Comments on: Shane Victorino and Charlie Manuel aren’t seeing eye-to-eye

By: macjacmccoy

macjacmccoy — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:33:35 +0000

you also gotta take into account his move in the lineup. He went from batting inbetween Rollins and Utley to hitting between Ibanez and Ruiz or Ibanez n Werth at the bottom of a lineup. That can effect a guys stealing and hitting. Victorino never seemed to like moving down the lineup which was pretty obvious when his game picked up when he replaced Rollins in the lead off spot. Charly has to take some responsibility for Victorino’s drop off in production bc it was his choice to bat him so far down in the lineup.

By: macjacmccoy

macjacmccoy — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:23:13 +0000

I dunno Charle calls people out when he has to. Multiple times he has called out Rollins for not running a play out or something like that and benched him. The same with Werth.

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:51:01 +0000

So, the whole part where you bring up Hawaii, “Our President” and his critics doesn’t exist? I could have sworn that was in your comment…hmm.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:50:10 +0000

Honestly, it bugs me, but just a little.

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:55:01 +0000

I wasn’t talking “politics” either.

By: rolltidenj

rolltidenj — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:30:33 +0000

Craig, Manuel called out Jason Werth on several occasions last season.

By: xmatt0926x

xmatt0926x — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:39:08 +0000

Your on to something… The evil Iowan is at it again. Just pure evil……

By: xmatt0926x

xmatt0926x — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:37:56 +0000

I love Victorino’s game in center but who says he was ever such a great offensive player to begin with where he couldnt have a down year or two. At best he’s a .280 or so singles hitter with a little pop in CBP. Its good enough for me but it’s not like he was some offensive monster who had a Prince Fielder kind of dropoff last year. Just like Craig said, the national guys don’t see Shane on a daily basis and see his miscues on the basepaths and his lapses of judgement that seem to occur on a somewhat frequent basis. Werth was the same way. I just think that kind of stuff easily leads to the impression of a lack of focus. In Shane’s defense, his speed in center and his great arm likely save more runs that his loose play costs them.

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:48:17 +0000

Um…who said anything about politics here? As far as I can tell, you are the first to go that route.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:24:03 +0000

Of course they don’t see eye to eye. Victorino is much taller.

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:37:42 +0000

Shane Victorino BABIP the past four years: .317, .302, .314, .315
BABIP for 2010: .273

Odds are, his down year was just a case of being unlucky. Extra base hits, walks, K’s were all roughly the same. Seems like Charlie is calling him out for bad luck.

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:14:27 +0000

It is human nature I guess, the need to find causation for every problem. But identifying Victorino’s production downturn as complacency lacks imagination. The rationale is tiresome. Every player fluctuates, to some degree. Consistency is a wonderful quality, but it is unreasonable to expect levels of excellence to be maintained, without some variation. Whatever the reasons or lack thereof, let us please not go down the “Hawaiian”, avenue. Our President has had his ups and downs, too, and with all of his critics, both justified and not, “Island Mentality”, hasn’t surfaced, so leave that alone.

By: seanmk

seanmk — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:48:12 +0000

this stems from as a switch hitter he was noticable better hitter from the right side compared to the left. small sample but in 412 AB from the left he hit .233/.305/.376 and in 175 from the right he his .320/.380/.554. Rollins actually had a simliar split hitting .297 from the right and .218 from the left. as righties they crushed left handed pitching, just hitting as left handers they were bad. would agree with shane it was mechanics

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:15:27 +0000

Ryno was complacent enough to watch that pitch. To paraphrase Mufasa, the Phightins need to shake it off and claim their rightful place in the circle of life. (How’s that, Craig?)

While I agree that Shane “The Levitating Guy From the 50th State” Victorino—and a few others, mind you—did exhibit signs of complacency, they did finish with the best record in the majors, after a historic slump. Hell, they were shut out for what, a month straight? (Might be a slight exaggeration.) But I also have a slight problem with Cholly calling him out in the press—if you can call the Daily News “press” per se. Keep it in the clubhouse, Chuck. Leave it on the field, Shane the Hawaiian.

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:07:52 +0000

Maybe it’s me but it seems like a lot to get worked up about for a guy who was just slightly less productive offensively than he was in past years. He was right around his career marks, and what, .015 wOBA lower than he was last year? His walk rate was good, his K rate about the same, the power went up. He stole 34 bases and was extremely efficient when doing so.

I’m on the outside looking in, but it doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. Heck, going by WAR he was better in 2010 then he was in 09.

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 15:53:56 +0000

Just another passive aggressive way of Craig trying to rile up the Phightins Phanbase.

By: schmedley69

schmedley69 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:20:20 +0000

I remember they had a similar spat in Spring Training a few years ago. This is nothing new. Shane is a space cadet. Sometimes he’s just not there mentally. Swinging at the first pitch when a pitcher is struggling with control; getting thrown out stealing in crucial situations, etc. He can be a real bonehead sometimes.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:08:33 +0000

He has called out guys before. He called out Jimmy Rollins and benched his butt for “lack of hustle” One of those shoulda been outs but an error gave a chance for Jimmy to get on base, but since he didn’t try hustling to first like he should always do, he was out anyway. He was benched and came back better than ever. Shane Victorino, who happens to be Hawaiian had an exact situation last season, and wasn’t benched. But yeah, I agree with Charlie on this because complacency, even a small amount could lead to guys pulling off early on the way to first. Shane did come back and say it would never happen again. I also think sometimes Shane does come up to bat trying to hit it out of the park, making him SO more often than he should. Shane could be one of the best contact guys in the NL if he did focus on being a contact guy. Face it Shane, you aren’t big bopper mat’l, Make contact, get on base, and let your legs do the magic. When he’s on base it shakes up most pitchers, he’s really that fast, and he reads the pitcher well. Charlie has become complacent in ways too. It’s the NL Charlie, let’s steal some bases.

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:56:41 +0000

Uncle Cholly really doesn’t call out his players in the media, so you’re right, it’s odd. I wonder if he’s just trying to light a fire under Victorino…I do get the vibe that Shane’s getting a little inflated. But Charlie’s a superb player’s manager, so I trust how he’s going to handle the problem.

By: Joe

Joe — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:55:21 +0000

“What’s going on?” indeed. 500+ words and not one of them is “Hawaii(an).”