Comments on: First-third awards: 2011 NL Rookie of the Year http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/ Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball. Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:19:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: spudchukar http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143990 Tue, 31 May 2011 22:37:30 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143990 A little more love for Darwin Barney, I should think.

]]> By: Tim OShenko http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143944 Tue, 31 May 2011 21:36:19 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143944 I have to both agree and disagree with you here, bjavie. I disagree with your charge that WAR is meaningless. Even if it requires adjustment, it’s still a useful tool for comparing ballplayers – as long as we’re talking two guys who play the same position.

However, I agree that it’s not the “be all, end all” stat that some may like it to be. And this chart is a pretty good indication of why. According to WAR, Ramos is leading the pack of NL rookies, even though Miranda has better numbers across the board. Why? Because Miranda plays a power hitter’s position, and is only doing what’s expected of a 1B.

Ramos is awesome, and as a Twins fan, I wish they still had him, but I’m not ready to hand him the ROY award (or even the 1/3rd-season ROY award) when guys like Miranda and Turner are putting up better numbers.

]]> By: umrguy42 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143938 Tue, 31 May 2011 21:33:01 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143938 bjavie, just to play devil’s advocate, actually, Avg. w/ RISP could be disputed – what if player B gets a lot more ABs w/ RISP than player A? Especially if, say, player A’s average there seems to be more of a statistical fluke? Or if say, both aren’t everyday players (like backup catchers)?

]]> By: bjavie http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143918 Tue, 31 May 2011 21:15:18 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143918 There are plenty of statistics that are valid and agreed upon, so it’s not just someone’s use that makes me dislike WAR. It’s more that, based purely on the way WAR is figured, it’s more “an opinion expressed as a number” than a stat. Not unlike saying that girl is an 8, while that girl is a 7.

I can tell you that Player A’s Avg. w/ RISP is .450 and Player B’s is .325. That’s a fact and it cannot be disputed that Player A is a better clutch hitter.

But, if you say that Player A had a WAR of 4 and Player B had a WAR of 3, I am not really sure that tells anyone anything other than one’s was higher than the other when you account for the required “adjustments.” I’d be interested in the difference between websites on WAR, from my understanding it is possible that there could be significant differences based on “how one chooses to figure the stat.”

]]> By: Matthew Pouliot http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143909 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:53 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143909 So let’s throw out the stat because “some dude” over at SI said something? Besides, either you’re misremembering or he got it wrong.

WAR is a valid tool. But it’s just one in the kit.

]]> By: Matthew Pouliot http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143905 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:51:09 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143905 Morrison was well over the limit with 244 at-bats last year.

]]> By: vforleo http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143887 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:37:48 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143887 What about Logan Morrison? Isn’t he a rookie? and even though he has a stint on the DL he is still putting up great numbers.

]]> By: bjavie http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143885 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:36:04 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143885 Again, why do people view WAR as an actual statistic? Or, anything with meaning?

1. There is no agreed upon way to fgure the stat, so one has to disclose where they got it. Opening it up for scrutity based solely on who figured it. “Site A’s way of figuring a made up statistic sucks. Site B knows what they are doing.”

2. It requires an adjustment. No ‘figure’ that requires an adjustment can be a statistic. It just can’t.

Recall last year when some dude over at SI.com said that Roy Oswalt’s WAR was 1 compared to Jamie Moyer….ONE!!!! The Phils went something like 12-1 in the games Oswalt pitched. They would have been .500 at best if Moyer had pitched.

Sorry folks, it’s not a real stat and is meaningless. Yet, it sems to be HBT’s new bible on greatness.

]]> By: Utley's Hair http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143872 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:11:30 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143872 With a minute sample size, Justin Turner shreds Phightins pitching.

]]> By: jimbo1949 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143871 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:11:25 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143871 Natinals, 2 out of the top 3? Wait til next year.

]]> By: Utley's Hair http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143869 Tue, 31 May 2011 20:10:25 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143869 No matter where he is—box or field—he looks like he has no control over his appendages.

And what’s with the double post? You trying to make me feel drunk without the pleasure of getting that way?

]]> By: sdelmonte http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143845 Tue, 31 May 2011 19:42:38 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143845 The very idea that Justin Turner’s name would be in this story boggles the mind. He is no ROY, but he’s been a very pleasant surprise so far.

]]> By: drmonkeyarmy http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143834 Tue, 31 May 2011 19:33:58 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143834 He has an odd way about him. Looks like he is off balance when he swings sometimes. However, the ball just jumps off his bat. I think he is going to be a good one.

]]> By: drmonkeyarmy http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143835 Tue, 31 May 2011 19:33:58 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143835 He has an odd way about him. Looks like he is off balance when he swings sometimes. However, the ball just jumps off his bat. I think he is going to be a good one.

]]> By: Utley's Hair http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143819 Tue, 31 May 2011 19:20:43 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143819 Here’s hoping.

]]> By: mss16 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/31/first-third-awards-2011-nl-rookie-of-the-year/comment-page-1/#comment-143767 Tue, 31 May 2011 18:15:16 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=60810#comment-143767 By August, Dom Brown’s name will be on top of this list.

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