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Reader Dissent: Derek Jeter edition

Nov 30, 2010, 1:30 PM EDT

Derek Jeter

We’ve talked a lot about how, for Casey Close to get any leverage, he has to get another team in on the Derek Jeter bidding.  But there are other constituencies at his disposal. No, they’re not as strong as having a competing offer on the table, but there is a certain brand of Yankees fan who agree with reader metalhead65 that Jeter is worth whatever he asks for:*

Are things really this slow in baseball that you have constantly bombard us with your anti-Jeter rants? You obviously have a personal agenda against the guy who is doing what every free agent does and that is try get as much as possible and since this will be his last contract who can blame the guy? And again please spare me all your stats real and made up ones. We get it he had an off year and is getting older so what? While the Yankees would continue to win without him he is still, like it or not, the face of the franchise. It does not mean anything to you, we get that, but he does to the fans of that franchise and to the city of New York. Now that doesn’t mean they have to pay him but it also does not mean you have to write a column about how he does not deserve it every 5 minutes and point out all his flaws as a player.

I don’t think the Yankees are going to take this kind of sentiment into account as they negotiate and I don’t believe that it will ultimately impact Jeter’s ultimate deal. But it’s not like Jeter and Close are completely inventing the notion of Jeter’s value beyond mere baseball terms. Some people believe it.

*edited slightly for readability

  1. Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Nov 30, 2010 at 1:34 PM

    I stand by my retort to the original, unreadable version of this comment.

    • joshfrancis50 - Nov 30, 2010 at 1:39 PM

      Are you sying peopel should use more spaces and commas?no way I dont like’m so give me more what want ikeep reading webpage even thought I hate you why?I hate you.

      • Utley's Hair - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:17 PM

        Well said—I think…?

  2. joshfrancis50 - Nov 30, 2010 at 1:36 PM

    Can you please stop it with your made up stats?

  3. yankeesfanlen - Nov 30, 2010 at 1:41 PM

    Just don’t ask me to defend to the death his right to say such tripe. Must be in the great succession of “c’mon man” and “Mark my words” from the past.
    Think I’ll start throwing in a few Blue Network asides again.

  4. yetisizz - Nov 30, 2010 at 1:41 PM

    The only thing that I agree with is questioning if all of this is really news worthy? Is this a product of the 24-hour news cycle where ” “the press has moved toward sensationalism, entertainment, and opinion” and away from traditional values of verification, proportion, relevance, depth, and quality of interpretation.”

  5. diamondduq - Nov 30, 2010 at 1:49 PM

    While those like Craig and all the other Yankee/Jeter haters are taking great pleasure in this and believe 2010 is as good as Jeter will be until the end of his career, apparently a stance the Yankees have taken as well, I and many others, including Jeter’s camp, feel he’s closer to 2009 than 2010 and that 1 bad year shouldn’t define a player’s worth.

    That being said, this is all fairly simple. 3 yrs/$45 million is probably a good place to start. Throw in a 4th year, maybe as an option, and tack on incentives that could get Jeter to his $20-$25 million/yr. If he is really closer to 2009 or is really the player he still believes he is then “X” amount of dollars for hitting .300, .310, 3.20, etc. and “X” amount of dollars for 10, 15, 20, etc. homeruns and, well you can see where this is going, shouldn’t be too difficult for Jeter to swallow. It’ll be one of those “well I’ll show you and get my money in the process”. Obviously there could be award escalators (GG,SS,MVP,Batting Title, etc.) as well as team performance bonuses (Playoffs,WS Title,100+ wins, etc.)

    Why is professional sports so complicated all the time? It’s simple. Yankees: “We don’t think you’re that player anymore so we’re not going to guarantee that much money.” Jeter: “I am that player and when my numbers show it, then give me my damn money.” Both: “Deal!”

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:00 PM

      Well said. As a Yankee-hater, this is extremely entertaining BUT it is clear to most of us that a bit of compromise would go a long way here (and will likely occur soon enough) to appease the Yankees, Jeter and their fans. Until then, Craig, keep up the good work. It is easy enough for people tired of the Jeter updates to simply move past those posts. For the rest of us, let’s keep watching the two choo-choo trains as they approach collision.

      • Jonny 5 - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM

        Amen my brotha!!! Is it that hard to not click the link??? I’m enjoying this so much, I’m thinking of calling Jeter’s agent on behalf of the Giants or Sox just to drag it out longer…. What do you think I should offer? 100 million for 5 ???

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:22 PM

      I and many others, including Jeter’s camp, feel he’s closer to 2009 than 2010 and that 1 bad year shouldn’t define a player’s worth.

      Why though? Looking at his last 4 years, ’09 is obviously the outlier and not ’10. If he’s a 3WAR player for the next 3-4 years, a $15M/yr deal is overpaying him by about 5-6M. Say the difference is for non-production value, but no way he’s worth beyond that. Also, all those performance bonuses are not allowed by the CBA (BA, HR, etc).

    • uyf1950 - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:28 PM

      As a Yankee fan, I’m not a big fan of incentives built into a contract for a player that is already being paid or will be paid a substantial amount over fair market value. Incentives I guess are OK for players that are undervalued or underpaid and certainly can be used as a means to increase their compensation based on performance. I don’t believe incentives built into a offer merely for the sake of increasing an already inflated offer is a good idea. The Yankees have placed what they believe to be a more then fair value on Jeter and his contract. Why would they or should they add incentives to an already inflated offer? Just so Jeter can save face. If Jeter and those fans that support his position are so confident that 2011 will look more like 2009 then 2010 let him sign a 1 year deal and renegotiate again after next season. When if his numbers increase he will be in a position to negotiate from strength. Is that so difficult for people to understand?

    • supersnappy - Nov 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

      Although I like the idea of paying based on performance, MLB contract rules forbid it. The closest you can get are incentives related to playing time (games, innings pitched, plate appearances, etc) or getting votes for awards (Cy Young, MVP, etc)

      • supersnappy - Nov 30, 2010 at 6:30 PM

        Oops, I had meant to reply to diammonduq’s idea above, sorry for any confusion!

  6. Jason @ IIATMS - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:15 PM

    As a Yankee fan and great fan of HBT, I do not think Craig (or any of the other talented guys here) are anti-Jeter or anti-Yankee. They all have their rooting biases, as would be expected, but that doesn’t mean they hate the Yanks.

    /except maybe for that Gleeman dude because he’s a Twins fan and all. He’s got a reason.

  7. Utley's Hair - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:16 PM

    Craig, I question your use of the word “slightly” up there.

  8. metalhead65 - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM

    craig,thanks alot for pointing out all my punction and spelling errors.that’s why I go to message boards to be learn these things.way to point out how you disagree with my view. anyway keep up the good work we are waiting for the next article on jeter and his salary. what’s it been 10 min.?

    • Jonny 5 - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:24 PM

      That’s the spirit buddy, just go with the flow…..

    • Craig Calcaterra - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:25 PM

      The purpose of Reader Dissents is to put forth points of view that are different than mine. Yours differed, and it was worth giving to other readers in a more prominent location. If you didn’t want to share it with others, why did you comment in the first place?

      As for the errors, sorry, but I felt that it was better for people to engage your point rather than to take shots at your writing mechanics, so I thought I was doing you a favor. My note about the edits was in the interests of transparency, and I do it every time I reproduce a reader comment or email.

  9. jkay123 - Nov 30, 2010 at 2:51 PM

    taking runs, hits, sb’s avg, rbis into acct etc..how did jeter stack up against every shortstop in baseball this yr? and were any of them even close to being 36 yrs old? Not to mention his RBI total was decent for a leadoff guy, even coming off the worst season of his career. I dont get it, in 16 yrs he has had one bad season, but teams pay ridiculous contracts to guys who have had one good yr, in their walk yr. If this was ripken at this age everyone would be saluting him and saying he deserves whatever he wants, and dont start with the ripken has better stats, because he doesnt and Jeter will end his career wiping the floor in every category except Homers.

    • tomemos - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:07 PM

      What do you mean “not to mention RBI”? You mentioned it twice. If you play for the Yankees you’re going to get a lot of RBI and runs.

      I don’t understand the argument that, since guys get “ridiculous” contracts coming off a good walk year, Jeter should also get a ridiculous contract coming off a bad walk year. Ridiculous contracts are bad, no? That’s what makes them ridiculous.

    • Jonny 5 - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:13 PM

      Man, Jeter is already wiping the floor in the Homer category, just listen to yourself…. ;)

      • Utley's Hair - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM

        D’OH!!!!!

    • uyf1950 - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM

      You know one other big difference. Ripken for the last 6 years of his career through 2001 averaged $6.5M per in salary. Quite a difference from the $19M per Jeter has averaged the past 10 years and the $15M per the Yankees are currently offering. Does the disparity in their numbers justify the disparity in their pay? Granted it’s 9 years later but Jeter’s looking to make 3 times what Ripken made when both were or at the end or near the end of their careers. You decide.

  10. jkay123 - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:17 PM

    I was saying that people get paid absurd contracts for having one good season and about 7 sub par seasons, where as he has 1 bad season in 16 and that’s all people are harping on, totally discrediting a hall of fame career.

    • tomemos - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:23 PM

      How does it discredit anything? Even Hall-of-Famers get old and decline. No one is saying, “Don’t sign Jeter,” or “sign him for one year, 2.5 mil.” The offer on the table is excellent for a player of his age and current level of production.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:31 PM

      where as he has 1 bad season in 16 and that’s all people are harping on, totally discrediting a hall of fame career.

      For the umpteenth time, what is so difficult about getting you guys to understand that ’10 wasn’t a one time bad season, and ’09 was indicative of the true talent level of [his worshipfullness] Derek Jeter:

      fWAR:
      ’07 – 3.5
      ’08 – 3.7
      ’09 – 7.1
      ’10 – 2.5

      as the song goes, one of these things is not like the other. one of these things just doesn’t belong. Since ’06, where he had a legimate argument for MVP (Mauer should have won, not Morneau), his K rate has dropped but so has his BB rate (most likely because he’s swinging at more pitches early in the count). His power has dropped from a .140ish ISO to .100. While he’s hitting fewer LDs, he’s increasing his GB% which goes for hits more often, but less power [obviously]. His BABIP was significantly less than the prior year, but even a correction in that isn’t going to get him back to a 5+WAR levels. 3/45M is more than enough if he returns to a 3-4WAR/yr player, but even that isn’t guaranteed.

      • thinman61 - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:01 PM

        Now there you go using them newfangled made-up stats again. ;)

  11. yankees1996 - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:29 PM

    Derek Jeter just completed a 10 year $189 million contract and he has been paid well for his services over the last 10 years. If Jeter and his agent want to ask for some incredible amount of money then that indeed is his right but it is also the right of the Yankees to say thank you, but no thank you. Jeters’ new contract is going to be based on and he is going to be paid for his on-field performance only. He has been paid for his prior achievements and awards and he should not be paid for them again. I want to see Jeter return to and retire from the Yankees but I do not want to see the Yankees ruin the future of the team to resign a 36 year old SS with diminishing skills. I like Jeter, always have but he needs to realize and understand that this is the last train ride and he needs to get on board and move on.

  12. Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:41 PM

    Everyone should read these comments and all other comments related to Craig’s Jeter posts and try to tell me this isn’t the most exciting thing going on in baseball right now. As much as I think the dissenters are wrong, please don’t stop dissenting! Your voices must be heard so that I can bash on something/someone (FIORENTINO WHERE YOU AT SUCKA!!!???!???!).

    Craig, please don’t stop talkin’ Jeter until we’ve raised the zombie horse from the dead and subsequently kill it again with a steak through it’s undead horse heart.

    • Utley's Hair - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:51 PM

      Mmmm…steeeaaak…

      • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:17 PM

        Ah, damn, I’m now a hypocrite. I bashed on the grammar of two other commentors today and then misused “steak” for “stake.”

        Waiter, can I have some crow with that horse-meat and velveeta sandwich? Thank you.

    • yankeesfanlen - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:55 PM

      Then we’re all invited to Ol’ Gators for horsemeat and Velveeta sandwiches!

      • Utley's Hair - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM

        Sweet…since it’s been quite tenderized by now.

  13. jkay123 - Nov 30, 2010 at 3:57 PM

    Im just baffled why people care so much and why everyone is so enraged about what he will be paid and not paid. Who cares, why does anyone care what the yankees give him? Give me a break.

    • tomemos - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:00 PM

      That’s what you’re reduced to? “You may be right, but you shouldn’t care”? We care for the same reason you do: it’s fun to care.

  14. Chris Fiorentino - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:07 PM

    My ears were ringing and I figured Cerrano was calling my name so I checked the blog and…what a surprise…he was.

    Look, Craig can write a million articles on Jeter’s contract. He can say that Jeter needs another team bidding on his services. But he would be totally WRONG on that front. You guys can continue to spout Jeter’s WAR the last 4 years. You guys can continue to worry about what Jeter’s BA, OBP, xFIP, Dewan, blah blah blah.

    Here’s the magic # when it comes to Jeter…at least in JETER’S EYES…74. That’s the magic number. 74. What is 74? 74 is the number of hits Jeter needs to do something that NO OTHER YANKER HAS EVER DONE. Get 3,000 hits in the pinstripes. Period(LOL).

    And for that, he is bidding against one man…one contract…one “legend”. That man is Alex Rodriguez, or “A-Rod”. A-Rod will be getting $30 million dollars for taking 5 swings of the bat. For hitting his steroid-tainted #660, 714, 755, 763 and 764 home runs. $6 million each. And they want to pay Jeter as much for the next two years that they are going to pay A-Rod for 5 swings? Bleh.

    Yeah, they are trying not to make another contract mistake but why are they starting with Derek Jeter? El Capitan? He helped bring 5 World Series titles to the Yankers. 5 rings. And what’s he get for it? Fiscal sanity for one of the first times in Yanker history? Bleh.

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:25 PM

      Ah, welcome back, my nemesis. I’m glad you felt my presence in your mind’s eye. I am now sure that my voodoo mind intrusions are bearing fruit. Beware as my telepathic, mindflare-esque, brain-sucking psionicist abilities will be terrorizing you again soon.

      Oh and by the way, the Bears stomped your Eagles! WOOOOOO!

    • tomemos - Nov 30, 2010 at 4:30 PM

      Chris, I don’t think anyone even knows what your point is anymore (“anymore?” I hear people ask). Are you saying that Jeter deserves this money or just that he wants it? The Yankees also brought fiscal sanity to the Bernie Williams and Johnny Damon negotiations, so I don’t see why they should be anxious to abandon it here.

      • spindervish - Dec 1, 2010 at 12:04 PM

        Why do you even bother to engage him? He’s an idiot who speaks (writes) in absolutes about his half-baked opinions, which betray a wildly distorted perspective that he seems to mistake for some single universal reality to which every other sports fan is beholden.

  15. marinermousse - Nov 30, 2010 at 8:40 PM

    Maybe the Yankees should pull their offer off the table completely and go in a different direction. They can then either go out and trade for Stephen Drew (longer term solution) or sign Cabrera or Renteria (till the better crop of FA SS next year), save the money and sign Jason Werth AND Cliff Lee. I think the fans would forget Jeter pretty fast…given how much NY Yankee fans are for “winners” and not very loyal. They would have a better offensive team since Drew is probably better than Jeter (with Cabrera or Renteria, perhaps a push at this stage) and of course Werth would pick them up defensively and offensively in the OF, with Swisher becoming DH and Werth playing CF against LHP, with Swisher in Right and Posada then the DH on those days. They use Gardner as a true leadoff hitter and he outdoes Jeter by far!!

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