in your reply. I personally do NOT hate Papelbon. In fact just the opposite. I think he is perhaps the best thing to happen in the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry since the Sox gave Beckett his 4 year extension at the very beginning of last season. Just so that you understand why I like Papelbon in a Red Sox uniform you need look no further then his numbers this year. Considering the 2 teams play each other 18 times, for a Yankee fan that’s like getting a Christmas present 18 times. That’s why Yankee fans love Beckett also, it’s like Christmas every time he pitches.

By: Ralphie

Ralphie — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:52:36 +0000

Hated by who? You, and your Yankee Trolls? Because he’s been bold enough to tell you and the other NYY dopes to GFY? And WTF do you know about what the “sox” players think?

By the way, anyone who names their kid after a “sports star” – excuse me, “a status symbol” is a dbag. If you really need to do that to boost your ego you should take the tough guy route and name him “Walker Texas Ranger”. He’s more of a status symbol that Jeter.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:25:32 +0000

To phukyouk – I’m not sure I understand your post. I never said Jeter deserved any specific compensation in my post above. I merely said any criteria that I was applying to Papelbon was appropriate to Jeter. Specifically he should be paid on what he is worth now and in the immediate future to the Yankees. As Jeter was paid for his past performance and now should be paid for what is to come. I do not believe in a sense of entitlement for athletes. Is Jeter deserving of a new contract, absolutely. But that amount and length should be determined by present conditions not past performance. No question Jeter has been the face of the Yankees, but the Yankees are bigger then any one player including Jeter. In time a new face of the Yankees will emerge as he always has. There have been many faces of the Yankees over the years and there will be many in the future. As a Yankee fan since the mid 50′s that is one thing you can take to the bank.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:15:54 +0000

To Detroit – I do know how Papelbon’s 2010 salary was determined. He accepted the $9.35M salary in 2010 in arbitration he could have asked for $14M last year if he wanted to and if the arbitrator agreed with him he would have received it. I do not subscribe to the theory that any athlete is paid below fair market value even during his 1st 3 years when he is not eligible for arbitration. The club assumes all the risk of how a player will perform. Once arbitration kicks in if the player is confident in his case he case submit a number in line with his piers. In any case as I posted before he was paid for his past performance whether that pay was representative of his performance is irrelevant at this point. He should be paid on his value to the club now and what it he is expectation is during the length of any new contract.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:48:50 +0000

You do know that Papelbon’s 2010 salary was not determined by supply & demand, right?, but instead through a collectively bargained system that allows Papelbon’s employer to pay him below market wages (only partially corrected by the arbitration system) for the first several years of his professional career. That’s how he can ask for and expect an almost 25% raise, because last year’s compensation didn’t reflect his fair market value.

By: Ace

Ace — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:47:31 +0000

Hey, he really was an elite closer for a few years there. Just . . .not so much these days. I’d be thrilled if the Sox could trade him for something useful, but I hear the market for Paps has been extremely weak this offseason (little surprise there). So yeah, I think maybe they ought to let him walk. 11.5 mil could bring in plenty of bullpen help from the FA market, and they already have a younger, better, cheaper closer on the team in Daniel Bard.

By: phukyouk

phukyouk — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:44:43 +0000

@ uyf – I bleed blue and would name my first son Derek Jeter (if my wife wouldn’t divorce me) but i am going to disagree with you. Jeter as a Ball player does not deserve more than a three yr 40 Mil contract . Jeter as the face of the most storied franchise in sports history. as the face of an entire sport deserves the sky in regards to $$$ not years. Jeter is more than a ball player he a status symbol. Pap-smear is one of the most hated Figures in baseball. noone on the sox can stand the guy and his name would be forgotten if not for the fact that he was part of the 2007 team.

By: Space Escalator

Space Escalator — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:25:25 +0000

Or at least the slowest. Yikes, the defense must hate playing behind him. Maybe that can be an arbitration angle: most naps between pitches.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:23:13 +0000

I think the Red Sox should sign him to at least a 3 year $40M extension. After all how many other closers can you name that finished last season with a 5-7 win/loss record, an ERA of 3.90 and 8 blown saves. Only in american professional sports can a person blow away his previous years numbers (and not in a good way) and ask for and expect almost a 25% raise.
Before anyone brings up the subject of Jeter. In my opinion my comment applies to him as well. Again, in my opinion athlete’s negotiating a new contract should expect to be paid and judged on their most recent performance and future expectations. Not on what they may have accomplished 2, 3 or more years ago.

By: phukyouk

phukyouk — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:18:09 +0000

MOST.OVERRATED.PLAYER.EVER!!!!!!!!!!

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:17:57 +0000

Nope. Contreras, Madson, Lidge. All capable of closing. And Conteras and Madson are total deals, as well as beautiful set up guys capable of going multiple innngs. The Phillies wouldn’t spend that kind of loot imo on another pen arm. Lidge is bringing in 12 million per, and Madson is up over 5 million I think… I think they’re going to be all over the clearance rack for bullpen guys, and save their money for whatever happens in the OF this winter.

By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward

Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:11:46 +0000

Let Papeldouche go if you know what’s good for ya, Red Sox nation.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:09:40 +0000

team more willing to pay that much for a 30-year-old closer showing various signs of decline

Wtf, he’s 30?
[runs and checks bref.com]
Wow he is 30 (well technically on tues), and still hasn’t hit FA yet.

By: BC

BC — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:50:55 +0000

Think the Phillies could use him?