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Settling the score: Friday’s results

Jul 23, 2011, 8:23 AM EDT

Brendan Ryan, Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak

Let’s dwell on the negative for a second, shall we? The Mariners’ losing streak reached 13 games last night with a 7-4 loss to the Red Sox. Felix Hernandez gave up two runs over the first six innings, but the Red Sox put up a five-spot in the seventh to put the game out of reach. Sudden slugger Jacoby Ellsbury launched his 16th home run of the season (and his seventh this month) in the victory while John Lackey tossed seven innings of one-run ball for his third straight win.

The Mariners are now one loss away from tying their franchise record, previously set in September of 1992. It doesn’t get any easier tonight when they send rookie right-hander Blake Beavan to the hill against Josh Beckett.

Your Friday box scores:

Mariners 4, Red Sox 7

Astros 2, Cubs 4

Angels 6, Orioles 1

Cardinals 6, Pirates 4

Athletics 7, Yankees 17

White Sox 3, Indians 0

Padres 1, Phillies 3

Braves 6, Reds 4

Mets 7, Marlins 6

Blue Jays 2, Rangers 12

Rockies 8, Diamondbacks 4

Rays 4, Royals 10

Tigers 8, Twins 2

Nationals 7, Dodgers 2

Brewers 4, Giants 2

  1. JBerardi - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:33 AM

    Let’s dwell on the negative for a second, shall we? The Mariners’ losing streak reached 13 games last night with a 7-4 loss to the Red Sox.

    Can we just save some time and credit the Mariners with a 15 game losing streak right now?

    • FC - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:43 AM

      Maybe we should demote the Mariners to AAA 😀. There’s something to be said about most European Soccer leagues having tiered play.

      • Old Gator - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:47 AM

        Well, if we’re not going to have a requirement that revenue sharing be spent on team improvement instead of owner englutment, a tiered system sounds like a great alternative. I just hate to apply macros from backandforthandbackandforthandbackandforthball to MLB for fear that whatever it is that makes it so interminably boring will rub off on baseball.

      • deathmonkey41 - Jul 23, 2011 at 12:39 PM

        Eff the Mariners. It’s bad karma for screwing over the Yankees with the Cliff Lee trade.

    • yankeesfanlen - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:47 AM

      Make that 18 and I’m all in!

      • frankvzappa - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:05 AM

        i agree that it looks like 18 at the least, but thumbs down anyway for being a yankee fan

      • Ari Collins - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM

        At least you were honest, Frank.

        The fact is, despite how bad the Mariners have been, they’re pretty unlikely to lose 5 more. I guarantee they’ll win at least one game in this Sox/Yanks road trip. Pineda/Wakefield Sunday and Hernandez/Hughes on Wednesday are both good chances. But baseball’s a crazy sport, and a win tonight against Beckett is entirely possible. (Though obviously I’m rooting against that.)

  2. Old Gator - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:39 AM

    Well, that explains why Marinersnate is so touchy this morning. Cheer up: I think Beantown West is now twinned with Macondo. Between us, we’re investigating negative space like the second coming of Benoit Mandelbrot.

    The Feesh got too close to the strange attractor, apparently without wearing their hazmat uniforms, a few days ago and are paying for it now. They should have known better when it began to glow, pulse and humm like that. So now they’re on a skid of four to drop them six games below the attractor once again. The oft-blessed Mujica, having just the day before been designated by the Curmudgeonly Undead heir to the closer’s role as rumors of a Leo Nunez Feesh fry fly, can’t keep the Mutts down on the farm and gets tagged with a loss.

    The Feesh just can’t play in the rain. Time to rename them the Mudskippers.

  3. natstowngreg - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:45 AM

    John Lannan hit a home run. I saw it in real time on my TV, but it’s stiill hard to wrap my brain around the concept.

    • Old Gator - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:49 AM

      Maybe it was just a cloud of methane or a renegade weather sond, like them UFOs.

      • natstowngreg - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:58 AM

        Well, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but am open to alternative explanations for this strange phenomenon.

  4. kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:50 AM

    MLB venues were a veritable brothel full of RBI whores last evening. Nelly Cruz bagging 8 of them for good measure.

  5. yankeesfanlen - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:04 AM

    Against all needling, cajoling, and threats that Joe G. could invoke, Seish and Tex insistently and deliberately disobeyed policy and hit multi-run homers. We shall have to discuss this with Mrs. O’Hara.
    Today the Universe goes for the third time to try to go 20 games over the bubbly separator, and there’s a very good chance that this homestand, with a chaser of Ozzie on the road, will get the juices flowing to take our second half battles with Boston for the big prize.
    Oh, for all I care, Phil Hughes can allow anything up to 16 runs when we score 17.

    • proudlycanadian - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:17 AM

      When Chavez comes off the DL, will Posada get the pink slip?

      • uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:21 AM

        One can only hope. But if there is a god in heaven, I hope so.

      • hittfamily - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:30 AM

        Any chance they are only keeping him because they know the Rays desperately need a catcher, even a part time one.

      • deathmonkey41 - Jul 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM

        Rays don’t want Posada. He’s a terrible catcher who has become a below average hitter…for 18 mil.

      • hittfamily - Jul 23, 2011 at 1:21 PM

        Is he better than .169 Kelly Shoppach? Because that’s what they get to pencil into the 9 hole.

        18 million will be owed to him by the Yanks. It is of no concern to the Rays. He will make 2 salries if he is released. What the Yanks owe him, and what the Rays pay him for the next 2 months. Same thing happened with Burrel last year. Rays had to pay him his 12 million salary, and the Giants paid him whatever they agreed to with him.

    • kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:25 AM

      Hughes was pretty disappointing. Got given a ton of runs and couldn’t make it through 5. Today’s Harden-Burnett game should be really interesting, as I have a strange theory about 2 erratic inconsistent pitchers facing one another. My money is on a ton of guys getting struck out and good pitching…..oooooor a complete and utter shambles with rotten produce being flung at A.J. One or the other.

    • Old Gator - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:46 AM

      When Chavez comes off the DL, he’ll go right back to Caracas and get back to work on inflating the price of gas. That’s what he does.

      Oh…that Chavez…sorry, wouldn’t want to bring politics to a baseball>/i> blog, would I?

      And UYF, if there is a benign white male deity in heaven, he still spells his name with an uppercase “G.”

  6. uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:18 AM

    Ladies and Gentlemen, if I may be allowed to para-phase a quote from Mark Twain that I think is appropriate about what some people/fans maybe thinking about Phil Hughes: “The Rumors of Phil’s death are being Greatly Exaggerated.” Give the guy a chance he may wind up surprising everyone.

  7. kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:41 AM

    I’ve been wanting to know this for quite some time actually…..What dictates the side/part of the rubber the pitcher stands on???
    A side-arm lefty is facing a LH hitter, you would think the pitcher would stand on the extreme LHS of the rubber to increase the angle or accentuate the angle, but it’s not always the case. They don’t seem to change positions either, which I find odd, given that it will change the hitters sight(picking the ball up), angle of the pitch and many other factors. Is it just habit, or where they feel comfortable???? Nothing technical is EVER mentioned on the moronic broadcasts, so I’m kind of left wondering.

    • hittfamily - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:39 AM

      As far as why lefties with dont always throw off the left side, and righties off the right, I dont know. I was always taught to take every advantage as possible to get an angle on the batter. Why throw from 90 degrees when you can throw from from 91. I notice this with Latin players mostly, and suspect it has something to do with poor coaching early on.

      They dont change sides because there is a hole where they land. Landing on the side of the hole, or catching a cleat, results in those bloopers you see where the pitcher falls down. Dig your hole, take your warm up pitches, and stick to it.

      • kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:50 AM

        I appreciate that. Thanks.

    • spudchukar - Jul 23, 2011 at 12:48 PM

      Kiwi, some right-handed pitchers find it more advantageous to throw from the opposite side of the rubber than the hitter hits in order to get inside more easily, especially if they have trouble with hitters from that side, and of course vice versa. Most pitching coaches believe that changing positions on the rubber throughout the game will mess with release points, and would be too much of a telegraph as to the pitcher’s intent.

      As Hitt indicated the hole created in front of the rubber is dug out so a pitcher can get leverage and push off of it. Also some sinkerball pitchers prefer the opposite side of the rubber in order to allow their pitches to move down and in or over the outside corner.

      That said, I still believe accomplished hurlers should take advantage of the angles more. No reason to not dig out the entire front part of the rubber either, and as for telegraphing, you still have pitch choices which could be confusing to the hitter. Young guys probably shouldn’t mess with it due to screwing up their release points, but crafty veterans should probably heed your advise at times.

      • kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 6:21 PM

        very interesting, thanks.

  8. uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:53 AM

    I know every time I mention King Felix on these boards some fan maybe several fans take out my moniker and set fire to it. But has anyone begun to at least think that King Felix isn’t the “king” of the mountain any longer. And with each passing game his future value to the Mariners diminishes. Let’s consider:
    1) He pitches in a pitchers ball park
    2) He will soon be making $20M per season +/-
    3) His numbers this year while still obviously are good, are not “King Felix” like.
    4) In 22 starts he has failed to make it through and in many cases to the 7th inning 6 times
    5) In 7 starts he has allowed at least 4 earned runs and in at least 4 of those he has allowed 5 or more earned runs.
    6) All or mostly all of his numbers are up this year over previous years.

    Now I’m certainly not saying he should be lumped in with all the “average” pitchers in the league. All I am saying is that he may not be the “king” of the mountain any longer and that along with his salary in the coming years would seem to effect his future value to the Mariners in the open market. The Mariners have not improved are not improving and in all likelihood unless they get some offense won’t improve. Great pitching is nice but a competitive team comprised of “good” pitching and “good” offense (hitting) I think would be much more desirable. That’s just my opinion.

    • kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:11 AM

      I think it starts with him being overweight and looking a bit soft around the edges. Possibly thinking he can turn up and be the same guy with the magic arm without putting in the hard work before the season? Hell I don’t know for sure, it’s 1am and I’m slightly drunk so I’m just throwing it out there. All I know is, is that he’s not in the best possible shape he could be in. Not in the BSOHL pageant.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM

      1. This is actually his best year if you look at his underlying performance. He was just very lucky with balls on play the last two years. He’s still the same pitcher he’s always been, and he’s on-pace for another 6-win season.

      2. He may be about to get paid $20M, but he’s worth at least $30M. He’s still underpaid, and so you’d have to get $10M a year in surplus value to actually help the team, in terms of getting the most out of your payroll. Which has to be a high priority for the Mariners.

      3. He’s also one of the few reasons to see the Ms. So it makes sense for the team and it makes sense for the ticket sales to keep him.

      • uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:37 AM

        Ari, I thought you were one of those “enlightened” fans who placed little value on wins. Now here you are saying he’s “on-pace” of all things for 6 more wins. Now you of all people on this board should have thought twice before making that comment. Besides I’m not sure how he could be “on pace” for 6 more wins when he has only won 8 games through 99 games of a 162 game schedule. Not to split hairs and I’m not a big fan of the “on track” theory but if we were to go go with the “on-track theory it’s more likely it’s just 5 more wins. BTW, I learned a long time ago that a person is only worth what someone is willing to pay them. So unless someone is willing to pay “King” Felix $30M per he ain’t worth it.

      • Ari Collins - Jul 23, 2011 at 11:25 AM

        Wins are one thing. The pitcher win stat is bullshit. John Lackey has a better pitcher win percentage than Felix.

        But actual wins, as measured by WAR, are valuable.

        And if Felix were a FA, yes, he could probably get $30M. He’s 25 and one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:37 AM

      If it is this bad, why would you want him then? 😉

      • uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:50 AM

        Chris, there you go again. Putting your spin on my comments. Mine is a general observation. That in my opinion the Mariners would be better off getting value for him that can improve the team overall. Anyone that thinks improving the teams performance overall at the expense of trading 1 player is a mistake. Is misguided.
        Besides, most fans on this site don’t think the Yankees can put together a package good enough to entice the Mariners to trade Felix. If that is indeed the case then why are so many here so disturbed when I even suggest the possibility that trading Felix could improve the Mariners and why do they jump to conclusions and almost immediately assume I am inferring that he be traded to the Yankees. In almost every case where I have discussed Felix I have gone out of my way to try and keep the Yankees out of the equation and only point out the merits of trading him and getting maximum value.

    • kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:46 AM

      I was just about to write- If A.J Burnett makes 16odd, then 20M for Felix is pretty decent! There is an awful amount of slop out there making 10M.
      I remember a guy like Jarrod bloody Washburn having a good season for the M’s 2 years ago(approx) so acquiring decent pitching stats in safeco doesn’t seem like the most difficult thing to do. Their hitting is utterly putrid and is the thing holding them back. Has been for a few years now.

      If you could get an incredible haul(and I mean INCREDIBLE) for him, geeze why not. All the G.M has to do is commit professional suicide and throw away his career if he’s wrong. Possibly even be the butt of jokes for decades to come. Any takers????

      • Ari Collins - Jul 23, 2011 at 11:30 AM

        Exactly. Felix is worth a ton (which is why everyone wants him). If a GM wanted to trade more than he was worth, I’m sure Jack Z would have to consider it. But it would take emptying a top tier farm system plus some good major league players to get it done, and no one would want to trade that much. Which is why you don’t see players with a value as high as Felix get traded. Ever.

  9. bloodydamnsox - Jul 23, 2011 at 9:58 AM

    I agree with FC – Tiered system is the way to go. Send down the bottom 3 teams to AAA & promote the top AAA teams to the MLB. The English have got that right.

    • kiwicricket - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:29 AM

      Dear Sir,

      With regards to your comments, I feel that the system currently in place is perfectly efficient at milking the cash cow that is MLB. Myself and my billionaire acquaintances’ see no need to disturb this lucrative process, and suggest you keep your insightful, intelligent suggestions within your own thoughts.

      Kind regards


      • hittfamily - Jul 23, 2011 at 2:11 PM

        Thank you for purchasing us that beautiful new stadium. It is lovely. I am sorry it came at the expense of libraries and new schools, but that is what sharing and portables are for. Please accept this little league field as a token of our gratitude.

  10. ryanmallettsbluntwrap - Jul 23, 2011 at 10:03 AM

    Phil Hughes got ROCKED again , John Lackey had his best game of the year . When the sox offense is clicking like it is now they are very hard to beat regardless of who is pitching for them . UYF , while you may be right about Felix not being as good this year as in the past , he is still not just a good , but a great pitcher , it is fun to watch him mix up his pitches the way he does , i will say last night he struggled though , sox hit into 3 inning ending DP’s in a row i believe , so the damage could have been worse . He will bounce back , no doubt.

    • uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 11:03 AM

      My friend, I don’t disagree with you about Felix. All I said and meant by the reference to “king of the mountain” was that he is no longer the best. Of course that’s just my opinion but the stats would of his and other pitchers like Verlander and Weaver would tend to bare me out. We can all disagree with who’s better then who. But what I have a problem understanding is how anyone can disagree with the argument that improving the overall performance of the team shouldn’t outweigh what one player brings to the table so to speak. That’s what I have an issue with.

      • Ari Collins - Jul 23, 2011 at 11:28 AM

        No one is disagreeing with you that improving the overall performance of the team is the most important thing. Just that Felix is improving the overall performance of the team more than anything the Mariners could reasonably get back.

  11. Jack Marshall - Jul 23, 2011 at 11:20 AM

    If the “reverse lock” theory has any validity at all, tonight’s Sox-Mariners game is a grand test. Also a test of the lesser known but equally valid “lousy hitting always beats great pitching” cliche.

  12. marinersnate - Jul 23, 2011 at 11:44 AM

    Absolutely do not want to talk about it.

    Oh, except to tell UYF that he should once more consider his moniker set aflame from the top of the Space Needle.

  13. uyf1950 - Jul 23, 2011 at 12:12 PM

    Gentlemen, then for those of you that can’t see the forest for the trees. I hope you are ready and willing to accept the continued mediocrity that has been the hallmark of the Mariners throughout most of their existence with the exception of a handful of years. That’s just my opinion.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 23, 2011 at 12:24 PM

      ’96-’03 was more than a handful.

    • marinersnate - Jul 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM

      UYF, I guess a couple more points are worth bringing up.

      You say above that you are not lobbying for the Yankees to acquire Felix, and I will take you at your word. The problem is that we all know what would happen if Felix was to become available. Who would be first in line? The Yankees would simply use their huge advantage in assets to blow any other offers out of the water. This is the player they most covet. The M’s choices are to keep Felix themselves or hand him over to the Yankees for a handful of young players who may or may not ever pan out in the bigs. Saying that this situation has nothing to do with the Yankees is incorrect. You can not really separate the two issues.

      Something else to consider. If the recent reports were correct and the Rox asking price for Ubaldo was Montero, Nova, Betances, and Banuelos, what do you think the asking price for Felix would be? It would be far more than what the Rox were asking for Ubaldo. I am not certain most Yankees fans would want to pay the price that it would take to acquire a true ace like Felix. IMHO of course.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jul 23, 2011 at 8:29 PM

        I’m guessing the mariners would want those four plus gardner and cano. And they would be pretty right in asking for that package. Worst that can happen is thy they are stuck With him.

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