Comments on: The Greatest Living Ballplayer: Continued

By: sparty99

sparty99 — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 04:20:53 +0000

This is a nitpick, but Al Kaline was twice indicated as the greatest living Tiger since the day Cobb died in 1961. It doesn’t matter now, but the day Cobb died, that title probably transferred to Charlie Gehringer. At some point near the end of his career Kaline may well have surpassed Gehringer and he certainly holds the title today (although depending on the longevity required and continued career arc Miguel Cabrera may creep up in the not-too-distant future), but by no means did he grab the title in his 6th season in the majors.

By: spindervish

spindervish — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:44:10 +0000

Yeah, I’ll certainly agree with you that the original poster’s comment was pretty stupid.

By: fdnymedic03

fdnymedic03 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:30:25 +0000

The Greatest Living Ball Player,Hands down is the great Willie (the say hey kid) May’s…He’s the only one that should be mention!

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:05:42 +0000

I’m not a stat geek, nor do I aspire to be one. But I am definitely geekier than I used to be. Previously, I would have said “Yeah, A-Rod is in the discussion since he hits all those HRs.” But I have learned to give SOME of the other stats their due, and one stat that particularly appeals to me is OPS and OPS+. A-Rod career….958 OPS and 145 OPS+. Great, great numbers. Pujols career…1.050 OPS and 172 OPS+. These aren’t great…these are historically great. Pujols, if he continues his current production, will end up the greatest of all time. If he dips just a little bit, he will still be in the top 5. A-Rod, unless he turns it around from his last 3 years, which have been great, but not historically great, will not be in the discussion of greatest ever.

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 01:42:16 +0000

A-Rod? Sure he is. What disclaimer? Beyond being currently alive no other limits were set. His stats are pretty good.

By: Reflex

Reflex — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:41:02 +0000

I’m not going to split hairs. He was suspended for using a drug that was against the drug policy. The drug in question is typically used by roiders. He did not get a medical exemption for that drug. Chances are very high it was being used as part of a steroid program.

Its enough for me. It may or may not be enough for you. Either way though, my point still stands: The original poster is willing to tar Thome’s career, a career that has *never* had any evidence of PED use, and in the same post elevate Ramirez above him, despite the fact that there is plenty of evidence that he was not clean.

He can make a case that Manny was a better player. He can make a case that he thinks Thome was a juicer. There is not, however, a valid case to be made that Manny was a better player *because* Thome was a juicer. Manny was not clean, that nullifies any such argument immediatly.

By: jwbiii

jwbiii — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:16:29 +0000

“Ramirez becomes the highest profile player to be suspended during active play. League suspends Ramirez for hGC (human chorionic gonadotropin), a female fertility drug. He claimed that his positive test is a result of medication received from a doctor for a personal medical issue. Ramirez is found to have elevated testosterone levels when tested during Spring Training. The elevated levels of testosterone leads to an investigation by the league which then discovers that Ramirez has been using hGC, a substance known to be used by serial steroid users to kick-start the body’s natural testosterone products after a steroid cycle. The suspension is, therefore, a “non-analytical positive”; a suspension based upon evidence, not a failed drug test. While hGC is a banned substance due to its coupled use with anibolic steroids, players can request a therapeutic use exemption (TUE) for hGC, something Ramirez did not do.”
Maury Brown,
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=996&Itemid=85

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:42:04 +0000

A-Rod’s not in the discussion? Again, setting the PED disclaimer aside.

By: umrguy42

umrguy42 — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:23:07 +0000

Craig, all these things are true, but my Cardinals-fan heart wants to say that if Mays drops dead tomorrow, Stan the Man better be no worse than second on the updated list :p

Also, I think in light of your mea culpa on Ripken, Musial ought to be the easiest choice out there (yes, even over Albert) :p

By: spindervish

spindervish — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:17:30 +0000

It is not a fact that Manny Ramirez used steroids. It is a fact that he was suspended for a drug violation, and the drug in question is widely believed (or possibly confirmed, I’m not sure) to have been human chorionic gonadotropin, which is in fact not an anabolic steroid. Yes, it’s a common drug used for post-cycle therapy, which certainly seems to imply that Manny may have taken steroids at some point, but that’s just speculation, not fact.

In the future you may want to educate yourself a little bit before you go calling people out and throwing around your “facts.”

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:07:51 +0000

No argument from me. Bench and Carter (before they got old) were the two best defensive catchers I’ve ever seen, and Bench was many times better offensively.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:06:03 +0000

No, it’s called having other things to do and being distracted. The only dead player I mentioned that was a “duh” was Puckett, that was just my brain going sdiusddfnbdofkdfhba. I had no idea Stargell and Matthews were doing the dirt dance, and had been for so long.

By: shawnuel

shawnuel — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:54:47 +0000

I would choose Bench over Rose for the Reds and one reason has been stated quite well already. Better OVERALL offensive production at a far more demanding position.

Now, granted that Rose made himself into an adequate OF and 3B after Morgan moved him off 2B, but Bench is, arguably, the best defensive C in baseball history and a top 3 best offensive C of all time. To me, who was a big fan of the Big Red Machine (from age 5-18) from ’68-’81 until and a bit after the Mariners came to my region, Bench WAS the Cincinnati Reds. There were a lot of players to like on those teams, bit Bench distinguished himself with his on-field play and off-field demeanor. In the era when players were starting to belly-ache about salary, Bench was always as classy as could be in those negotiations.

By: Lukehart80

Lukehart80 — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:38:12 +0000

As an Indians’ fan, I would go with Thome too. Lofton is very overlooked though, I’d put him ahead of Manny and Belle. It’s interesting that Omar hasn’t been mentioned (not much anyway), I expected a lot of his backers to push him for the Tribe. I’m glad that hasn’t happened.

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:06:57 +0000

Musial does get slighted these days but for all his greatness, including speed which usually goes unmentioned, (check out his triples) he is still a shade or two below Mays. What Mays could do that no other player has replicated is his ability to completely dominate a game. He wasn’t just a five-tool player. He was a five-tool player who exercised his gifts in a daring and overwhelming manner.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:48:37 +0000

Not Gaylord Perry?
And here’s a relatively obscure one: Andre Thornton. Guy was a hitting machine.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:46:21 +0000

Because Willie Mays is. QED

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:45:31 +0000

No, Berra is not the best ever to play the game, likely not in the top ten or fifteen. But he’s in the discussion for greatest catcher of all time with (in no particular order) Bench, Piazza, Cochrane, Carter and Dickey. (Yeah, I’m sure I left someone out). You could argue he’s #2 to Bench.

By: BC

BC — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:41:59 +0000

My suggesting dead people = Not reading obituaries + Missing a bunch of deaths in the late 90s and early 00s because I had a life then + Being at work and having limited time to surf the web to check on whether someone was doing the Dirt Dance + Collective effect of years of Ketel One.

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:24:30 +0000

Yeah, once again, we need to define the term “Great” otherwise Bonds is definitely on the table.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:14:12 +0000

I believe that if you are going to name the Greatest Living Ballplayer, without using any type of disclaimers, then Barry Bonds would have to be the winner. I know his #’s are tainted by the whole steroids thing, but without that disclaimer, his #s are better than everyone except Babe Ruth. If Pujols keeps it up for another 5 or 6 years, he will surpass Bonds. But right now, I would have to say that the list is Bonds then Mays with Pujols fast on their tails.

By: nelsonsaint

nelsonsaint — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:12:48 +0000

have you ever seen todd helton and rory b bellows in the same room? maybe he’s not so boring after all…

By: luckywi

luckywi — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:37:59 +0000

Good column. I missed the original, but I have to wonder about people’s reading comprehension, when they think dead people are the Greatest Living Ballplayer. Good stuff.

By: Reflex

Reflex — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:32:00 +0000

The thing is that I don’t think this is a diss at all on Yogi. He’s one of the all time best. His numbers were absolutely ridiculous for a corner outfielder, much less a catcher. Easily top ten in my book. Plus a great guy to boot.

I think it just says a lot about how great Mays and Ruth were though, that someone with as amazing stats as Yogi still isn’t in the same class as those two.

By: jwbiii

jwbiii — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:18:58 +0000

And Barry Bonds has a clear cut advantage over Mays in WAR, was an excellent base runner until his knees went, and if you you believe TZ, had more defensive value even though he played left field.

“Many dead people — Eddie Matthews, Willie Stargell, Kirby Puckett, etc. — were suggested for the title of Greatest Living Ballplayer” because some posters aren’t bright enough to use baseball reference. Their screen names have been noted and the opinions expressed in their their future posts will be weighted accordingly.

By: aburns77

aburns77 — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:54:33 +0000

I am inclined to agree with you on Yogi being the greatest living Yankee, but greatest living ballplayer period is a little much. As much as I love and respect Jeter and Mo, Yogi with his ten rings and multiple MVPs is easily one of the top two catchers of all time, becoming one of the first to be able to be a force at the plate as well as behind it. That said I think its hard to say he’s the greatest living player because I can’t even say definitively he’s the greatest living catcher (Johnny Bench) right now. Mays excelled in all facets of the game despite playing in the cavernous candlestick park which if he played anywhere else would have easily hit over 700 home runs. Speaking of Bench, what about Johnny getting some love for greatest Red? I realize he’s not the hit king like Rose, but Bench arguably had a much higher offensive peak at a much more demanding defensive position than Rose.

By: irreverendsara

irreverendsara — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:50:16 +0000

In spite of being a former member of the Joe Charboneau Fan Club, I’m gonna have to go with Jim Thome as the greatest living ballplayer for the Indians. That’s the hat he’ll be wearing when he makes the Hall of Fame. Yeah, I said “when he makes the Hall of Fame.”

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:48:28 +0000

Did we ever stop to define ‘great’? That’s where the contention lies, really. Also, that’s where the fun lies. Everyone of us probably judges ‘great’ by different criteria. Sometimes by only slight differences in stats, sometimes by public opinion, sometimes by off field behavior. One of the most fun discussions ever on this site; I read every one of the posts and got absolutely nothing done yesterday. By my criteria, this was a ‘great’ subject. As for GLB? My opinion; Willie “Human Highlight Reel” Mays because he had it all.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:11:38 +0000

Reflex, this is one time that I agree with you. My heart and Yankee bias say go with Yogi but as I posted yesterday in all fairness the title belong to the “say hay kid” Willie Mays. I saw him play as a youngster and like I said excluding the last 3 or 4 years of his career there was none better.

By: Reflex

Reflex — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:48:23 +0000

Not dismay. Just amusement really. Yogi was awesome. Love the guy. One of the ten best to play the game ever. But Mays is in the conversation for the greatest player to ever play. Its pretty much Ruth or Mays no matter how you cut it(I’ve read convincing arguments either way, I personally lean Ruth if only because he could also pitch at a high level).

Yogi is not in the conversation for the greatest to play the game. Nobody believes he was a better ballplayer than Mays, nobody considers him to even be the greatest Yankee ever(Ruth). And if he’s not in that conversation, then clearly he cannot be the greatest living ballplayer so long as Mays is alive.