There is no way to rectify an anti-steroid view with a pro-Rose view. Either you accept steroids and gambling as not a big deal and Rose as a HOFer, or you accept steroids or gambling as bad for the game and Rose is out. Take your pick. Since he was involved heavily with both, you can’t pick one and compare it against the other and say it wasn’t so bad.

Steriods and other PEDs full effect hasn’t been felt yet. But they did hurt the game a lot. Because of the records and WS winning teams that had players who clearly used them, the game has no integrity left. Thats all the more reason to put Rose in the HOF. The history,( if nothing changes******) is forever ruined by PEDs. Baseball was a game that the history meant something, but records are just a joke now.

Let’s also remember one more thing. Let’s stop viewing the Baseball Hall of Fame as place where one must be beatified in order to enter. Many of the players whose accomplishments are celebrated within those “hallowed” halls were much less than saints.

The HOF celebrates ON THE FIELD accomplishments. In a society where men are paid $100 million + to play a game and we welcome back as a conquering hero someone who maimed, tortured and murdered innocent animals, let’s not lose our sense of perspective.

As Dennis Miller says… That’s just my opinion – I could be wrong.

By the way… I’m a Dodger fan. Can’t stand the Reds!

Could they have been used before? Sure. I wouldn’t be suprised if a few players had done them previous to the mid-80′s. However there is no evidence that they were widespread until that point.

Which drugs have you been taking?

By the way, I remember reading that in the early days of baseball it was common and accepted for players to bet on their own teams. No one thought this was a bad practice. I personally think this IS a bad practice, but I throw out this factoid FWIW.

The most irritating part of this debate is when people contrast Bonds and others with the supposedly “clean” players — when in fact we don’t know of ANY player who was definitely clean. When Bonds broke Aaron’s HR record 4 years ago, there was a lot of chatter of from the people who obsess over steroids about how wonderful it would be when a Clean Player like A-Rod broke The Cheater’s record.

Oops.

It looks like steroid use in that era was a bit like cheating on your taxes — in Italy, where almost everyone does it, it is widely tolerated, and there is little or no enforcement of the laws on the books that prohibit it. That does not make it right, but it makes it a lot less wrong than it would be in a different context, where the behavior is rare, clearly disapproved of by society, and subject to clear and severe penalties.

If we insist on tar and feathering Rose lets stick to the things that he actually did, .. bet on baseball. That’s more than enough.

Stopping people from mingling with the criminal element is a great idea. But Pete Rose didn’t throw a game and never put up less than a great effort. In fact, he did less to harm the actual result of a game than Hanley Ramirez does every time Hanley loafs to first base or jogs after a bad throw.

And yes, he’s still a scumbag

Read those. Rose was all over getting steroids into the game. There are two people who I consider to be among the worst things to happen to the game in my lifetime. One is Pete Rose. The other is Tony LaRussa.

Obviously gambling with mobsters isn’t the worst crime a person can commit. It isn’t rape, murder or kidnapping (and neither is steroid use). But gambling has the unique ability to create a perception that games are fixed, and therefore meaningless and not worth spending money on. That’s what makes No Gambling baseball’s Prime Directive, and that’s why Rose’s crime was infinitely worse for baseball than anything the done by the hundreds of players who have used PEDs.

How could you not, right? Hit leader, One of the hardest players ever, a-hole on many fronts. People either love him, Hate him, or can’t decide and stick with both, like myself.

One thing for sure is the man asked for what he got.

So far as I am concerned, Rose is at ground zero of the steroid epidemic in the sport. Even if you somehow can excuse his gambling(I can’t), you can’t get around the fact that he had a major role in popularizing steroid use in the game. You pretty much have to forgive both of those offenses to build a case for Rose being allowed back in the sport in any capacity.

Rather than go to bat for this unabashed liar, how about we get Marvin Miller into the HOF before he passes. That is the true shameful omission of our time.

True but if the pitcher throwing the pitch is taking PEDs too that doe put things in a different light. Or, what if there are three or four position players on the opposite team taking PEDs to match the three or four guys on your team then isn’t it a wash?

I’m not defending PEDs use but clearly it is nearly impossible to say with any certainty exactly how pervasive PEDs use was or still is so it’s equally impossible to determine the real impact on the game.