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So the Dodgers can’t throw at guys anymore?

Apr 14, 2011, 12:30 PM EDT

Los Angeles Dodgers v San Francisco Giants Getty Images

Buster Posey was plunked twice yesterday and he wasn’t happy about it. Nor would I be, of course. It has to hurt. And if it’s not accidental it’s just lame. I hate plunkings and beanball wars. It’s dangerous stuff and, though it always has been and always will be part of baseball, I wish it wasn’t.

But I find this take on it from Andrew Baggarly of the Mercury-News to be a bit odd:

Am I the only one who remembered the display from Monday’s game, when players from both sides stood together and decried senseless acts of violence? Apparently, the Dodgers forgot the message … If Lilly was taking aim at Posey, then the Dodgers were dumb to be seeking revenge. And worse, they were deaf to the tone these two clubs attempted to set just two days earlier.

It seems to me that you either think it’s OK to plunk guys or you don’t. If you don’t, there are no circumstances under which you’d approve of Posey getting hit intentionally, so Baggarly’s extended explanation of why this particular plunking was wrong is beside the point.

If you do think that it’s OK to throw at someone — and Baggarly’s explanation of the circumstances suggests that he thinks that there is a time and a place for it, just not here —  I’m not sure how the Bryan Stow stuff and the anti-violence message enters into it, because that seems to be a totally different thing altogether. That business is about fan behavior and not taking the rivalry outside-the-lines. It’s not about in-game tactics and aggression.

If it was, then we probably need to revisit a lot of other stuff. Like takeout slides at second and plowing into the catcher at home.  Baggarly isn’t suggesting we do that, is he?

  1. scatterbrian - Apr 14, 2011 at 12:41 PM

    The message I got from the pregame jazz was that the battles take place between the players, and take place on the field.

    • canofcorn66 - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:55 PM

      “You call that jazz?!?” – Wynton Marsalis

  2. lardin - Apr 14, 2011 at 12:44 PM

    I know I am in the minority but, why cant pitchers occasionally scare the crap out if hitters? Bob Gibson did it. Pedro Martinez did it. Nolan Ryan Did it. Roger Clemens did it. Batters go up to the plate covered in armor, crowd the plate, and get pissed off when a pitcher throws the ball inside, what a bunch of babies.

    The problem is umpires get in the way of teams policing themselves..

    • scatterbrian - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:01 PM

      I think if you wear armor at the plate, you should have to wear it on the bases as well.

    • sayheykidwschamp - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:08 PM

      Nope looks like you are in the majority judging by the thumbs up. Senseless violence it is…fans beware!

  3. skipp504 - Apr 14, 2011 at 1:04 PM

    Is everyone forgetting that Lincecum drilled Uribe the day before? Although it was definitely not intentional, that was the third time Uribe has been hit this season. Pitchers have to protect their guys sometimes, just like lardin suggests.

    • lardin - Apr 14, 2011 at 2:12 PM

      I also support scaring the crap out of hitters. Batters are way to comfortable at the plate. Pitchers should be aloud to intimidate hitters. Gibson, Ryan, Clemens, Pedro and Randy Johnson used to with out fear of being tossed. I watched Pedro drill Jeter and Alphonso Soriano in back to back at bats in the first inning of game that led to both players coming out of the game because of Injury. Guess What, Pedro pitched a great game that day

      • blabidibla - Apr 14, 2011 at 2:43 PM

        I’d say Most of those pitchers you mention rarely had to stand with a bat in their hands and face the same music. Get rid of the DH and this discussion would have more merit.

    • sayheykidwschamp - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:11 PM

      No one is forgetting, but like you said, it was unintentional. So I guess violence it is. They look at you funny, plunk em. They look at their HR too long, plunk em. They wear the wrong jersey, plunk em. Oh, but not in the head, we have morals afterall.

  4. Chris Fiorentino - Apr 14, 2011 at 2:17 PM

    What does a professional pitcher hitting a batter with a pitch in a baseball game have to do with thugs beating up on a guy outside the stadium after a game? One is a part of the game and has been forever. The other is a crime.

  5. sayheykidwschamp - Apr 14, 2011 at 2:20 PM

    Wow Craig, you just don’t get it. Maybe this will help. Put on a Giants jersey, go to the 2 game set in Dodger Stadium in mid-May. Enjoy the game, and see if you make it out of Dodger stadium without getting physically attacked.

    The Giants were trying to keep the aggressive tone of the rivalry down. They did that last year when Rowand got beaned in the face and was out half the season. The Giants never retaliated. That’s how Bochy has his players play the game. Can’t say that Mattingly has the same class since he ordered a double beaning of Posey.

    Maybe after you attend a game and see what it is to be on the hated team at Dodger stadium, you might change your tone. If the players don’t do a little extra in this series to prevent adding fuel to the already heated rivalry, then more fans will be critically injured or worse because of a game.

    The Giants stayed classy, the Dodgers went right back to the rivalry.

    • scatterbrian - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:11 PM

      Settle down. I’ve done exactly that (just in June) and wasn’t attacked. People flicked shit at me, which is just fine, but no one was confrontational or out of line in any way. And I’m 5′ 6″ so it’s not like I’m intimidating in the least.

      Dodger Stadium isn’t the greatest environment, but your implication that being a Giants fan inevitably leads to some type of altercation is nonsense.

      • sayheykidwschamp - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:21 PM

        Actually my assertion is that the Giants as a team toned down the action to insure that they did not add fuel to the fire. So I was addressing his assertion that Dodger’s pitchers can’t plunk anyone ever again. And by asking Craig to visit a Dodger Giants rivalry, I was aiming to have Craig understand how the rivalry has gotten out of hand. And in the short term until things have calmed down and the rivalry can go back to a good natured experience, that both teams control their on field actions.

        But at the end of the day, Bryan Stow was attacked for doing nothing other than wearing a Giants jersey, on a day when the Dodgers won the game.

      • scatterbrian - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:56 PM

        I’m responding to your first paragraph, which implies that being a Giants fan in Dodger Stadium is an invitation for a beating. It is not.

      • sayheykidwschamp - Apr 14, 2011 at 4:13 PM

        Well here’s my response to your response: I did have one other assertion. That wearing a Giants jersey doesn’t guarantee that you will get physically attacked at a Dodger game at Chavez. I was asserting that it increases your chances dramatically of being attacked at a Dodger game.

      • scatterbrian - Apr 14, 2011 at 4:34 PM

        I have worn a Giants jersey to Dodger Stadium on more than one occasion, without incident.

      • kerryanne123 - Apr 14, 2011 at 8:48 PM

        I’m a 5’2″ 110 pounds female and ive been assaulted at dodger stadium (for rooting for the mets) and harassed everytime ive been there.

        You dont have to be a giants fan, you are right, you just have to be a fan of any other team BESIDES the dodgers, and where the fk does it say in the dodger code of conduct its okay to flick shit at people? it doesnt. those people that flick shit should be thrown out but theyre not, because the ushers are scared of them! ANYONE should be able to go to a game and root for their team when THEY PAID MONEY TO DO SO, without getting shit flicked at them for 2 hours. come on man, i think youre a liar if you say youve worn giants jersey and not been harassed. IM A GIRL AND I GET HARASSED! theres no way you dont, the difference is maybe you like being harassed but most of the free world does not!

    • canofcorn66 - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:29 PM

      Look, the fact that the guy got the crap beat out of him at Dodger stadium is tragic, and for anyone to suggest otherwise is a moron. Simple as that.

      But the fact that the whole incident encourages Giants fans to take up their holier-than-thou mantles and look down their coast-length noses at Dodger fans and Los Angeles in general really burns my coffee. It was a couple of isolated punks who committed a horrific act. Keep your sweeping, shrill generalizations to yourself.

      • sayheykidwschamp - Apr 14, 2011 at 3:41 PM

        Spoken like a true Dodger. From your angry rhetoric to fan violence. Move along, nothing to see here.

      • kerryanne123 - Apr 14, 2011 at 8:57 PM

        Uhhh im not a Giants fan, burn your coffee? I live in LA and I goto dodger stadium all the time and all the holier than thou attitudes excite me! perhaps it means there will actually be change at dodger stadium and i can go without getting shit flicked at me, spit at me, thrown at me, hit at me…. I dont understand, all these people who dont see the problems at dodger stadium must have cash money that allows them to sit in the good seats hahah shit just dont make any sense. You know what burns MY COFFEE!? that everyone else who has ever suffered any sort of injustice at dodger stadium was SILENCED because people like YOU wouldnt pay attention to the serious matter at hand. AND IT SICKENS ME that it took a giants fan with brain damage for anyone to care. When people get shit chucked at them, spit on, peed on, hit, stabbed and shot, people should pay attention because it will undoubtfully lead to the events that have occurred. Had SOMEONE, ANYONE, listened earlier, maybe this terrible event would not have occurred.

  6. The Rabbit - Apr 14, 2011 at 2:55 PM

    There’s a difference between brushbacks and headhunting. The pitcher should have access to the outside corner. If the batter wants to lean across the plate, it does it at his own risk. This should not lead to a headhunting war.
    Although now that I think about it, Dock Ellis threw at half the Cincinnati lineup (before being removed from the game) in retaliation for being denied entry to the park and then maced by a security guard who didn’t recognize him as the starting pitcher and refused to accept his ID. If his “outing” changed the hiring policy and overall sensitivities of Reds management, maybe there is a time and place for headhunting.

    • BC - Apr 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM

      There’s never a place for headhunting. If you want to hit someone, aim for where the sun doesn’t shine. Will leave a bruise rather than risking permanent debilitating injury.

  7. The Rabbit - Apr 14, 2011 at 6:23 PM

    If you want to hit someone, aim for where the sun doesn’t shine. Will leave a bruise rather than risking permanent debilitating injury.

    I agree with you completely. I didn’t mean it literally. It was just the only single word I could think of that meant throwing at a batter.
    Maybe I should have used the phrase “sending a message”; however, as you can tell, there’s disagreement as to whether it’s ever appropriate.

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