Comments on: Curt Schilling: “There isn’t a team in the last 20 years that has won clean” http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/ Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball. Wed, 22 May 2013 12:38:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: ryanmallettsbluntwrap http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-160483 Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:10:59 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-160483 Curt schilling , Manny , Ortiz , and then the whole entire Yankee staff , didn’t you hear Curts supplier was Andy Petitte and Roger Clemens ?

]]> By: pisano http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159459 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 22:54:12 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159459 I’ll bet this scumbag is as dirty as the people he’s accusing.

]]> By: dan1111 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159458 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 22:53:40 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159458 If Schilling, as he says, didn’t take steroids, then he made a significant sacrifice by refusing to get take advantage of an edge that others were getting. And yet, he was “complicit” because he didn’t also tattle on all of his teammates?

That is asking an awful lot of him. Think about what that would have done to his career.

]]> By: dan1111 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159455 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 22:42:36 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159455 The peak argument is an argument made about batters. Batters follow a typical pattern of peak and decline. Pitchers don’t, because the pitching skill set is different. Lots of pitchers have peaked later in their careers or had other unusual career progressions.

]]> By: drmonkeyarmy http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159422 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:15:44 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159422 I think that is a skewed way of looking at things. Wouldn’t it be more apt to compare his numbers from 29-32 with the numbers from 34-37? I mean, Schilling was dominant the last 4 years in Philadelphia. He had a rough year when he was traded but then was dominant the next 4 years again. Not an apt comparison at all. It isn’t like he just started being super awesome in his mid 30′s.

]]> By: drmonkeyarmy http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159407 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:54:17 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159407 Kopy,
Amphetamine salts (Adderall) or Methylphenidate (Ritalin) are commonly abused by college students because it enables them to focus on the material and study longer. Often described as being “zoned in”. I would assume that baseball players who are non ADD or ADHD would display similar effects….increased concentration, focus, etc. That would be a means to artificially enhance performance in my opinion.

]]> By: drmonkeyarmy http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159404 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:49:10 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159404 Haha…that is funny Cur. I guarantee you that I am not a rogue chemist or pharmacist. My days of being a rouge anything have long since passed.

]]> By: The Common Man http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159387 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:16:50 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159387 “These are not factual numbers, of course. Just trying to illustrate a point.”

Halladaysbicepts has been getting his figures from John Kyl, apparently.

]]> By: halladaysbiceps http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159358 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:42:42 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159358 trevorb06,

Agreed. Sorry I crossed the line with you in the past. Hopefully, we can talk some good baseball.

]]> By: trevorb06 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159352 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:37:32 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159352 Well ‘cepts I hope you come back with a whole new outlook on commenting and keep the garbage in your can at home.

]]> By: thefalcon123 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159342 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:20:03 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159342 I mean, it’s obvious there were a ton of roiders for every team. For me, the most obvious users were the ones who peaked super late.

Consider this guy:
Age 25-33: 127 ERA+, 8.3 K/9 IP

and then
Age 34-37: 151 ERA+, 9.9 K/9 IP

Oh wait…that guy is Curt Schilling, isn’t it?

(note: not actually accusing Schilling of using steroids. Merely commenting on the people who constantly make the late peak/steroids connection)

]]> By: deathmonkey41 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159339 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:04:25 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159339 “I ask myself; what would this ‘rogue chemist’ be like?”

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u3761/photo_opt.jpg

]]> By: marshmallowsnake http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159337 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:03:12 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159337 Can I please have some cash if you can afford that fine? :)

]]> By: ditto65 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159314 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:29:32 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159314 Schilling “knew” PED use was taking place.
Schilling did nothing to stop it.
Schilling was complicit.

It does not matter that Schilling “played during the steroids and HGH era and I never did either.”
He benefitted from those who did (perhaps a stable mate in the rotation, reliever helping the rotation, or a batter improving run support).

Get off your pedestal, Schilling.

]]> By: ditto65 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159307 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:22:38 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159307 Good point – the non-champions of the last 20 years were also dirty.

]]> By: halladaysbiceps http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159306 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:22:29 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159306 Agreed.

“How about an article on teams that were 100% clean the last 20 years.”

You will never see it because it can never be proven and the article itself would not get enough internet hits.

]]> By: Chris Fiorentino http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159302 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:15:18 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159302 Here’s what is totally dumb about this whole article and this whole concept. If you want to compare a steroid user to a non-steroid user, that’s OK. It’s apples and oranges and you can say “apples” did it “clean” while “oranges” did it “dirty. However, to say that “There isn’t a team in the last 20 years that has won clean” means nothing. So what? Who cares? MUCH OF BASEBALL WAS DIRTY THE LAST 20 YEARS!!! So when it is “dirty” vs. “dirty” who really gives a crap which “dirty” team won??? Again, if you want to say Hank Aaron is the “clean” home run champion, then that makes sense and actually MATTERS. If you want to say the last 20 WS winners were “dirty”…so what…so was most of baseball.

How about an article on teams that were 100% clean the last 20 years…I’d like to see THAT list.

]]> By: paperlions http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159301 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:13:19 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159301 There are a number of reasons that Schilling comes off poorly in interviews, but one is that he is always pointing fingers in a fashion that singles out particular individuals. Did Schilling also mention that he didn’t any team in the last 20 years lost clean? By singling out “winners” he is suggesting that the won because they cheated, which is patently false. Every team had PED users, the playing field was pretty even, and you won or lost playing on that same field.

]]> By: Chris Fiorentino http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159297 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:10:05 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159297 “Pablo Ozuna, a member of the ’05 Sox, tested positive in 2009, so officially no World Series winners have been “clean” from 1995-2010″

]]> By: deathmonkey41 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159290 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:04:09 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159290 Kirby Puckett was definately using. You don’t get an Adonis body like that naturally.

]]> By: cur68 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159287 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:02:41 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159287 Still scoffing, buddy. Nice idea with the chemist but touch improbable, I think. Isn’t the truth often the simplest answer? A highly motivated, non-law abiding, no attention seeking, small reward, non nobel prize winner vs hard work, a ton of talent, opportunity and the right team? Plenty of MLB guys fit the latter profile vs. only a very small number of people in the world would qualify for ‘rogue chemist’ status.

I ask myself; what would this ‘rogue chemist’ be like? Why, such a person would likely be young (for a scientist) and in a position to come in contact with lots of drugs. He’d probably bill himself as something innocuous but medically related. Perhaps as a humble young pharmacist on an open message board (the open message board of course because he would have to have some way of telling if people were on to him yet; sort of a litmus test of opinion). Such a ‘pharmacist’ would display certain key attributes; a distinct antipathy for sabermetrics, a non-conformist attitude (probably has tattoos; like LOTS), demonstrate a huge amount of knowledge of drugs, be a hard core, knowledgeable baseball fan, and be enamored of a specific team which is lights-out best in MLB. Such people don’t exist…right?

]]> By: deathmonkey41 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159286 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:02:24 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159286 “Agreed, Doctor. Besides Carlton and Doc, Schilling was the greatest Phillies pitcher I’ve seen in my lifetime.”

How does Adam Eaton not make that list???

]]> By: halladaysbiceps http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159285 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:59:43 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159285 Yesterday. Craig was gracious enough to do so. The fine was 1 billion dollars.

]]> By: deathmonkey41 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159284 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:59:28 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159284 I think he had to come out and say this because everyone knows that the teams he were on were juiced to the hilt and all he’s been doing is ripping players who weren’t part of those teams for the same thing. Maybe he was getting tired of being called a hypocrite. Of course, he also said that Luis Gonzalez was the best “clean” hitter that he’s ever played with, so his word isn’t exactly scripture.

]]> By: paperlions http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159283 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:59:11 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159283 In the 1960′s Sports Illustrated was doing cover stories on PEDs in sports, including baseball. If SI was reporting on it in the 1960s, it is highly likely that a lot of players were already using whatever was available (and at the time legal) all the way back then. As most now realize, journalists rarely get out in front of such stories. It typically takes a while before they are even aware of the situation, much less able to report on it. It is highly likely that the last “clean” WS champion was over 40 yrs ago.

]]> By: marshmallowsnake http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159281 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:56:57 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159281 Wait…when did you get let back in, and how big was the fine?

]]> By: dcg13 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159276 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:51:36 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159276 Except for the 2005 White Sox. No one on that team has been linked to steroids.

]]> By: paperlions http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159275 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:51:29 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159275 Schilling could always decline the interview request. The fact is that Schilling simply loves to hear himself speak.

]]> By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159269 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:40:34 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159269

I don’t know that amphetamines actually have those performance enhancing attributes. From what I’ve always heard, players liked them so they could stay in the lineup during a long stretch when they were feeling “down” after too many games in a row.

that’s where the issue of what a “performance enhancer” actually is (spare the viagra jokes). Let’s say everyone on opening day is healthy, so that’s their baseline ability. As the season wears on, players used to take amphetamines to get back to that baseline ability, maybe slightly above. Is that a performance enhancer because it got them back to their normal ability? This is similar to HGH which most studies have shown only helped people get back to their normal baseline (aka doesn’t help normal, healthy individuals).

Contrast that with steroids which, i think we can all agree, took players well beyond their baseline ability.

]]> By: FC http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/07/curt-schilling-%e2%80%9cthere-isn%e2%80%99t-a-team-in-the-last-20-years-that-has-won-clean%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-159250 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:19:11 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=69118#comment-159250 Personality wise he may be more of an ass. But hey, the man plays table-top war-games and video-games. That’s cool. It’s kind of like Vin Diesel playing Dungeons & Dragons.

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