Comments on: Did the Yankees simply “mess up” Joba Chamberlain’s development?

By: mcgonnigle

mcgonnigle — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:35:33 +0000

You can’t discuss Joba intelligently without considering his injury and this: http://mcgonnigle.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/4241/#comment-19103

By: dilo16

dilo16 — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 16:58:19 +0000

God I’m tired of the overworked excuse that the Yanks destroyed Joba. That was two years ago. He has had two years with a lot of help to get himself straightened out. His attitude in the pen when he’s not pitching leaves much to be desired. His off the field activities stink. He frequents several of the night spots when in NY, and on the road. He hasn’t admitted to himself that he has to change his ways, nor has he taken any great steps to help himself on the field. Here’s a guy having all kinds of troubles on the mound, yet he holds the team record for shaking off the catcher. More often then not when he does, he gets bombed. He and AJ have worn out their excuses as to the need to stay focused in a game and off the field. Both would be better off elsewhere, like the Red Sox. Humble is not a word in ether’s vocabulary

By: evanpenn

evanpenn — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 07:29:43 +0000

If a pitcher can be “messed up” mentally so easily then he didn’t have the mentality to be a successful big-league pitcher in the 1st place. I say throw them all out there in front of 50,000 fans right away…then you’ll know what you have sooner rather than later. Can you imagine a Greg Maddux or John Smoltz having there psyches damaged because of too much pressure too early on? please…

By: spike036

spike036 — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:28:12 +0000

I would have offered Joba to SD for Mat Latos

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:31:38 +0000

Many times pitching prospects that appear to be starting rotation guys, end up proving they are only fit to be a reliever. The fact is, he’s 25 years old, he was “overused” by the Yanks while he was at the age where most starters are being used to pitch at least 100-150 innings anyway. I say, by his age in 2008 which was 23, it’s not crazy to have him in the starting rotation. Are they misusing and abusing Phil Hughes? I mean he’s been used more heavily in 2010 than Joba ever was and he’s 24. In 2006 I saw Hughes pitch in Trenton, he put up like 150 innings that season.
My take, Joba just didn’t cut it, and never would have as a starter. And the only fault of the Yankees was Hyping him up to the NY crowd as their next generation top pitching prospect. If any of you feel Joba was abused by overuse, you better start screaming about the overuse of Hughes as well.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:31:53 +0000

It’s not his fault the Yanks have done this to him. He’s pitched well for a pitcher his age, and in fact his first 43 starts mirror Hughes almost exactly. The “tryout” last spring training was rigged from the getgo. All he needed was a chance and we’re missing out because of it.

By: jfk69

jfk69 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:33:44 +0000

Enough of this craziness. Joba has had plenty of time and chances to prove otherwise. Simply put….Too much success to soon in a large media intense market in his first brief year end run . Hell his dad was being interviewed on a daily basis during that playoff run. The best thing they can do now is trade him or hope he put the time in this off season to find himself and become a more complete pitcher. Then when he is called on this year.No matter what the situation…he delivers.
It is his career to save and only he can do that. This country loves to play the blame game. But at the end of the day,the ball is always firmly in your hands.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:15:00 +0000

And it sure seems like Chamberlain was jerked around like crazy in going back and forth between starting and relieving as well as having strange workload rules and all of that

No, it seems crazy because of all the press it got at the time, meanwhile other teams do the exact same thing, but with the lack of press, it’s not a big deal.

Buccholz threw a no-hitter, but got shut down for the playoffs because he reached his innings limit. Mike Leake gets shut down because of his innings limit. Strasburg was quickly approaching his before he blew out his elbow. As for the reliever/starter thing, look at the early careers of Johan Santana and Roy Halladay to name two. Weren’t pitchers in the 60s/70s brought up via relievers as well?

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:18:14 +0000

Yankee fans there is a nice piece on the YESNetwork.com and the remaining alternatives for the Yankees on the market. Here is the link if anyone is interested in reading it.
http://www.myyesnetwork.com/12461/blog/2011/01/20/the_battle_for_no._5:_version_2011

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:05:15 +0000

To pisano, my friend. I agree about trading him as we have discussed in the past. I don’t know nor do I believe anyone else on this board knows if he has or had a “drinking” issue.
I do want to mention one thing that goes along with your point about him not being any more then a reliever with the Yankees. I’ve watched him over the last 2 season and even his first season with the Yankees. He doesn’t seem to me to have the mental makeup to be a starter. Simply put he is to emotional. A starting pitcher in my mind has to be able to control his emotions. He has to be able when he gets into trouble, be calm and work his way out of it. Joba hasn’t been and doesn’t seem able to do that. He let’s mistakes and a bad performance effect him to much. Maybe it’s because of expectations, maybe it’s because it’s NY, maybe it’s because it’s in his genes. But whatever the reason, in my opinion that will always limit him and limit how far he can progress as a pitcher. Just thinking out loud.

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:57:55 +0000

His fastball is straight. His breaking stuff is mediocre. His command is iffy. His confidence is shot. He can no longer get strike one, without damage. The Yankees know this. The other teams know this. Until he can show the ability to get big league hitters out again, his trade value is nil. Therefore: the Yanks are in a bind. Maybe they can package him with Mitre and another mid-level prospect and get a back of the rotation guy, but my guess is they have tried that and aren’t satisfied with the feedback. So they eventually punt, dump him and get whatever they can, or they keep him hope he can prove he has the makeup to adjust, reap his benefits or find a suitor who believe he is on the right track.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:15:52 +0000

John Candeleria, Mark Fidrych….

By: thinman61

thinman61 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:08:57 +0000

Agreed. Miller and Daniel Bard were teammates at UNC — where Miller was considered the better of the two. Will be interesting to see if Curt Young can turn Miller around.

By: ulrik3

ulrik3 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:03:11 +0000

I disagree with the idea of trading him now. As you said, he’s still young and under team control with some high upside potential. What are they going to get in return? In all likelihood they’ll get an overpaid replacement level starter to fill the #4 or #5 starter role. In 2009, as a 23 year old, he provided 31 starts and 157 IP at replacement level and earned the league minimum. Most teams would see this as a building block in the development of a young pitcher. Most Yankees fans saw this as a disappointment due to his exceptional debut in 2007 and the subsequent hype it caused.

Last year they moved him back to the rotation because they needed him there since they already had five starters in the rotation. Yes, he was inconsistent but he was not terrible (see note from billtpa below re:defensive failure). If he can be more consistent (which can and should come with maturity and experience) he’s still a valuable, controllable asset so why would you trade him now? You only do that if you can get equal value in return which seems unlikely due to his low perceived value.

Just plug him into the #4 or #5 role and let him repeat his 2009 performance or, perhaps, improve upon it.

By: Panda Claus

Panda Claus — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:58:44 +0000

The names David Clyde and Todd Van Poppel first come to mind. Several other A’s pitchers got burned up like dumpster fires too, thinking about this further.

By: ThatGuy

ThatGuy — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:40:58 +0000

I didn’t mean to say that he wasn’t a good prospect, he was. He did dominate his year in the minors, but the shear amount of press this guy got was unbelievable, even for a great prospect. Lincecum dominated the Minors more then him and you barely heard a peep about him until he was halfway to his Cy Young his 2nd season.

By: billtpa

billtpa — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:36:12 +0000

In 2008, he’s 22 years old, throws 100 innings in the majors and strikes out over 10 per 9, with a 2.60 ERA. That would get a hell of a lot of attention anywhere.

Yankee prospects are often (almost always) overhyped. Joba was one of the few who deserved every bit of hype he got.

By: ThatGuy

ThatGuy — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:33:36 +0000

This is the truth, the simple fact is because he was a Yankee’s prospect that came up, he got all this press. Any other team he doen’st get 80% of the media attention he did. The guy played one season of minor league baseball and was touted as the next big thing instantly, over exposure led to inflated expectations.

By: billtpa

billtpa — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:33:02 +0000

The part where it somehow applies to a guy with amazing stuff who completely dominated the minors (and, at times, the majors). He also put up excellent peripherals last year…his defense letting him down doesn’t count as “being exposed.”

By: Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward

Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:32:03 +0000

Leake was most certainly limited in pitch counts. I had him on my fantasy squad and then they cut his innings in August, which destroyed his fantasy value. That was without regard to any shoulder problems.

By: woodenulykteneau

woodenulykteneau — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:29:48 +0000

What part of overrated do you not understand?

By: billtpa

billtpa — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:25:42 +0000

If that were anything like what actually happened, this would be an excellent point.

By: pisano

pisano — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:15:56 +0000

Amen, that says it all.

By: pisano

pisano — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:14:35 +0000

uyf1950… As we’ve both said in the past he should be traded while he has some value. I don’t think he will be anymore than a middle of the road pitcher in any setting you put him in. The Yankee fans don’t like him and boo him everytime he comes in. An earlier poster suggested he has an problem with drinking, not uncommon with ball players, if he does it’s his problem to deal with. I firmly believe it’s time for him to move on and for the Yankees to get someone for him while they still can.

By: woodenulykteneau

woodenulykteneau — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:02:14 +0000

How is an overrated prospect finally being exposed “messing up his development?”

By: Alex K

Alex K — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:00:52 +0000

I take that back…Leake actually pitched more innings his last college season than he did last year.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:59:22 +0000

I agree with whoever says there should be an edit button.

Let’s try my first bullet point again (sorry for the poor typing.

….… If Joba is destined to only be a middle reliever with the Yankees, even with improvement. I would seem to be obvious that he should be traded and the sooner the better. If for no other reason posters have pointed out he is young, is still under team control for at least 3 years (including this year) and he offers a team upside potential with a change in scenery.

There are probably other typing errors in the post above, but hopefully everyone get my point.

By: Old Gator

Old Gator — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:57:14 +0000

No one but no one screwed up a young pitcher the way the Feesh destroyed Andrew Miller. The kid had lights out stuff but just wasn’t ready for prime time when Scrooge McLoria had him shoved out there in front of fifty thousand…well…seats, anyway, to get the living whatchamacallit kicked out of him by big league hitters as part of his withering austerity program (or “market correction,” to quote the Chihuahua). You could see it in his eyes – he had about as much confidence left by the time his nightmarish first season was over as Anthony Babington did when rackmaster Topcliffe explained what was going to happen to him tomorrow morning.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:55:15 +0000

I’ve been a proponent of the Yankees trading Joba. But let’s try and put the Yankee “fan” in me aside for a minute and try and look at Joba with more objective eyes.
… If Joba is destined to only be a middle reliever with the Yankees, even with improvement. I would seem to be to be obvious that he should be traded and the sooner the better. If for no other reason posters have pointed out he is you, is still under team control for at least 3 years (including this year) and he offers a team upside potential with a change in scenery.
…If the Yankees actually believe he can be more then a middle reliever at some point and can be more consistent then they should keep him at least for another year to see if that is indeed the case. In any case I do not see the Yankees using him in a starting roll.
My guess is 2011 is a telling year for Joba. If he shows improvement in the pen there is always the possibility that 2 or 3 years down the road Jobe will inherit the set up position and replace Soriano who will unless he opts out or totally bombs out will inherit Mo’s closer position. If Jobe continues his erratic pitching (some good outings, some poor outings and some very poor outings) this coming year he will be packaged as trade bait either at the trade deadline or in the off season for a starting position.
Again, I tried to put aside the “Yankee fan” in me and take an objective look at Joba and his future with the Yankees.

By: Alex K

Alex K — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:52:34 +0000

Mike Leake’s right shoulder doesn’t agree with you.