Comments on: So: how good is the Phillies rotation?

By: teleco4

teleco4 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 20:18:39 +0000

The Giants still have the type of rotation that can beat them in the playoffs. Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, and Sanchez are just as good as the Phils top 4. Telephone Systems in NY and NJ

By: handsfour

handsfour — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:32:16 +0000

Thanks for the story. Happy holidays and best wishes for the surgery.

By: sayheykidwschamp

sayheykidwschamp — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:09:38 +0000

I hate all this best ever talk about teams/players still playing. But the Braves are the best that I have SEENsince ’75. I cannot speak of staffs before that based on just stats. But with all their greatness, they only won 1 championship. So the best regular season staff?

Phillies and Giants are still making their case for greatness. But the Phillies have fewer years since their top 3 are on the wrong side of 30. And Hamels youth does not compare to the Giants youth. Aside from Zito, the Giants staff are all pretty young. And Sanchez is still on the good side of 30. And the Giants have another 1-2 starters in the wings ready to take over after 2012 in Wheeler and Runzler. So the youth of the Giants staff will be maintained for many years beyond 2012.

Regualar season matchups are pretty even between both clubs with the Phillies having a 1 game advantage I believe. But it is hard to gauge for 2011 when Oslwalt was on the Astros and Lee was playing on the team of the month. So having all the pieces together for Phillies should make it a lock for them to contend for the Division championship. But at the end of the day, the Giants mediocre hitters and great young pitchers beat Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels and Lee when it counted the most…in the post season.

I look forward to hopefully both teams playing against each other in the post season so that the Giants aren’t dismissed as having caught lighting in a bottle like many are saying for 2010. Because if the Phillies really want to capture the best staff in all NL title, they have to beat the defending champs…SF Giants! And those are the facts!

By: perfectionrecords

perfectionrecords — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 17:56:12 +0000

Sorry until they win a championship, or even a division for that matter, the Giants are a better rotation. The Giants do their winning with half the run support the Phillies have. And the Braves rotation sustained their winning ways for years, this rotation has not thrown a pitch, in my opinion this column is Bush League!

By: nickbartow

nickbartow — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:29:27 +0000

last nite my son came home from the air force a week early to spend the next few weeks with his family and he surprise me by hiding on my front porch with a buddy of his. needless to say they scared the s%*% out of me. we exchange hugs and i immediately knew his mother would be so happy to see him when she gets home. later on when she came home he surprised her and she kissed and hugged him a half dozen times. later on we saw a short sports comment how just maybe the phils could get lee. we brushed it off and thought it could not happen. we watched the mnf game and went to bed while my son stayed up with his friends laughing and having fun till late well on about 1am he burst into our bedroom and says mom you awake and ofcourse mom sleeps like a rock but i awoke and said whats up and he blurts out “the phils signed cliff lee” i said i’ll tell her when she wakes. he went back downstairs and i could not control myself and woke up mom. i told her the phils signed cliff lee and she pep right up and said “wonderful i can’t believe it” she then rolled over and i heard her say in a very sleepy low voice “today was a very very happy day” for a woman facing breast cancer surgery on the 21st she needed a little uplifting news and my son and cliff lee made that happen

By: florida727

florida727 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:40:32 +0000

I love all the “on paper” comparisons. But everyone knows games aren’t played on paper. They’re played inside television sets (courtesy of Kenny Mayne, ESPN).

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:18:02 +0000

Yeah, I went to bed early. I really didn’t expect to wake to this either.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:16:04 +0000

Explain how Hamels is clearly behind all of them please. He’s been in the Majors for 5 seasons total and he’s 26. He’s had 3 awesome seasons of the 5 3.39, 3.09, 3.06. You can’t compare him to any “HOF’er”. No, Not yet. You need to sit back and let him develop, maybe he’ll be a great, maybe he’ll have a blowout in his career? Who knows?

I have to say, and I’m a total Phillies fan.

This is not the best rotation in baseball “ever”. No, not yet. They have to “be” the best rotation in baseball “ever” first.

What they clearly are is the best rotation in baseball right now. And that’s what really matters.

By: chief5675

chief5675 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:03:04 +0000

Since results are what matter the most and the Yankees are far and away the most successful team in World Series wins and appearances why couldn’t you find one great set of pitchers to mention?
ancient history right? Rashi, Reynolds, Lopat and Bryne are the first group I remember with multiple World Series wins.

By: wonkypenguin

wonkypenguin — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:52:27 +0000

Phillies = Miami Heat of baseball.

Ladies and gentleman, the National League finally has their Yankees.

By: mcsnide

mcsnide — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:32:04 +0000

Did you sleep at all?

By: jkcalhoun

jkcalhoun — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:24:11 +0000

I don’t care what anyone says. That is, bar none, the best 4-man rotation ever to compile a cumulative sub-.500 won-loss record against the Giants (13-12 regular season, 2-5 postseason).

By: baseballtowntom

baseballtowntom — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:08:17 +0000

Yep we all know the postseason is a small sample size. Because Cliff is not earning 20 million per based on his regular season ERA being over 3.00 the past two years.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:57:22 +0000

I read something that piqued my interest yesterday. About how the Phillies, and how strong their farm system really is. At least one scout was quoted “The Phillies have the most talented A level players in baseball hands down. And they’re likely to go on a Braves like run for a good decade.” Interesting that their rotation is being so closely compared.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:48:42 +0000

Good Morning guys

http://www.youtube.com/e/0PvazkGoLfM

By: sdelmonte

sdelmonte — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:18:24 +0000

All I know is that those four wonders of pitching will be eating Mets bats this year. Eighteen times.

Almost makes me glad that Alderson isn’t trying to spend lots of money yet.

By: cktai

cktai — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:17:06 +0000

I looked at the numbers
Pettitte 240W 138L (63.5%), 6.63 K/9, 2.83 BB/9, 0.77 HR/9, 3.88 ERA, 1.38 WHIP, 3.72xFIP
Halladay 169W 86L (66.4%), 6.71 K/9, 1.90 BB/9, 0.77 HR/9, 3.32 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 3.23 xFIP
I laughed.

By: pipkin42

pipkin42 — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 07:22:15 +0000

Sample size, she is always relevant.

By: seeingwhatsticks

seeingwhatsticks — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 07:11:52 +0000

Also, that Smoltz comment is crazy talk Craig.

By: seeingwhatsticks

seeingwhatsticks — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 07:09:36 +0000

The Giants rotation is just as good and just beat all those guys en route to the championship. They can definitely make a claim to being better, and unlike some rotations they don’t project to fall off a cliff 2-3 years from now.

By: marinermousse

marinermousse — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 07:00:31 +0000

Nice to fantasize, but the 71 Orioles went with a 4 man rotation. With a 5 man rotation that all teams have today I doubt if you will ever see 4 20 game winners no matter how good the pitchers are and quite frankly, I think having 2 20 game winners on the same team will be the apex for 5-man rotation teams. In fact, during the entire time the Braves had all three together, Maddux won 20 games only ONCE, Smoltz won 20 games only ONCE, and Glavine won 20 games five times….for a total of 7 20 win seasons amongst them all, and only in 1993 did Atlanta have two of them win 20 in the same season….Glavine and Maddux.

I find the signing very curious. Some teams seem to be “unbalanced” and by going to Kendrick or whomever as #5 instead of Blanton (if they succeed in offloading him) they may be giving up 5 or more wins relative to what Blanton might have given them. They have an unknown in RF. Raul disappears after 2011 (if they don’t offload him). Rollins disappears after 2011. Polanco’s last year is 2012 and Utley’s last year is 2012 (with a very expensive option for 2013). Lots of offensive holes to fill, especially given that Howard’s bat is looking more one-dimensional all the time.

The Giants have Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez (who could become a pure lights-out kind of pitcher with improved control), Baumgarner (only 21/22) and a fifth starter named Zito, who gives workmanlike 190-210 innings these days. In a short playoff, not sure that adding a 4th “gun” helps so much as having the best 3 guns.
I think Philly was a lock to win the division in 2011, so the addition of Lee had to be with an eye to years past that and also to the post-season. Very curious. I guess they should contact the Yankees and see if they may want Blanton ;>>)

By: iamthedoublestandard

iamthedoublestandard — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:57:57 +0000

Ok, I see you halfway came to your senses as I was using my chubby fingers typing this on my phone. Get a good night sleep and get back to me. Sane.

By: iamthedoublestandard

iamthedoublestandard — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:55:19 +0000

Craig, I usually love what you write but the way you so easily dismiss Maddux as compared to Halladay is pure and incorrect hindsight if I’m being honest. Just in a couple of key strokes you’re having memory loss? Maddux was unhittable at his best just like Halladay. I’m not saying one was better than the other and I’m certainly aware of the Halladay track record but you can’t bet your life that Halladay is definitively better than Maddux. The guy was a Picasso but is now remembered as a finger painter? Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I’m not ready to say a hall of a famer, with over 350 wins, who pitched through the steroid era is inferior to a current player who is fantastic but isn’t even 100 games over .500. To think of it, who would I rather have in a big spot, Halladay or Pettitte? I’ll take Pettitte. Laugh all you want but go look at the numbers. Overall.

By: Mark Armour

Mark Armour — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:48:49 +0000

I understand, and you are not the only one saying it. As for me, I doubt we will ever see anything like what the Braves had for, what, 8 years?

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:44:25 +0000

Just kind of a gut reaction. I doubt they’ll be as good in practice in 2011 as the 97 or 98 Braves. This is kind of an on-paper off the top of my head response. And very little sleep. I may walk it back. I may change the way I look at it. Just felt like spewing it at the moment.

By: Mark Armour

Mark Armour — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:41:40 +0000

I am very surprised at your ranking this rotation higher than the Braves (who Bill James has written was the best rotation of all-time). Maddux is clearly the best of the group, and I would put Glavine and Smoltz on par with Halladay. Lee has only had three years that are in this league, and is now 32. Oswalt is a notch below, and Hamels is clearly behind all of them.

Glavine had a rough first few years and a long tail to his career. But from 1991-2002, he was 209-102 with a 3.15 ERA, averaging 225 a year despite the strike. He was a beast.

By: Bob Timmermann

Bob Timmermann — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:38:39 +0000

Sutton didn’t come up with the Dodgers until 1966. That was the year when Koufax, Drysdale, Osteen, and Sutton made nearly every start. Joe Moeller started 8 games to fill in when there doubleheaders.

The 1965 Dodgers pitching staff was pretty much just Koufax and Drysdale for the first half. The Dodgers finished that season with a stretch of pitching that wouldn’t be seen again until the Giants in 2009.

By: baseballtowntom

baseballtowntom — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:32:12 +0000

Lets see the best rotation ever? A mediocre Giants lineup beat all 4 of them a total of 5 times last postseason. So are the four overrated or are the Giants starters underrated?