Comments on: Andy Martino asks: Was Luis Castillo hate a racial thing?

By: fatelvis77

fatelvis77 — Sun, 20 Mar 2011 00:46:57 +0000

If Luis Pujols played for the Metsies he’d be adored as a demigod. Unless, of course, for his $30M he hit .272 with 17 hrs and 76 rbis. In that case he’d be booed far more viciously than Castillo ever was. Castillo stunk. So did Kaz Matsui, Jeff Francoeur and Mike Cameron. Have I missed any races?

By: rossesmithii

rossesmithii — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 16:30:10 +0000

It’s time to become a giants fan again!

By: mikelifts

mikelifts — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:20:48 +0000

I am not really sure what race Andy Martino is so if I think he is a hack writer and a tool does that qualify as being racist?

By: stevenewatson

stevenewatson — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:24:00 +0000

Obvious point, but I guess it needs to be made. Racism = prejudice + power. White people (sometimes including Jews, sometimes not, as could be said of other ethnicities who are “white”) have generally speaking always had the most power in this particular country and in recent world history, internationally as well.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 02:12:40 +0000

Fans and teams usually love players who Excel, or at least earn their pay. When players underperform they get trashed.
I think asking the question “Is this racism” in a public forum is a weak attempt at getting attention. Not trashing the guy, I just think it’s lame.

By: macjacmccoy

macjacmccoy — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 00:09:12 +0000

I just find it funny when racism is brought up its only about what white people are doing wrong. Like you said when it comes to people of color getting labeled as lazy and how that never happens to white players. You dont ever hear complaints about white people being considered slow or cant jump or how in football if your white your going to be a tight end or fullback instead of a wr or rb. There are just as many stereotypes about white people and racism towards white people then there are of people of color. And white players do get put in boxes and negatively labeled bc of the color of there skin just like everyone else. Especially when it comes to being labeled a racist. I never here a latino or African American labeled as a racist just white people. I personally think the people that bring up racism are ones people should be looking at as the racists bc a nnormal persons 1st thoughts when something happens isnt does race have something to do with this. Only people that think in racial terms jump to that conclusion. I dunno Im just tired of hearing racism brought up every time something happens to a person of color. Like racism is onyl something that happens in white communities. And even though its a totally different subject the same thing with slavery. Every race has been a slave to another at 1 time its not just something that happened to African Americans. The French and British were slaves to the Romans for hundreds of years. Same goes for the eyptians and arabs. Not to mention Jewish people who have a longer history of being inslaved then any other ethnic group.

By: mrznyc

mrznyc — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:15:46 +0000

I seem to recall Minaya initially going after Delgado with a racial pitch and Delgado being totally offended and signing with Florida. Castillo hasn’t been all that good but this is really about a wrong headed decision by Minaya to make the team about Spanish speaking ball players instead of the best ball players available. Rightly or wrongly, Castillo is now taking the heat intended for Minaya.

By: luckywi

luckywi — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:13:14 +0000

Hey, another battle worn player sent to the Met’s from the Twins. Unfortunately, the Twins are sticking it to the wrong NY team….

By: goforthanddie

goforthanddie — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:52:50 +0000

Of course, any time something bad happens to a non-white person, it’s racial.
And that is why racism will never die-a guy isn’t worth his position, gets paid 6mil to walk away, and someone has to bring up the race card.

By: uuddlrlrbastart

uuddlrlrbastart — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:46:15 +0000

I don’t think Met fans really hate Castillo at all. Yes, some of the boos were directed specifically at him, especially in the wake of the dropped ball. But for the most part, every time a Met fan complained about him or booed him, they were booing Minaya and they were booing the contract. The current options at second probably aren’t significantly better, but they’re all younger, they all have much more potential (well, not Luis Hernandez, he should follow Castillo out the door), and whoever wins it is probably at least going to be on the team in 2012.

Now if we can just get rid of Perez…

By: stuckonwords

stuckonwords — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:46:19 +0000

You’re right, Craig. But in saying this, aren’t you de-legitimizing uyf1950′s point? He’s suggesting that it’s just as fair to say that Castillo may have gotten his contract from Minaya at least partly do to racial favoritism, as well. While what you’re saying undoubtedly holds some truth, uyf1950′s point deserves just as much presence in the conversation.

By: mrhojorisin

mrhojorisin — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:36:42 +0000

I think you’re way off base. Most Mets fans I know are Reyes fans, and he’s my favorite Met by far. I fear for the day when he might leave… which could be as early as next winter.

By: jamie54

jamie54 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:36:28 +0000

Got old, got hurt, got paid over $50 million in his career. Don’t care.

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:34:28 +0000

jwbiii; Nice. An above par anecdote, a brilliant stat line and a shot at Frenchy all on one post. The trifecta. I am golf clapping.

By: aronmantoo

aronmantoo — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:02:57 +0000

Give me a break, Racial thing? I think it was more of a “stick a fork in him he’s done thing”

By: jwbiii

jwbiii — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:58:32 +0000

Castillo “hit into a double play every other at bat”

At first glance, Davis, Wright, Pagan, Reyes, Thole, Bay, and Francoeur all grounded into more double plays. I thought that your comment might have been a small sample size relic: You were at a few games at ShCiti Field and Castillo bounced into a few memorably inopportune double plays, like that memorably inopportune dropped pop-up.

If this was the only baseball game I had ever seen, I might have thought that Shawon Dunston had the plate discipline of Rickey Henderson and that Hector Villanueva* was the second coming of Johnny Bench.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN199105010.shtml

But no, you are correct. GDP/PA with runners at first and less than 2 out:

.157 Thole
.133 Castillo
.112 Davis
.108 Beltran
.105 Cora
.099 Reyes
.098 Wright
.092 Mets average
.085 Pagan
.085 Bay
.068 Francoeur
.067 Barajas

Good call! And lookie: Something Jeff Francoeur was good at!

*Villanueva had flown in about a dozen family members from Puerto Rico. It was the first time they saw him play in an MLB game and he was the hero. Imagine having your best day the first time your mom and dad and your sisters and your cousins which you reckon up by dozens and your aunts get to see you play in The Show. How cool is that?

By: jstrizzle

jstrizzle — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:25:45 +0000

As a baseball fan I am not color blind. In fact, I hate both Colors and Whites. It all really depends on what color the opposing team is wearing that day. Overall, I have always liked players on my team. Minus Nick Punto and AJ Pierzynski

By: ralphdibny

ralphdibny — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:23:17 +0000

I’ve always felt a little bad for Castillo and Juan Pierre. It’s not their fault that so many people overvalued them after they kicked the Yankees asses in the 2003 WS. That brief moment in the sun got both of them reputations that they didn’t deserve. Castillo was slightly better than average with the bat at his peak, and then he got old.

Mets fans should save their anger for a front office that would sign a 30 year old former Marlins second baseman to a four year contract. (What’s that you say? The Braves just signed a 30 year old Marlins second baseman to a five year contract? Well, I’m sure that will work out completely differently.)

By: atlsp

atlsp — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:38:51 +0000

Racephooey. Mets fans hate on Castillo because of his contract. Minaya gave him that outrageous 4yr/$25m deal that only inflated the already overreaching expectations of Mets fans. If David Murphy had been putting up those same numbers and making those same plays at 2B do you think he’d receive the vileness that Castillo has? No. And it wouldn’t be because Murphy is white and Castillo is Hispanic, it would be because Castillo makes $6m/yr while Murphy makes $400k/yr.

But as a Braves fan I thoroughly enjoyed the Luis Castillo era in Flushing…

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:26:51 +0000

Craig, there is PLENTY of racism going on in the world. However, when an idiot like Andy Martino blames race on the fact that Luis Castillo was not well liked by Mutts fans, he does a disservice to whatever true racism exists. Did some people not like Castillo because of his race? Absolutely. Just as some people don’t like Obama. And some people didn’t like Bush. And some people don’t like YOU. They are just inherent racists!! White or black, they don’t like people who aren’t their own race. Happens EVERYWHERE in EVERY country on the planet. They are 0.01% of the world’s population. If you want to blame them for everything that happens in the world, then you are being very short-sighted.

I’m all for beating up on racists. I’m all for firing people like Imus when they say stupid things. But to denigrate a whole population of people, even though they are Mutt fans, pisses me off not only for them, but for those people who truly are discriminated against.

By: nygf

nygf — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:14:11 +0000

Alright, I have to weigh in here. First, the offending author, Martino, is an insufferable prick who doesn’t like the Mets and it shows in his NYDaily pieces. He replaced the far superior Adam Rubin, who now works for ESPN and left after he was called out by Minaya for no reason other than a blatant display of ass covering in the midst of yet another embarassing scandal. The quality of NY sports journalism has declined in recent years with the growing popularity of online editions and getting “hits”. Whether or not Martino actually believes all the jurors in To Kill a Mockingbird were wearing Mets hats I’m not sure. But a lot of people sure read his article today with that headline

Second, Mets fans who blog the Daily News site where the article first came out are up in arms about this and are calling the last straw for Martino. A broad, sweeping accusation/generalization is a root cause for racism to begin with, no? .

Third, the issue at hand: the sentiments towards Castillo. I am one of the Mets fans who don’t like him. Aside from the obvious reasons, some of them have been listed above, I’ll provide some less obvious ones. Yes, he hit .302 in 2009, a lost year (the VAST amjority of his hits were singles, he had about a dozen doubles), but couldn’t hit water falling out of a boat the year before, 2008, a year we missed the playoffs by a game. The biggest thing, though, stems from the general frustration with the ownership. They tell profound bold face lies and act like they really think their fans are dumb enough to believe them (case in point: Oliver Perez is still in camp, theyre trying to pass it off like he still has something left to contibute when everyone knows theyre too proud [for whatever reason] to admit they were dead wrong and eat the rest of the money). Castillo had another albatross contract that had one year left. Since we are basically conceding this year before it begins, why not see what some of the younger guys have rather than waste more time on a guy who isn’t in the long term plans and will be able to provide in a BEST CASE scenario a line of .280-1-45-15?

Hope that helps.

By: nps6724

nps6724 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:04:11 +0000

The problem is seemingly every time a minority is criticized or fired/released/cut, someone inevitably asks “Was it a racist decision??” Color the guy white and the same criticisms are suddenly valid. IMO it’s nothing more than a hack writer’s way of easily finding a story for the day instead of doing any real work.

I wonder how it would go over if a GM came out and said he was going to construct a heavily white roster. I imagine not nearly as well as Minaya’s.

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:01:20 +0000

So what you’re saying is that Mets fans are even handed with the hate? I like it. I now view them as a collective Clint Eastwood with a shot gun from Grand Torino; “Alla you ballplayers; get offa my lawn!”

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:00:58 +0000

Craig – I’m guessing the percentage for “c” would even be higher then 90%.

By: davebrownspiral

davebrownspiral — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:51:33 +0000

It was either Castillo’s race or overall crappyness that caused Mets fans to turn on him. I’m going with the latter. The “race card” is always thrown out there by people with agendas and/or as an excuse for failure for groups of people or individuals who don’t want to accept responsibility for their actions and behavior. The race card is tiresome and weak. The leader of the free world is African American. Enough with the racist crap. Somebody is always going to hate individuals or people because of something albeit you’re Irish, black, hispanic, white, from the south, you’re a liberal, you’re a conservative, the way you style your hair, etc. Some people just hate; stop crying about it. Castillo was overpaid and he sucked, (which is the defining theme of the Mets team), that’s why he was despised. I don’t know of one Mets fan that likes any player on the team. Jason Bay was booed and the target of ridicule from Mets fans last year last year? Was that racist? No, he just sucked, just like Mr. Castillo.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:51:10 +0000

Mets fans don’t seem to like anyone on the team, regardless of race. Castillo can be lumped in with Reyes, Beltran, Santana and Bay as guys who are hurt too much. Wright has the audacity to not hit 40HR every year. Pagan and Davis are not disliked, but regarded with a great deal of skepticism. Mets fans also hated on Delgado, Glavine, Kaz, LoDuca and others.

So you see, Mets fans hate for their players is completely independent of race, ability or rationale.

By: sdelmonte

sdelmonte — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:50:17 +0000

It’s a complicated question. On the one hand, a lot of the trouble spots in Flushing came from players who happen to be Latino. The disdain for K-Rod, Minaya, and Perez was deserved. That disdain would surely be there if their names were Jones, McCoy and Van Slyke.

On the other hand, a lot of fans seemed to resent the Mets’ (IMO intelligent) efforts to draw a bigger Latino audience, and some of those fans no doubt believed that if Minaya had not pursued a “Latinos first” policy, things would be better.

There is of course no way to be sure what Castillo’s detractors (aside from the openly racist) think. But Jason Bay could be a good test case if he continues to underproduce. If the same vitriol comes his way, the fans are just angry at yet another waste of money and space. If not, it might indicate something we don’t want to admit.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:43:13 +0000

You could say the same about Jose Reyes on a slightly longer scale. I don’t know what that means, since he is also a dark skinned Dominican though.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:39:57 +0000

Wasn’t a segment of the fans and NY media blaming David Wright for many of the Mets woes as recently as last year, suggesting that it was time to trade him?

By: Dan in Katonah

Dan in Katonah — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:37:48 +0000

Beltran is more of a case of disappointment due to injury. If he were healthy and producing, no problem. I have even forgiven him for the called third strike to end game 7 of the NCLS. Almost.