Comments on: The Cubs snag backup catcher Max Ramirez from the Red Sox and it probably doesn’t matter http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/ Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball. Tue, 21 May 2013 21:20:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: bobbcronin http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103572 Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:17:03 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103572 Do you use OPS in fantasy baseball? The problem is that most people measure players the same way a fantasy GM would. Those statistics are Runs, Hits, Home Runs, RBI’s, Stolen Bases, and Average. Sometimes, it would include Walks, Strikeouts and Fielding Percentage. Now, understanding that, Posey wasn’t even called up until a month into the season and his stats were consistent throughout the season. I believe his stats would clearly outplay Soto. Also, Soto started so bad that almost every fantasy GM dropped him. Posey was kept on teams even without playing. That to me clearly indicates that Posey was a better player.

]]> By: ja4ed http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103509 Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:07:07 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103509 OBP has no problems. It does exactly what it’s supposed to do. It measures how often a player does not make outs. wOBA was not meant to improve OBP. They measure two different things. Finally, it’s good to know that Soto and his 16% walk rate – tied for second best in MLB, minimum 300 PAs – is a free swinger.

]]> By: spudchukar http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103438 Tue, 11 Jan 2011 00:24:45 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103438 Really! Now I would be the first to agree that RBI’s alone should not be the only calculus used to define a player’s worth. However, although I too like OBP as a stat, it has its problems also and wOBA really doesn’t improve the stat much due to the influence each has on the other. The knock against RBI’s of course is it doesn’t bring opportunities to the equation. True. But OBP fails to include in measurement of clutch hitting. So taken together we get a clearer picture. And what do strikeouts imply. Besides the obvious, not moving along runners, not working the count, hamstringing your manager in running situations, it also implies that you can be pitched to. Invariably hitters who strike out alot are mistake hitters. Free swingers that intelligent pitchers with control relish facing in game situations. So who is better? Good argument. What isn’t meaningful are statements like “by almost any measure Soto is better.”

]]> By: ja4ed http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103423 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:44:00 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103423 It’s pretty simple logic.
Soto’s teammates sucked so he didn’t get to play in the postseason.
Posey is a playoff God.
Posey was better than Soto.

]]> By: Ari Collins http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103421 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:33:52 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103421 Guys, are we really using RBIs and Ks? Really?

On a rate basis, Soto beat him handily in OPS (.890 to .862). And OPS understates the difference, since it treats SLG equal to OBP. In a more complete offensive measurement, like wOBA, we’re talking a difference of .385 to .368.

On an overall basis, though, it’s pretty even, thanks to fielding and playing time (though playing time was clearly not Soto’s fault). Soto beats Posey in bref’s WAR, but Fangraphs’ version of WAR is higher on Posey due to their metrics liking Posey’s D a lot. And I’m inclined to think both understate the difference in fielding, since catching defense is hard to quantify.

Either way, though, it’s close, guys. And that’s no insult to Posey, who’s probably the better overall player going forward. So settle down, boys.

]]> By: spudchukar http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103417 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:14:41 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103417 Fast work Bloodysock, you beat me to it, and I too was going to emphasize that glaring KO disparity. So, Hackerjay when you made your claims about who was the better player were you talking about Baseball?

]]> By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103415 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:12:07 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103415 Oh and I guess you were wrong on ALL measures, so never mind. See bloodysock below.

]]> By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103414 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:11:26 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103414 Aside from the playoffs and World Series…

]]> By: bloodysock http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103411 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:06:48 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103411 You’re kidding right?

Soto: .280 BA/ 17 HR/ 53RBI/ .393 OBP/ .497 SLG
105 games/322 AB’s/K’s 25.2%/ 62 BB’s

Posey: .305 BA/ 18 HR/ 67 RBI/ .357 OBP/ .505 SLG
108 games/406 AB’s/K’s 13.1%/ 30 BB’s

And how did Soto perform in the playoffs?

]]> By: spudchukar http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103409 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:58:43 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103409 Isn’t Max Ramirez a stand-up comedian with current gigs in the Pocono’s?

]]> By: hackerjay http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/the-cubs-snag-backup-catcher-max-ramirez-from-the-red-sox-and-it-probably-doesnt-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-103408 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:57:54 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=34573#comment-103408 Posey might have a higher ceiling, but Soto was the better player last year by almost any measure.

]]>