Comments on: Morosi: Zack Greinke has requested a trade

By: handsfour

handsfour — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 21:24:50 +0000

People were JOKING about Pujols, and probably Cano. Sheesh.

By: handsfour

handsfour — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:45:06 +0000

Thanks mastacliff, you sure set us straight.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:08:06 +0000

It’s being reported that Greinke has been traded to the Brewers this morning. Imagine Greinke’s surprise when he heard the news. Going from one losing team to another losing team. With the Brewers only having control of Prince Fielder for the 2011 season before he becomes a free agent they are likely to be even a worse team come 2012. Someone explain to me how this trade makes either team better long term? The Royals gave up there prized pitcher for what doesn’t appear to be any game changers. And the Brewers received arguably a “very good” pitcher by some accounts for probably 2 years (Greinke will be a free agent in 2013) but they lose a major piece of their offense in 2012 when Fielder becomes a FA. How does being traded to Milwaukee satisfy Greinke’s desire to play for a winner? Even if you assume the very best case for Greinke’s new team. The Brewers are at most likely to be a .500 or slightly over .500 winning club in 2011 that would mean a 5 to 10 game turn around over their 2010 season. That still won’t be enough to overtake St. Louis or the Reds in that division. Then in 2012 they lose Fielder and revert back to a sub .500 team. I just don’t see this trade as being a game changer for either team or for Greinke for that matter.

By: JBerardi

JBerardi — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 04:42:53 +0000

Even if that was true, what exactly is it supposed to prove? I don’t understand why one’s jealousy of the Yankees has anything to do with one’s opinion on Zach Greinke.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 02:28:43 +0000

Since you asked. I believe that many fans of teams that are habitual losers are jealous of more successful teams and their fans. And there is no more successful team in Major League Baseball then the Yankees. And that’s not an opinion that’s a fact.

By: rick1922

rick1922 — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 02:01:21 +0000

I agree 100%.

By: JBerardi

JBerardi — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:37:28 +0000

“because Howard, Polanco, Victorino, Ruiz, Rollins,and Ibanez are all going on vacation for 2011 or will all forget how to hit all at the same time.”

Clearly, that’s ridiculous. They’re not all going to forget to hit at the same time; hell, some of them already forgot how to hit!

Seriously though, let’s break it down:

Declining: Howard,

Declined: Rollins, Ibanez, Polanco

Not that great in the first place: Ruiz

Going strong: Victorino

It’s not a scary offense at all.

By: JBerardi

JBerardi — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:29:28 +0000

By the way, for anyone trying to make a statistical argument that Greinke isn’t that good… look at FIP or xFIP, WAR, tERA, whatever. Any sufficiently advanced statistic will tell you that he was easily one of the ten best starters in the AL last year. Any statistic that does not tell you this is, therefore, not sufficiently advanced.

By: JBerardi

JBerardi — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:17:34 +0000

"Believe what you want." Well, at least you're following your own advice. There's about as much real evidence that players fail because of the "NY pressure cooker" as there is for existence of the tooth fairy. But like you say, believe what you want. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that any rational person cares what you simply believe to be true.

By: jfk69

jfk69 — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:14:22 +0000

Any player in any farm system is better than signing Franceour for 2.5 million. Of course i hear the clubhouse attendent in KC runs a good book and doesn’t charge 50k for personal services..

By: ultimatecardinalwarrior

ultimatecardinalwarrior — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:11:19 +0000

Guys: kidding.

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 00:31:39 +0000

And what have the Yankees done for their fans lately? The answer is “Nothing but heartaches!”

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:57:26 +0000

Believe what you want. Since you are obviously a fan of perennial losers and located outside of New York, I bow to your intimate knowledge of NY Yankee baseball, NY Media and Yankee fans expectations.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:21:27 +0000

WOW, you take about delusional. So you consider 2010 one of Greinke’s 3 very good seasons. I guess when you only have 6 season to choose from a pitcher with 10-14 Win/Loss record, a 4.17 ERA, a 1.25 WHIP and a 2.60 BAA record sounds good. I know people/fans discount wins and loses these days but his ERA, WHIP and BAA don’t exactly bring tears of joy. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. Even if you discount CC’s performance with the Yankees check out his stats with Cleveland and Milwaukee not exactly powerhouse. Yet his performance was outstanding. Greinke’s not even a close 2nd to CC.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 22:57:38 +0000

seattlej – I assume you are referring to the period 1982 through 1993 the 11 year span. Rather then make a blanket statement let’s look at the Yankee record those years. The Yankees finished under .500 in 4 of those years. I would agree with your assessment those 4 years (1982, 1990, 1991 & 1992) the Yankees were pathetic. In 4 years the Yankees won 85 to 89 games (1984, 1987, 1988 & 1993) that’s hardly pathetic. In the other 3 years (1983, 1985 & 1986) the Yankees won 90 or more games I would say that’s pretty darn good. While the Yankees missed the post season their performance was hardly pathetic during that entire span of years.
Now contrast that with Kansas City’s record from 1986 to 2010 Twenty Five years. They have had a winning record in exactly 6 of those years and only one winning season since 1994. Do you honestly believe there is even the remotest comparison with the Yankees record in the 1980′s or even the Tampa Bay Rays who only came into the league in 1998 as an expansion team and have already been to the post season 2 times (one of those times to the World Series).

By: baseballisboring

baseballisboring — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:07:11 +0000

Haha…touche. Now I understand the “Go.” at the end. Sounds exactly like something that someone would actually post, though…

By: seattlej

seattlej — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:27:17 +0000

dominatetheworld: Way to re-write history to serve your purposes. Are you also a holocaust denier and believe that the South was really fighting for freedom? Greinke has had one great season, two very good seasons and a few average seasons. He missed one season that you could certainly categorize as “bad.” The average and bad seasons occurred while he was struggling with an issue that he apparently has under control now. Those three very good and great seasons have been the last three. I would guess he’s probably never going to put up a 9 WAR season again since few pitchers even have one of those (though I could certainly be wrong on that), but I think the odds are pretty good that he’ll string together a few very good years in the 5 – 7 WAR range.

In short, Greinke would probably be the best starter on the Yankees. Sure, you can argue that CC is better, and they’re definitely very, very close, but over the last three seasons Greinke’s been more valuable than CC and he’s three years younger. If I was picking one of them for next season, or the next 5 seasons, my money would be on Greinke.

By: seattlej

seattlej — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:55:10 +0000

Hmmm. Until about three years ago wasn’t everyone saying that the Rays were the AL version of the Pirates. Teams change. They go through ups and downs. In the 80s the Yankees were pretty damn pathetic. Just a real disgusting franchise that couldn’t do anything right. Now they’re one of the better run franchises in baseball. The Royals will obviously never be the Yankees, but five years from now could they have a run like the Rays are having? You bet.

By: seattlej

seattlej — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:10:52 +0000

uyf1950 – you speak of delusional Greinke and Ms fans, but continue to spout grand delusions of your own. The NY “pressure cooker” is simply a myth. It’s a delusion cooked up by NY fans to explain away any players failure to live up to lofty NY expectations (even when they’re not warranted). You cite Randy Johnson as an example. By the time RJ reached NY he was finished. It was a bad trade by Cashman and the expectations were way out of sync with reality (he was a 42 year old pitcher with a recent history of injuries for god’s sake). The NY fans seem to expect miracles by any player that puts on the vaunted pinstripes and when those miracles don’t occur the fans explain it away by applying your “NY pressure cooker” myth. The same thing goes for Vazquez – it couldn’t be that the guy has injury problems and that his velocity has dropped? It couldn’t be that Atlanta pulled a fast one on NY by shipping them damaged goods? No, the NY explanation is that he just can’t handle the pressure, when in reality it was probably just another bad trade by Cashman (who has a pretty dismal history of trading for veteran pitchers that are through… Johnson, Brown, Vazquez).

Please stop with the NY rhetoric.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:51:53 +0000

“Philly will be an epic failure this season due to their offense imploding and relying too heavily on Utley he can’t do it all himself”

Yeah, because Howard, Polanco, Victorino, Ruiz, Rollins,and Ibanez are all going on vacation for 2011 or will all forget how to hit all at the same time. The Pirates might be able to make it to the WS with the Phillies rotation, so yeah, you make sense.

By: dominatetheworld

dominatetheworld — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:06:47 +0000

Wow some of you are way ate up. Trade Cano for Greinke.. wtf, Trade Pujols for Greinke.. wtf x 2. Ya i’m sure the Yankees or Cardinals(the 2 teams with the most world series championships in mlb) would be dumb enough to trade their perennial MVP candidate for a starter that has had 1 “great” season and many average or bad years, has anxiety issues, is going to be 28 it’s not like he is a young prospect anymore and he would only be the 4th or maybe with a really good year 3rd best starter on either team. Only fair weather fans would say crap like that. Side note Philly will be an epic failure this season due to their offense imploding and relying too heavily on Utley he can’t do it all himself and the Yankees are going to have their hands full no matter what they do in the AL East because Boston is loaded up and the chances of them having 2 back to back injury plagued seasons are slim.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:50:59 +0000

In hindsight would the Yankees like to have him now? Sure. They my yet be able to sign Oswalt come 2012. I see where there is a mutual option after the end of the 2011 MLB season. We’ll have to see how content Oswalt is with a $16M option when Halladay is making $20M per and Lee is making $25M +/- per with the buyout factored in for 5 years. Considering all 3 pitchers are within one year of each other age wise.

By: wonkypenguin

wonkypenguin — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:38:36 +0000

Awesome.

By: wonkypenguin

wonkypenguin — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:34:07 +0000

I know he’s not a prospect – just thought he might be a nice piece to tempt them.

By: PanchoHerreraFanClub

PanchoHerreraFanClub — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:33:17 +0000

Boy, if Greinke didn’t have that no trade clause he would be a Pirate right now. He is what the Pirates have been saving their money for. It’s either that or a slight used Yugo.

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:06:49 +0000

As a Jays fan, I agree with you. Both Garza and Carmona would help the Yankees and would come cheaper than Greinke.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:58:35 +0000

I bet Cash is now kicking himself for not smelling out the Oswalt move and beating the Phills out on the trade they made. They did get a Great frigging deal. I mean they got paid to take Oswalt……
I’m smelling a multi team deal in the making. The Yanks need pitching. They have players to trade that don’t match the needs of known trading teams. I don’t think the Royals are all that interested in what the Yanks can get rid of honestly. That, with the fact we’re hearing nothing tells me a multi team deal is being conjured up as i type this. Blanton and some $ could be a nice incentive to KC. He is a solid pitcher who eats innings, and the Phills could use a decent OF. Not saying that’s going to happen, but I was just using that as example, KC will need someone to fill at least one of Greinkes’ shoes on the mound, No?

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:46:29 +0000

Let’s see if this post will get a rise out of the always objective “bigharold”. As you so eloquently stated in an earlier post “Fortunately your opinion (referring to me) doesn’t count.” I thought I would share this opinion as well.
From this Yankee fans standpoint I would much prefer the Yankees try and work a trade with either the Rays for Matt Garza or the Indians Fausto Carmona. Neither player would cost the Yankees nearly what the Royals are trying to get for Greinke and Garza or Carmona would be under the acquiring teams control for the next 3 or 4 years either via arbitration or club options and both would be more then reasonable from a payroll standpoint. Also, Garza is used to the rigors of the AL East and Carmon is used to the pressure of playoff baseball. Both players also satisfy the Yankees need for a #2 once Pettitte retires (probably in 2012). Then depending what pitcher(s) the Yankees target in 2013 one or the other could potentially be a #3. Dare I say that’s just my opinion.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:43:03 +0000

Actually the Phillies have a crazy talented Farm still. They have a few very valuable guys in AA and AAA still, one being on first base, and looks to be a very powerful 1st baseman or DH. But where the Phillies are strongest is their single A. One scout was quoted “The phillies have the most talented A club in baseball, hands down. They have the ability to make a Braves like run for a good decade.” I don’t think the have the payroll flexibility to bring on Greinkes’ salary though. Then again I figured Lees’ was out of the question as well.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:48:41 +0000

Ignoring your obvious bias, what makes you think they haven’t done their “due diligence” and that’s why there have been no offers from the Yankees for Greinke. Several pitchers with fewer issues then Greinke has/had have been unable to cope with the scrutiny/pressure and expectations of the NY media and fans. Does Randy Johnson ring a bell for you and others.