Skip to content

Heyman: Rockies want four from Yankees for Ubaldo Jimenez

Jul 17, 2011, 7:40 PM EDT

Ubaldo Jimenez Getty Images

It was a given that the Rockies would ask for the moon in return for Ubaldo Jimenez.  Who knew they’d want a planet, too?

According to SI.com’s Jon Heyman, the Rockies have asked the Yankees for catcher Jesus Montero, RHP Ivan Nova and the team’s top two pitching prospects — Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances — in return for Jimenez.

Jimenez is worthy of a big-time payout — he’d be under control through 2013 at a bargain price — but that’s an extreme return.  One could argue that Montero and Banuelos are both better prospects than any of the three the Red Sox gave up for Adrian Gonzalez over the winter.

For trade talks to progress, the Rockies would likely have to drop their request for both Montero and Banuelos.  At this point, the Yankees are probably more likely to part with Montero, who would have been the centerpiece of a Cliff Lee deal with Seattle last summer.  He’s been a disappointment this year, having hit a modest .288/.347/.413 with seven homers in 281 at-bats for Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.  Still, he has terrific offensive potential and he might flourish following a move to first base.  That’s where the Rockies would likely put him, since they have already have an excellent catching prospect in Willin Rosario.

Banuelos, arguably one of the game’s top-five pitching prospects, has amassed a 3.64 ERA and an 86/45 K/BB ratio in 84 innings as a 20-year-old in Double-A.

In the unlikely event that the two sides are able to come to a deal, my guess is that it would involve Montero, Betances and a lesser prospect.  The Yankees would likely prefer to trade Nova, who would be less likely to be needed in the short term with Jimenez around, but the Rockies are going to need at least one high-upside arm in return for their ace.

  1. poseidonsfist - Jul 17, 2011 at 7:52 PM

    There is absolutely zero chance Dan O’Dowd compromises here, and there is no reason he should. Jimenez isn’t going to be dealt for a fair package. He is the best pitcher ever produced by the Rockies and he is under cheap coneol through 2014. This isn’t A-Gone, who had one year left. Dealing Jimenez is a potential PR nightmare in Colorado, and It would only be worth it to guarantee a huge Haren type farm restockment. Any less and the deal doesn’t make sense for Colorado. O’Dowd isn’t being delusional. If a team is desperate to overpay for a big fish, great. If not, the consolation is an affordable ace for another 110 starts

    • dan1111 - Jul 18, 2011 at 9:55 AM

      Agreed–especially given that the Rockies have a nice core of young players. They’re not exactly in rebuilding mode. They could contend any one of those years. Even this year, they seem out of it–but if they traded him and then got hot for a week or so, they could look pretty silly.

  2. phukyouk - Jul 17, 2011 at 7:55 PM

    Matt,

    you spelled “King Felix” wrong….

    • kappy32 - Jul 17, 2011 at 11:58 PM

      The Yankees are NOT getting Felix Hernandez. Remember, you heard it here first, Felix & Franklin Gutierrez are going to the Sox in a deadline surprise blockbuster that will involve some really good prospects. The Sox know they need another top flight arm because for the next 2 years, no one is beating the Phillies in a best of 7 series unless you can go arm for arm with them.

      • phukyouk - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:33 AM

        Mine was a joke saying that if ANYONE wants a package like that it should be no less than Felix. yours is just sad cause there is no way in hell the sox are getting anyone worthy of a blockbuster.

      • damnyankee13 - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:48 AM

        like they did in ’09?

      • Ari Collins - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM

        Sox COULD get Jimenez. NO ONE could get Felix.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:54 PM

        Ari

        EXACTLY.

        The sense of entitlement among the less sophisticated Yankees fans is alive and well.

        In fact, I would contend that the Mariners are more likely to take offers for Pineda seriously.

      • shawnuel - Jul 24, 2011 at 6:14 PM

        That is also ridiculous because the White Sox have no “really good prospects”. Tyler Flowers? Dayan Viciedo….both not bad…B level but not “really” good.

      • shawnuel - Jul 24, 2011 at 6:17 PM

        I’m an idiot….you mean the Red Sox…..for some reason I thought….ah never mind. The red Sox have enough to get it done, but Theo loathes trading a bunch of young talent for long term contracts. This might be the type if deal that would cause his MO to change, however. But Jack Zduriencik isn’t trading Felix.

  3. Mark - Jul 17, 2011 at 7:55 PM

    Montero’s only really valuable as a C. An 860 OPS 1B/DH isn’t really that impressive. You’d have to think if Montero can’t cut it as a catcher, that Rizzo would be the more promising 1B bat (I only say this because I disagree with your statement about the Pads getting less for Adrian).

    And it would make sense that the Rockies get better prospects, when you figure out the club control Jimenez has over Adrian.

    Regardless that’s really not asking for that much if you believe Montero isn’t a C long term. Jimenez has a ton of value thanks to his performance, age, cost and club control.

    But like I said, I don’t think Montero’s nearly as valuable as most people are led to believe.

    • Matthew Pouliot - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:05 PM

      I concur that Jimenez is worth a better package than Adrian was. I’m just not sure anyone is worth that kind of package.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:34 PM

      Montero is probably more like a .900 OPS 1B in his prime, and he’s got more upside than that. But not as valuable as most people think, agreed on that.

    • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 12:15 AM

      Montero is only 21 and in his 2nd year at AAA. That doesn’t happen often. His numbers are down this year, but he still has tremendous potential. And an .860 OPA in one season of AAA does no mean he will not do better in the future. The Yankees and any scouts checking him out will be looking at his swing mechanics, his approach at the plate and whether or not he has trouble hitting certain types of pitches.

      That said, if the Yankees don’t budge on the Rockies price tag, and the Rockies don’t compromise on that price tag – Jimenez isn’t likely to be going anywhere. Unless the Sox pony up 4 prospects. The thing is, they don’t have atalent like Banuelas – who’s only 19 at AA – although struggling somewhat.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 12:17 AM

        Actually Banuelas is 20, but that is still rare at AA.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:49 AM

        Color me unimpressed by your age arguments. It’s not like they’re in AA or AAA as 17-18 year olds. They’re maybe a year younger than the competition which is hardly anything to write home about.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:11 AM

        seeingwhatsticks:

        Well, you can disagree with me, but on the subject of playing and succeeding at Double-A at 19-21 years old not being impressive, you’d be in disagreement with the guys that get paid to evaluate, draft and develop the talent.

        1) Double-A is – and has been for some time – the level where Major League teams stick their best young talent. That means many, if not most, of a teams best prospects play at Double-A.

        2) Only the best most talented 19-21 year olds get promoted to Double-A from the lower levels. When a guy stinks at AA – he’s still better than almost anyone else you’ve ever played with or against in High School.

        3) As Aaron Gleeman noted here on July 4th (http://tinyurl.com/63ojxwl): the average age of a AA player is TWENTY-FOUR (24) years old.

        Montero was 20 when he was promoted to AAA. Banuelos was 19 when he was promoted to AA.

        No offense, but if you don’t understand why that’s significant given their performances, then you really don’t know as much as you think about baseball.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:16 AM

        Average age is a terrible way to look at it because a number of players are college grads who don’t start their pro careers until 22. If they spend a 2 years in the minor leagues they’re 24 years old. I understand AA is often where the best prospects are but there are also a number of guys who are 27, 28 and fighting for one more shot at the big leagues. You need to look at the average age of legitimate prospects and not the average age of all players.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 5:26 AM

        seeingwhatsticks:

        And ask any scout or player development guy worth a bag of balls and they will tell you that Division 1 baseball is somewhere between High A and Double-A.

        That’s why teams love drafting major program players, because the coaching staffs have already done a lot of the Player Development that would have to be done at the A to Double A levels. That’s why the best of the college players spend a year or two max and often skip AAA before being promoted to The Show.

        Again you can disagree all you like, but the fact is, when you are 19-20 playing at AA or AAA and succeeding you are playing against guys who on average have 3-4 more years of experience than you. If you don’t recognize the significance of that when evaluating a player than I really don’t know what else to say.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 18, 2011 at 3:24 PM

        I understand your arguments I just disagree. I’ve seen enough 20 year olds have success at the major league level (think Bumgarner dominating game 4 of the World Series on the road just 2 months after turning 21) not to get overly excited about guys that are ok at AA at the same age. Like I said, if they were 17-18 and it was boys against men I’d put a lot more weight on their age, but as it is I put more weight on their performance and great MLB players dominate AA and AAA for the most part.

        I think both players can be serviceable major leagues, but why would you trade a low cost All-Star SP for a bunch of role players? It doesn’t make sense unless you think Jiminez will never return to form and that you need to get what you can before anyone else figures that out. Ultimately, if the Yankees (or anyone else) can get Jimenez for a package that doesn’t include any blue chip prospects they probably shouldn’t be going after him.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:11 PM

        As I said, there really isn’t anything else to say, except I’m dumbfounded.

        And – before Bumgarner was pitching in the World Series last year, he was a 19-20 year old at Double-A.

        And – how can you label the prospects we have been discussing as role players?

        And – why do I even care anymore? There are a lot of people who share your viewpoint, and I’m equally frustrated when I hear them call their sports talk station. I guess working at the Double-A has provided me with an insight that many people do not have.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:14 PM

        BTW, I once spent 20 minutes attempting to comfort a First Round pick because he was having a mental breakdown on the concourse after getting shelled the night before. There is A LOT that goes on off the field that people don’t see.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:53 PM

        Bumgarner as a 19 year old in AA: 9-1, 1.93 ERA, 1 CG, 1 SHO, 107 IP, 69 K, 30 BB, 1.028 WHIP, .5 HR/9
        Mike Stanton as a 20 year old in AA: 53 G, 21 HR, 52 RBI, 44 BB, 53 K, .313/.442/.729/1.171

        Both of them were dominant players in AA, even at age 19 or 20 which was the point I am making. Yes they were slightly underage but at that age it’s not boys vs men and elite prospects will still be dominant. Montero has an .860 OPS but A. that’s not going to go UP when he reaches the big leagues, and B. almost no one thinks he’s going to stick at catcher. A 1B with an OPS of around .800 is a solid player but far from a star (to put that in perspective Pena, Wallace, Overbay, Huff and Loney are the only qualifying NL 1B with sub .800 OPS). As I said before, if you’re giving up an All-Star and Cy Young contender with a couple of bargain years left on his deal you need to be getting a potential super star and then some. The Rockies wouldn’t be trading Jimenez because they have to, they’d be trading him as a way to make themselves significantly better in 2 years. Unless they know Jimenez will not return to form they need at least one guy with superstar potential, and probably a couple of guys with a chance to be starters thrown in as well.

        That’s nice that you comforted that kid but it’s totally irrelevant to the conversation. There’s always more going on than we know about and ultimately all fans or talent evaluators care about are results.

      • Kevin S. - Jul 18, 2011 at 9:10 PM

        Because everybody in baseball history peaked when they were 21 y.o. kids in AAA. Oh, wait, most do get better. And most don’t do that well at that age at that level. Just because you’ve found a few isolated examples doesn’t mean we write off players holding their own against players that are typically years older than them.

  4. szwecher24 - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    any chance that a package including Montero, Betances, Nova, and perhaps a lesser prospect would work for both sides?

  5. seeingwhatsticks - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:34 PM

    How can you say that Montero has been a disappointment while saying he’s too good to give up in a package? Isn’t it possible that other teams (including the Rockies) aren’t as impressed by the top Yankee prospects as “conventional wisdom” says they should be? Wouldn’t be the first time the Yanks or Sox hyped an avg prospect into a great one worthy of an All-Star player.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:38 PM

      I’m pretty sure every team hypes its own prospects.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:46 PM

        Sure but not every team has members of the media who repeat the hype verbatim to a national audience, which turns the hype into fact.

      • Ari Collins - Jul 17, 2011 at 9:01 PM

        Yeah, agreed with you about that. And about Montero not being as great as some think if he can’t be a catcher.

        I’m not being biased, either: I’ve never thought that highly of Jose Iglesias either.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:15 AM

        Ari,

        I think you have become my favorite commenter.

        If ever there was and is a hype machine around a player . . . it’s for Iglesias.

        Jose will play in the Majors – and he may be a better fielder than John MacDonald – but Johnny Mac looks like Tony Gwynn with a bat in comparison.

  6. yankeesgameday - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:44 PM

    My gut tells me that ubaldo was a flash in the pan and that the rockies cam see trouble on the horizon with him so they are trying to get something for him before the league us on to it.

    • okobojicat - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:53 PM

      My gut tells me you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:56 PM

        “My gut is also very hungry.”

      • Ari Collins - Jul 17, 2011 at 9:02 PM

        His gut has $#@! for brains.

  7. Ari Collins - Jul 17, 2011 at 8:47 PM

    Teams always ask high. If the Yankees are willing to move prospects for him (as they should; I’d love to see my Sox get involved), something more like Montero, Betances, and a second tier guy is a more realistic package.

  8. aclassyguyfromaclassytown - Jul 17, 2011 at 9:00 PM

    I really hope the Yankees make this deal, cause it would be a bad deal to make. Ubaldo is iffy. Sometimes he’s great. Other times he’s not even good. If you’re gonna give up that much, you better be getting a sure thing in return, and I don’t see Ubaldo as a sure thing.

  9. Ari Collins - Jul 17, 2011 at 9:07 PM

    To those who think Ubaldo is inconsistent: his xFIPs this year and the two years previous are: 3.59, 3.60, 3.59. He’s been as unlucky this year as he was lucky last year. He’s a very good #2 pitcher paid like a #4. And it’s possible he’s better than that, considering what Coors does to breaking balls, which hurts some pitchers beyond what’s in the stats.

  10. proudlycanadian - Jul 17, 2011 at 9:45 PM

    A Double A pitcher with a 3.65 ERA does not seem like one of the top 5 pitching prospects. Just more Yankee hype like last year’s hype for the over rated Montero.

    • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 12:23 AM

      A Double-A Pitcher with a 3.65 ERA who moved through 3 levels last year with ease – as a 19-year old.

      20 years old at Double-A with a 3.65 ERA is impressive even if he has struggled a little as of late – which is to be expected. But that’s only one part of the story.

      It’s the guy’s who can throw multiple pitches for strikes and make adjustments on the fly that make the Majors. So far Banuelos has been doing all the right things.

      • shawnuel - Jul 24, 2011 at 6:26 PM

        And a 20 year old pitcher at Double A with more K’s than IP and a reasonable walk rate, while giving up 20 fewer hits than IP. That is fairly significant dominance.

    • apgreco - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:04 PM

      Stick to hockey. Mariano said Banuelos is the best pitching prospect he has ever seen. That is good enough for me especially at the ripe age of 20. He made the AA all star squad, pitched an inning and struck out the side. Not bad. Banuelos is consistently listed as one of the top prospects in the majors.

  11. itsacurse - Jul 17, 2011 at 9:49 PM

    That package of four players could probably get back almost any pitcher in the majors in return, so why should it be a guy with a lower WAR than Doug Fister?

  12. uyf1950 - Jul 17, 2011 at 10:13 PM

    For the package the Rockies are asking for I have no doubt the Yankees will pass. But if the Yankees get get a deal done for Montero, either Banuelos OR Betances and 2 lesser prospects I’d do it in a heart beat.
    I think Romine has a much better chance of becoming the Yankees full time catcher down the road then Montero and even a couple of years further down the road is Gary Sanchez. As for the Yankees keeping both Banuelos and Betances the chances of both those guys (kids) making the big league team in the future are slim. So what the harm in parting with one for a proven starter and solid #2 in my opinion. As for the lower prospects there are no guarantees that they will every make the Yankees but certainly may be a benefit to a team like the Rockies.
    If Hughes gets his act together and this afternoons game was a very good first step in the process. A future starting rotation for the Yankees of: CC, Jimenez, Hughes, AJ and Nova or Noesi or 1 of the other prospects would be pretty darn good. The other great part is because Jimenez is so affordable the Yankees certainly could go after another high profile FA at the end of 2012 or 2013 with minimum effect on the mythical salary limit for the Yankees payroll. Those are just my opinions.

    • kappy32 - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:09 AM

      Hughes hasn’t shown anything to lead one to believe that he’s going to be a quality starting pitcher in this league. See my post below regarding his mirage of an 18-win 2010. Oliver Perez won 15 games in a season; wins don’t mean much in determining a pitcher’s true capability and effectiveness.

      • uyf1950 - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:02 AM

        You may be right. Although in my opinion your analysis or evaluation of Phil Hughes abilities loses credibility on 2 fronts. First, as you as you bring Oliver Perez into your comparison. Second you completely discount Hughes performance in the 1st half of the 2010 season. A first half of the season that I might add he pitched well enough to be named to the All Star Team, and through his first 13 starts that year had an ERA of 3.17. You talk about the run support he got from the Yankees in 2010. Isn’t that comment disingenuous? When you look at his entire 2010 season in approximately 50% of his total starts he pitched at least 6 innings giving up no more then 3 runs in many cases less. All quality starts based on major league standards. So there was and is something there.
        Is he going to be another Doc Halliday? I don’t think any Yankee fan or otherwise is claiming he will be. But for god sakes he just turned 25 and he has basically just 1 full year/season of starting at the Major League level under his belt. As my initial post indicated the outing yesterday was a good step in Hughes’s journey back to respectability, not the final step. And BTW, I’m expecting/hoping that with that improvement Hughes will be a #3 starter in the Yankees rotation (not the ace or even a #2). If he can get his ERA to where in the future it’s down to 3.60 to 3.80 +/-, in my opinion that’s a heck of a #3 starter. Of course that’s just my opinion.

  13. kast2l - Jul 17, 2011 at 11:29 PM

    I don’t know much about the yankee farm system but i think i read some where before 70% of the top 100 prospects don’t actually make it and this is the yankees we are talking about. If they believed in montero in my opinion they wouldn’t have gotten Russell Martin. I say yankees might as well offer them up because they are always a win now franchise and Colon and Garcia won’t cut it in the post season. They NEED ubaldo to make a run to the world series. Plus when a pitcher is finally available via FA they will go get them anyway so why hold onto prospects they won’t use? Idk, if im the yanks I do whatever it takes to get him if i want to have a chance against Texas or Boston.

  14. bigharold - Jul 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM

    I can see the Yankees giving up one of the “Bees”, Montero and other prospects. I don’t see the logic of giving up Nova. He’s proved that he can pitch in the AL East.

    One has to wonder why a team that has a young inexpensive pitcher that is under their control for the next two years would be willing to trade him now or at all? Sure, it looks like they’re out of it this year but what about next? Unless they’ve reason to suspect his future production why trade him now? In all likelihood he’d be just a valuable next year too.

    Regardless, one of the Bees, Montero and one or two others. If that can’t get it done then move on. No point in emptying the farm system, including giving another young pitcher that has already proven he can survive in the AL East for one pitcher.

  15. bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 12:27 AM

    Personally, as a Red So fan . . . I hope the Yankees get Jimenez and deplete their farm system in the process.

  16. pisano - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:15 AM

    This deal won’t happen, the Rockies are asking too much for Jimenez. The Yankees should be looking for a lefty starter and lefty reliever and a decent DH ( get rid of Posada and Jones ) say Beltran and they’ll be on level ground with anyone.

  17. kappy32 - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:04 AM

    I love when fans are so certain that a “prospect” is going to become an all-star. What do any of us really know about guys that we rarely ever see in person and are lucky to see on TV once or twice per year on YES in a Paw-Sox v. Scranton game on a Yankee Monday off? Prospects are meant to be traded for big names in big markets. Relying on an unproven commodity is never a safe practice and when you have the resources to go and get a proven, stable commodity, you need to do it. Yankee fans, do you remember Brien Taylor? He was supposed to be the next Doc Gooden & was a can’t miss prospect. Taylor, now 34 years old, lives with his parents in Ralleigh, NC and works for UPS. The deal in which they Yankees acquired A-Rod from the Rangers involved a player to be named later. When it came time for the Rangers to pick that player, the Yankees wanted them to select Robinson Cano instead of Joaquin Arias, believing Arias was going to the better player. How comparable are their careers today? The only thing that is for sure is hard data and tendencies. One consistent tendency is that fans tend to rate their team’s prospects higher than what they really are because of the always puzzling fascination with “home-grown talent.” Over the past five years, the Yankees have been ranked no lower than 12th by Baseball America in their yearly farm system rankings. That’s pretty damn good and shows consistency. Nevertheless, let’s look to see which “prospects” over the past 5 years have actually became “stars.”

    1. Robinson Cano – I love Cano. As a Met fan, he is the type of player I wish my team could produce. He’s got one of the best swings in the game and he is above average in the field. There’s a good chance that he becomes an all-time great & shatters many Yankee records.

    2. Phil Hughes – This guy was “can’t miss” and was destined to be a top-of-the-rotation guy. He’s at a pivotal point in his career right now. The Yankees nursed this guy along the way through the minors and he’s just not turning the corner. I know Yankee fans are going to say he won 18 games last year, but look behind the numbers. Phil Hughes won 18 games, but he did it with a 4.20 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP. More importantly, he lead the league in run support per start at 9.60 runs/game. The next closest AL pitcher was Brett Cecil with 7.87 runs/game. Each day Hughes took the mound in 2010, he was spotted a 10-0 lead. With that type of advantage, I find it more astonishing that he managed to lose 8 games than I find it impressive that he won 18. Another stat that shows Hughes’ win total from last year was highly inflated was his quality start percentage. Hughes started 29 games last season and produced a quality start only 52% of the time. To put that into perspective, Mike Pelfrey (61%); Barry Zito (58%); and Jake Westbrook (55%) were all better. Using a 150 inning minimum, only 2 other pitchers were worse than Hughes last year in QS%. Hughes is turning into a bottom of the rotation guy whose capabilities were severely overstated.

    3. Brett Gardner – Decent player, one-dimensional with his speed. He’s the type of player that is needed on a high payroll, big market club. When you spend nearly $200 million on players, you need that league minimum, arbitration eligible guy because not everyone can make 8 figures. His contact is too inconsistent to become an everyday leadoff guy. A good player, a player I like, but not a star.

    4. Joba Chamberlain – After coming up in 2007 & dominating for a year and a half, he has never been the same. His ERA nearly doubled in 2009 & 2010 from where it was in 2008. He was once primed to be Mo’s replacement & before his injury, he wasn’t even given a consistent spot in the bullpen. The Yankee brass and coaches are partly to blame for switching him to a starter in 2009, but he was a starter his whole life, there shouldn’t have been much of a change. He went from THE prospect to just another bullpen guy who is now out, having TJ surgery. This has been common for young relief pitchers for a while now. Very few come in as just another arm in the ‘pen and maintain a high level of play. Mo and K-Rod are the only guys I can remember that started as set-up men and continued to dominate into a closer role.

    5. Dave Robertson – He’s having a good year this season as the set-up man, but see Chamberlain above. His career will be defined by whether he can make adjustments on the mound to the adjustments batters will be making at the plate to him and whether he can stay one step ahead.

    6. Ramiro Pena – He’s been given a few shots now and hasn’t done anything to show he belongs. He’s young, but each time he comes up he looks over-matched at the plate. He’s the Yankees’ version of Ruben Tejada and could very well wind up being one of those AAAA players; good at AAA, but over-matched in the bigs.

    7. Eduardo Nunez – This guy is supposed to be Jeter’s replacement and he’s another that looks over-matched. He’s been highly touted for a couple years now, especially on the defensive side, and he hasn’t shown anything promising. What he has shown was that his defense was highly overrated and that he has a hard time handling even common grounders. He’s still young, so it’s unfair to pass judgment just yet, however when a prospect is going to make it, he normally shows at least some glimpse of his talent once he makes it to the bigs.

    8. Ivan Nova – Decent pitcher, better than Hughes and has more upside right now. Nevertheless, he was a Rule 5 pick and was already released by a big league team. He is this year’s version of Phil Hughes. Looking at his W-L record and you would think that he is a good pitcher. I mean, hell, he won 9 games before he was sent down to AAA, and had he stayed, he could have won 10-11 games before the ASB. Aside from the 9 wins to only 4 losses, his stats are not good at all. His ERA is a high 4.12, his WHIP is 1.47, he’s only struck out 51 in almost 100 innings, and his K:BB ratio is a meager 51:37. More importantly, he is second in baseball in run support per game at 9.03/game. Whether he comes back this year or next, he’s in for a Hughes-like rude awakening and probably a DL stint with “dead arm.” Another 4th or 5th starter on a team that is only pumping out 4th or 5th starters.

    For those of you who read this, I appreciate it. I don’t mean to pick on the Yankees, but they are the subject of the Jimenez trade rumors. Every team in baseball is guilty of overrating their “prospects.” It’s a success if one out of every seven highly touted prospects in a system realize their potential and become a star. Yankee fans love Betances, Banuelos and Montero, and if they meet their expectations, then they will be great players. However, if you look above at the listed players, out of the 8 players the Yankees’ highly regarded farm system has produced over the past five years, only one, Cano, is an actual star. Now, if you’re the Yankees, you have the chance to land a young, proven, ace without losing any intricate pieces to the current roster. Without another stud pitcher, the Yankees will not win the WS this season. Aside from Cano, I would trade any 3 of those above-listed players for a proven star. I would even consider trading Cano straight up for Jimenez right now, but that’s not what the Rockies are asking for. The Rockies are asking the Yankees to part with 3 of their better prospects in return for a star; 3 more unproven players that the Yankees hope will be good. It is an almost certainty that not all 3 of them will meet their prospect expectations. There’s a good chance that one of them will become a star, but an even better chance that none of them reaches their full potential, ultimately becoming average big leaguers at best. Even if Banuelos becomes a stud pitcher, so what? Look at the Sox deal for Beckett. They traded Hanley to the Marlins for Beckett and Hanley has become a star. However, if the Sox never got Beckett, they wouldn’t have won the WS in 2007. Just like now, if the Yankees don’t snag a top starter, they do not stand a chance in 2011. Pipe-dreaming Yankee fans need to wake up if they think they’re getting Jimenez for Montero. Montero is probably the one of the three most likely to never amount to anything. He’s never put up outstanding numbers in the minors and his status as a top prospect is based solely off of potential that he has not met yet and the idea that he’s going get physically larger. That’s a lot of guessing; too much guessing to land a top pitcher. If I was a Yankee fan, I’d be willing to personally drive Montero, Betances and Banuelos to Colorado if it meant landing Jimenez. Prospects are meant to be traded and if the past is any indication, the Yanks should jump on this deal and let the Rockies worry if these guys are a reasonable return for a top-10 pitcher.

    • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:41 AM

      I’d say some of what you said is dead on, but some of it is way off too.

      One thing that sticks out is the Beckett/Lowell for Hanley, Anibal Sanchez & two scrubs swap (btw, there is a perfect o two highly touted Red Sox prospects becoming very good major leaguers). We cannot say that the Red Sox would NOT have won the World Series in 2007. Many other things could have happened in the 2005 or 2006 off-seasons and during the season that led to the same result. And even if they didn’t win the 2007 WS, Hanley and Sanchez may have helped them win in 2006 or 2008. Who knows.

      One thing we do know, with some degree of certainty, is that Theo Epstein would likely have NEVER made that trade for Beckett. Remember that was Jed Hoyer, barely out of diapers with guidance by

      Beckett STUNK in 2006, while Mike Lowell finally got noticed by the rest of baseball after being left for dead because of one bad season in Florida. Meanwhile HanRam won the ROY and Anibal went 10-3 with a 2.83 ERA and no-hitter. Considering how many SS’s the Red Sox have gone through since the departure of Nomar, I’m not sure Theo has forgiven the interim front office of 2005 for that bungle. In fact, save for this season SO FAR, Beckett hasn’t been that stud #1 ace for an entire season.

      I guess what I’m saying is – teams invest los o money in the top prospects for a reason – because they aren’t like the other prospects. Some times mistakes are made and is a great AAAA player but really could never hit a curveball; or never could throw a curve for strikes with any consistency, or his arm goes dead, blah blah.

      But mostly you are right about fans getting caught up in the hype of their own home grown talent, and not understanding who the real gems are. Very few prospects of Banuelos or Montero';s caliber are going to end up being a HOF’er – yet thats what fans tend to believe and expect. But Banu and Monty are more than likely, barring any significant injury, All-Star talents.

      And you don’t need a HOF player on your team to win a World Series, but you most certainly need a couple, if not several, All Star caliber players.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 18, 2011 at 10:29 AM

      So much to respond to, so here goes:

      Yankee fans, do you remember Brien Taylor? He was supposed to be the next Doc Gooden & was a can’t miss prospect

      Good way to start out. Do you remember what happened to Brien Taylor? Do you remember the bar fight he got into defending his family member and wrecked his shoulder? Everyone remembers the failure and no one remembers why. Hope this doesn’t cloud your judgement with the rest of your post. Oh wait…

      Phil Hughes – This guy was “can’t miss” and was destined to be a top-of-the-rotation guy. He’s at a pivotal point in his career right now. The Yankees nursed this guy along the way through the minors and he’s just not turning the corner. I know Yankee fans are going to say he won 18 games last year, but look behind the numbers

      He’s 25, coming off an injury. He’s not a 34 year old or 38 year old. He still has plenty of years left. Also I love how you want to look at the numbers, but the only pitching one you bring up is ERA. Citing wins as a determining stat for a pitcher, well done!

      3. Brett Gardner – Decent player, one-dimensional with his speed.

      Just curious what that one dimension is? Phenomenal defense? Great speed? Good OBP?

      5. Dave Robertson – He’s having a good year this season as the set-up man, but see Chamberlain above. His career will be defined by whether he can make adjustments on the mound to the adjustments batters will be making at the plate to him and whether he can stay one step ahead.

      171 major league innings in relief, almost a 12K/9 and a career 3.05 FIP. I think he’s figured it out.

      Pena and Nunez aren’t prospects. They are all glove no hit AAA players. No idea why they are brought up. Nova is in no way better than Hughes. He can’t strike anyone out and the wins, as you brought up, are often due to immense run support.

      out of the 8 players the Yankees’ highly regarded farm system has produced over the past five years, only one, Cano, is an actual star

      And you conveniently leave out all the players that the Yanks have traded away as if they shouldn’t get credit for those. Austin Jackson had a good rookie year with Det (strikes out way too much and has 0 power, but plays a good defense). Arodys Vizcaino is ranked ahead of Teheran in the Braves system by Keith Law.

      Also, stop lumping Pena/Nunez in with the farm system. They are fillers. You might as well bring up Cervelli with the hatchet job.

      The Yanks have a good farm system but most of their players outside of Montero are a year+ away.

    • bigharold - Jul 18, 2011 at 12:10 PM

      “If I was a Yankee fan,…”

      But you’re not and it clearly is shading your analysis.

      “Now, if you’re the Yankees, you have the chance to land a young, proven, ace …”

      That’s where your point completely loses steam, .. Jimenez IS NOT an ace. He is a good pitcher but not a #1 or #2 starter anywhere but on the Rockies. He’s certainly not one worthy of emptying the farm system for and not likely the piece that puts the Yankees over the top this year or any other. You deride Hughes success last year as if it was more luck than ability but you ignore that without last season Jimenez is about a .500 pitcher with about a 4.00 era, .. AND that’s in the relatively weak NL West. And, he’s not even a .500 pitcher this year.

      The hard facts when it comes to Jimenez versus Hughes is that they are essentially the same pitcher in terms of ability and upside with the difference being that Hughes is 2 years younger and cheaper, (not that it cost matters all that much to the Yankees). And, just as importantly, Hughes has shown he can have success in the AL East, the media intense NY market and the WS. Come back in two years and compare Hughes to Jimenez and then let’s see where each is in his career.

      No doubt that I would trade one of the “Bees”, Montero and a couple of other lower prospects for Jimenez but I wouldn’t trade very ML ready or near ready prospect for a # 3 or #4 starter which is likely what he’d be with the Yankees having to face the tougher AL East line ups more often.

      • slkdjalskdhg - Jul 19, 2011 at 6:02 AM

        You have no clue what you are talking about. Please before you comment again go watch Jimenez pitch because you are talking out your a$$. When Jimenez is on he’s one of the best pitchers in the Majors hands down, he proved that last season. The second half of the season was not his fault he still had good numbers but his team mailed it in, this year he struggled with injuries but has found his way just look at the numbers over his last 8 starts and you’ll see.

        Jimenez is worth the farm and if the Rockies trade him for anything less they are morons. Hell, they’d be retarded for trading him at all he’s a great pitcher and he does it all in Coors field. Your comment about him being #3 or #4 is completely laughable, this guy has filthy stuff and on his best day can easily rival Sabathia and I will not back off of those comments because they are true all you have to do is watch him.

        If the Yankees were honestly able to land him and they didn’t they’d be complete morons and I hope they are because I don’t want to see a great arm like him fall into the darkside.

      • shawnuel - Jul 24, 2011 at 6:40 PM

        Right, slkdjalskdhg. Jimenez is a great #2 on ANY team. A solid #1. Perhaps not a “stud” ace type of guy (Halladay, Lee, Felix, Lincecum) but serviceable as a TOR starter, that’s for sure. And think what his numbers would be, pitching half his games in a Petco, Safeco or in Detroit. Ballpark factors are NOT imaginary.

    • tinker61 - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:21 PM

      I can readily understand why you’re a Mets fan. Your knowledge of Yankees Players/prospects in limited to say the least. Your largest GAFF is your rating of Phillip Hughes and comparison to Nova. Spotting Hughes a 10 run lead every outing is Asinine to say the least. Turning into a bottom of the rotation guy is just as Asinine. You obviously have paid no attention to scouting reports. Just another wannabe with limited knowledge or the subjects you’ve addressed.

  18. polegojim - Jul 18, 2011 at 9:25 AM

    The sad Rockies organization prepares to move yet another excellent talent due to front office and coaching inability to put a comlete team together. An a pitcher no less.

    Mark my words on this press conference statement from Mr. Mediocrity himself – Dan O’Dowd.
    “We’re very excited about this trade for the Rockies and our fans. We wish Ubaldo the very best, but this trade puts the Rockies organization in an excellent position to build for the future in a number of different areas.”

    The FUTURE…Mr. O’Dowd, will you be meaning AGAIN or STILL? Yadayadayadayadayada – crap, crap and more crap. He has that memorized and bronzed for annual use. I actually heard the man say…on the radio in Colorado… ‘Rockies baseball really isn’t as much about winning as it is about entertainment…’ Yes Dan, Colorado fans can most definitely see it – you evidently live this concept…and have breathed it into every facet of the organization.

    Rockies fans deserve better than a $6 hot dog and $5 beer when sitting in the stands. Maybe they should be able to enjoy some…I don’t know…um, winning baseball??? Ya think?

    Mr. O’Dowd’s how-to book will be released this fall: “How To Maintain a Perfect Record of Non-Performance – And Your Job”. Secret – just keep firing Managers and hope no one notices.

    Welcome to the perennial and perpetual rebuilding project called the Colorado Rockies.
    Ineptitude at it’s finest can be found at Coors Field.

    • dan1111 - Jul 18, 2011 at 11:12 AM

      The Rockies have made the playoffs twice in the last four seasons, including a trip to the World Series. They have done this with an average-to-low payroll. Doesn’t Mr. O’Dowd deserve a little bit more credit?

      • polegojim - Jul 19, 2011 at 12:37 AM

        Dan111 – No. So you think its good baseball management to regularly piss away talent like Jimenez, Holiday, and EY so easily? The overall Rockies results have been dismal under O’Dowd.

        When will Rockies fans like you stop being satisfied with kissing your sister and expect….no…DEMAND more than summer entertainment from this org? They made it to the playoffs…please…

        However, I most definitely agree with you – the Rockies ‘made a trip’ to the World Series… they didn’t show up, nor even remotely compete in the World Series but I’m sure they enjoyed the trip. It was painful for all of baseball and everybody said so.

        I’m not a Rockies hater; I loathe the blind acceptance of and relegation to mediocrity, and those who perfect it.

      • bigleagues - Jul 19, 2011 at 2:29 AM

        Denver’s market is a little smaller than Baltimore’s and a little bigger than Pittsburgh.

        The Rockies payroll is almost exactly as much as the Orioles and twice as much as the Pirates.

        Given that perspective, I’d say that the Rockies and O’Dowd’s performance are in no way mediocre.

        You want subpar and mediocre performance from an organization than look no further than the Cubs and Astros – in the 3rd and 6th largest markets respectively.

        The Astros level of sucktitude and low payroll really is unacceptable – but they have an amazing ballpark.

    • slkdjalskdhg - Jul 19, 2011 at 6:04 AM

      Agreed O’Dowd sucks, if he trades Jimenez he better be walking out the door behind him with his bags packed.

  19. bigharold - Jul 18, 2011 at 12:19 PM

    “Rockies fans deserve better than a $6 hot dog and $5 beer when sitting in the stands”

    $5 BEER? Really, .. I’m 50ish and I can’t remember $5 beer at a NY sports venue, certainly Yankee Stadium. I’m sure that was the price at one time but it’s like T-Rex, you have to search for fossil evcidence, it’s the stuff of myth and legends, .. like Stonehenge.

    • polegojim - Jul 19, 2011 at 12:40 AM

      The Rockies have a great stadium and venue, some good bargains and good hot dogs.

      Other than my love for the game in general, those are my main reason for attending Rockies games. That’s what bothers me so intensly.

  20. bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 1:24 PM

    And there have been the typical counter-developments to the non-existent ‘trade talks’ for Ubaldo.

    So Heyman, predictably, has a report today that conflicts with much discussed report yesterday. He states:

    says person w/ ties to rox: “montero will not be the centerpiece of (ubaldo) deal.” theyll take him but not at best piece

    And Bluster Phoney completely counters Heyman’s story saying no names whatsoever have been exchanged:

    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/1146/ubaldo-jimenez

    This, like most trade rumor reports this time of year, is all a lot of hot air.

  21. yankee7fan - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:09 PM

    Jiminez started to fade at All Star break last year. For a reasonable price he is worth the gamble

    The Yanks have some decent pitchers in the minors, but only one right now is given a chance of being a star

    Jiminez, if he rebounds would give the Yankees a formidable staff for the next few years :CC, Hughes, Jiminez, AJ and either Bantances or Benuelos

    That stacks pretty good against the Phillies big 4

    • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:32 PM

      Spoken like a true Yankees fan.

      But I will say this . . . I don’t think Phillies Phans can call it a Big Four anymore. Oswalt actually has to pitch in a game or two every now and then to be included in that group.

      BTW – let’s match CC up with Doc. Doc still has the edge there.

      Who matches up with Cliff Lee? Hughes? Not even close.

      Jimenez matches up with Hamels. Draw, with a slight edge possibly going to Hamels for a better overall season to date.

      Burnett matches up with Blanton when he comes back (who’d be the 5th Starter in the Phil’s rotation).

      And then there is still Roy Oswalt left over. What, Ivan Nova?

      Vance Worley and Kyle Kendrick in a pinch.

      Here is where it would be a decent match-up on paper:

      Now, having said all that – Halladay will be 35 next year and even the best hit their wall at that age – and even if they delay hitting it by one year – its coming real soon.

      And CC is FAT and tall – and that never works out in the end. Just ask Sid Fernandez who had incredible stuff but was done in his early 30’s. CC has already beaten the odds to be pitching at the level he does – but it will catch up with him and it won’t be pretty when it does.

      Here’s a good on paper comparison if the Yankees were to get Jimenez.

      CC/Lester
      Jimenez/Beckett
      Hughes/Buchholz
      Burnett/Lackey

      However on the outside chance that somehow the Sox were sign Ubaldo – say sayanara to the Yankees for a couple of years while those young arms develop.

    • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 2:32 PM

      Spoken like a true Yankees fan.

      But I will say this . . . I don’t think Phillies Phans can call it a Big Four anymore. Oswalt actually has to pitch in a game or two every now and then to be included in that group.

      BTW – let’s match CC up with Doc. Doc still has the edge there.

      Who matches up with Cliff Lee? Hughes? Not even close.

      Jimenez matches up with Hamels. Draw, with a slight edge possibly going to Hamels for a better overall season to date.

      Burnett matches up with Blanton when he comes back (who’d be the 5th Starter in the Phil’s rotation).

      And then there is still Roy Oswalt left over. What, Ivan Nova?

      Vance Worley and Kyle Kendrick in a pinch.

      Here is where it would be a decent match-up on paper:

      Now, having said all that – Halladay will be 35 next year and even the best hit their wall at that age – and even if they delay hitting it by one year – its coming real soon.

      And CC is FAT and tall – and that never works out in the end. Just ask Sid Fernandez who had incredible stuff but was done in his early 30’s. CC has already beaten the odds to be pitching at the level he does – but it will catch up with him and it won’t be pretty when it does.

      Here’s a good on paper comparison if the Yankees were to get Jimenez.

      CC/Lester
      Jimenez/Beckett
      Hughes/Buchholz
      Burnett/Lackey

      However on the outside chance that somehow the Sox were snag Ubaldo – say sayanara to the Yankees for a couple of years while those young arms develop.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 18, 2011 at 6:51 PM

        And CC is FAT and tall – and that never works out in the end. Just ask Sid Fernandez who had incredible stuff but was done in his early 30′s. CC has already beaten the odds to be pitching at the level he does – but it will catch up with him and it won’t be pretty when it does.

        Come on, Sid Fernandez was 6’1 according to b-ref.com. That’s not a valid comp to CC. Also, CC lowest IP total in his career is 180 from his rookie year. Sid Fernandez pitched for 15 years and broke that number 4 times (and once by only 6 IP). There’s 0 comparison between the two.

      • bigleagues - Jul 18, 2011 at 8:03 PM

        Is it a perfect comparison? No. But the most important join on any pitcher is his knees. If those go, so does the rest – and at that size and weight, forgive me if I don’t see him pitching at a high level to much into his 30’s.

      • slkdjalskdhg - Jul 19, 2011 at 6:09 AM

        Match up the seasons sure and Hamels may have the edge, but get Jimenez healthy and Hamels doesn’t have stuff even close to Jimenez.

    • shawnuel - Jul 24, 2011 at 6:50 PM

      If you really are a big Yankee fan, you may want to consider coming within 3 miles of spelling their best prospect’s names correctly, as well as the pitcher they may be trading for.

Leave Comment

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!

Featured video

Can Angels recoup loss of Richards?
Top 10 MLB Player Searches
  1. R. Castillo (4810)
  2. M. Cuddyer (2510)
  3. K. Bryant (2310)
  4. W. Myers (1977)
  5. G. Richards (1974)
  1. H. Ramirez (1914)
  2. D. Ortiz (1890)
  3. A. Cashner (1814)
  4. J. Hamilton (1796)
  5. A. McCutchen (1768)