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Joe Torre, Major League Baseball tell us all to embrace “the human element”

Jul 27, 2011, 4:52 PM EDT

Meals blown call

Major League Baseball just released its official statement on the blown call in last night’s Pirates-Braves game.  It’s from Joe Torre — Executive Vice President for Baseball Operations — and it’s reproduced in its entirety below.  Here’s the short version, though:

“Blahblahblah we don’t care at all if games are blown because of crappy umpiring and we’re never going to give you a good reason why.”

OK, that may be a rather loose summary of it, but really, that’s the substance.

Fine, Torre admits the mistake and notes that Jerry Meals both admitted it and feels bad about it.  Which I’m sure he does.  People screw up from time to time and Meals did too.  He should be faulted for that, but not ostracized for it (and especially not threatened for it).  The real fault here is a system that has the ability to easily correct these very human mistakes and chooses not to.

But Torre and Major League Baseball claim that people love that system, and that “most in the game recognize that the human element always will be part of baseball and instant replay can never replace all judgment calls by umpires.”

What kind of baloney is that?  Who are these deluded and easily-manipulated people? Who blithely accepts that easily-corrected bad calls will always be a part of the game and dares not question why? Torre and Bud Selig have the ability to change these rules in less time than it takes for you to say “boo,” but people — most people, if you believe Torre — believe it’s inevitable that that never happen?  What’s next, baseball? Will Oceania always be at war with Eastasia?

This is unacceptable.  These kinds of calls can and should be corrected via instant replay. Torre provides no rational reason, let alone a compelling reason why that can’t be so.  Just because we can’t obtain perfection doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t strive for improvement.

This is a cop out, pure and simple. Just ridiculous.  Here’s the statement.

Major League Baseball Executive Vice President for Baseball Operations Joe Torre issued the following statement today regarding the game-ending play in the 19th inning of last night’s game between the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Atlanta Braves at Turner Field:

“Unfortunately, it appears that the call was missed, as Jerry Meals acknowledged after the game.  Many swipe tags are not applied to the runner with solid contact, but the tag was applied and the game should have remained tied.  I have spoken with Jerry, who is a hard-working, respected umpire, and no one feels worse than him.  We know that this is not a product of a lack of effort.

“Having been the beneficiary of calls like this and having been on the other end in my experience as a player and as a manager, I have felt that this has always been a part of our game.  As a member of the Commissioner’s Special Committee for On-Field Matters, I have heard many discussions on umpiring and technology over the past two years, including both the pros and the cons of expanding replay.  However, most in the game recognize that the human element always will be part of baseball and instant replay can never replace all judgment calls by umpires. Obviously, a play like this is going to spark a lot of conversation, and we will continue to consider all viewpoints in our ongoing discussions regarding officiating in baseball.

“We expect the best from our umpires, and an umpire would tell you he expects the best of himself.  We have to continue to strive for accuracy, consistency and professionalism day in and day out.”

  1. Ari Collins - Jul 27, 2011 at 4:58 PM

    Well said.

    • evanpenn - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:53 PM

      One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen. Meals should have a full medical exam, especially an MRI. Maybe he had a small stroke, who knows. The call was so inexplicably bad, normal explanations don’t qualify.

  2. Senor Cardgage - Jul 27, 2011 at 4:59 PM

    The call on the field was that he missed the tag. There are angles where it looks like maybe he missed the tag. There’s no angle that conclusively shows a tag applied. For all the brouhaha this call has generated, if replay were instituted, and I were the replay assistant, I would not have overturned the call on the field here.

    • The Baseball Gods - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:03 PM

      When the executive Vice President for Baseball Operations and the umpire calling the game admit to the call being wrong, it seems rather childish and ignorant to keep up the whole there was no conclusive evidence bit. He was tagged out 3 feet in front of the plate, it wasn’t even close.

      • skipperxc - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:16 PM

        Still don’t see it being open and shut with my own eyes, but if they say so then they say so; can’t and won’t argue that.

      • Senor Cardgage - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:44 PM

        “It appears that the call was missed” is not a very convincing statement to me. I’m not saying the call wasn’t missed; I’m saying I did not see enough in the replay that I would have overruled the call on the field (using the current football replay standards).

      • Senor Cardgage - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM

        It’s not a very emphatic statement, rather.

      • The Baseball Gods - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:59 PM

        Senor Cardage – do you only read what you want to read? Joe Torre clearly states “Many swipe tags are not applied to the runner with solid contact, but the tag was applied and the game should have remained tied.” That sounds pretty convincing to me.

      • Senor Cardgage - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:53 PM

        I could ask you the same thing. In my very next comment, the one right above yours, I stated that “emphatic” was the word I was looking for. Sure, they’re saying the call was missed, but Torre doesn’t even come close to saying what everyone is saying online—that it was the worst call of all time and Meals’s head should be on a plate.

        Have you actually watched the replay from the low angle behind the catcher? It sure looks like he might have missed the tag. Using the football system as a guide, if there’s any chance the call might have been right, then you have to have to leave the call as it stands on the field.

    • skipperxc - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:05 PM

      I agree. Was the call blown? Probably. But this isn’t Don Denkinger or Jim Joyce, not by a long shot. The only reason people care is because the Pirates are improbably good this year and because it ended the game. Neyer was spot on.

      Doesn’t mean the spirit of this article isn’t true in its entirety though. The sooner we get robot umpires, the better.

      • auggie1955 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:50 PM

        I think this call was much worse than the Denkinger call. Cardinal fans still like to cry about that one, but they had a chance to still win that game and they choked. Clark missed a foul ball and there was a passed ball on Porter later in the inning. Then the Cards got crushed in Game 7. They did not deserve to win.

        Meals blown call ended the game. There was no chance for the Pirates, who are battling for the Division, to recover.

      • Senor Cardgage - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:56 PM

        Even if the Pirates had gotten this call, there’s no guarantee they win, either. It’s not like it was a trap/no-trap with two outs on a play where the tying and go-ahead runs scored.

    • comanchepilot - Jul 31, 2011 at 6:15 PM

      Guys, there are two other people who potentially know if a tag was applied . .. the runner and the catcher. One knows pretty conclusively – the catcher – if he did [i] not [/i] apply a tag and knew it – then the call was right – but it seems to me that they probably asked both the catcher and the runner and they both said he was tagged . . . remember also – the Ump called him safe [i] before [/i] he touched homeplate- in this case the runner is not safe until he touches home . . . the Ump blew it.

  3. The Baseball Gods - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:00 PM

    Same bullshit, different day.

  4. mcs7584 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:00 PM

    Save the human element for balls, strikes and check swings. Allow replay for definite game-changing plays – like home runs, fair/foul balls, final outs of no-hitters and plays at the plate in the bottom of the 19th inning. Is it really too hard for MLB execs to figure out? They claim to continue to interleague play because the fans want it. Well, the fans, I’m guessing, want expanded replay, too. I mean, really. What could it hurt? Not a darn thing.

    • dohpey28 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:07 PM

      why is the last out more important then the 17th out? Or the 3rd out? They take 10 minutes to review a home run. How long are games going to be? They’re already over 3 hours.

      • The Baseball Gods - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:10 PM

        It takes much less than ten minutes to review a home run. Much closer to 4-5 minutes at most.

      • Utley's Hair - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:10 PM

        The VW Bus’ game last night was just over two hours. Jus’ sayin’ is all.

      • The Baseball Gods - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:11 PM

        Also, if you think the games are too long you obviously don’t enjoy watching baseball all that much. Which explains a lot with your posts.

      • mcs7584 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:13 PM

        Because within the context of this discussion, final play of the game determined the outcome.

      • skipperxc - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:13 PM

        Nobody’s saying use the replay system we have now, that would be stupid. Get rid of the one we have now and stick 5th umpire in the booth on a headset. No excuse not to.

      • sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:18 PM

        At home on my TV I saw it 10 times withing the first minute. No reason an umpire shouldn’t be afforded the same luxury.

      • fquaye149 - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:02 PM

        @ the baseball gods

        There are plenty of “real baseball fans” who think games are too long. Unless you think, for example, Bill James isn’t a real fan. That doesn’t necessarily mean IR is a terrible thing, but it is certainly worth considering, for instance, whether adding ten minutes to review a call to an already inflated game time is worth it, when, as likely would have been the case in last night’s game, the visual evidence probably would not have been indisputably conclusive enough tp overturn the call…to borrpw the phrasingof the NFL

      • jwbiii - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:39 PM

        dopey:
        The manager, Clint Hurdle in this case, is out there arguing with the umpire. The game is stopped. While that is going on, the review is taking place. Minimal extra time added to the game, if any.

  5. dohpey28 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    So we’re going to review every ball & strike call too? What’s the difference between that and a bang/bang play at home or any other base?

    For every blown call on the base paths or on a fair/foul ball I would say there are 20 missed pitches, if not more.

    • The Baseball Gods - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM

      Do you even watch baseball?

    • hittfamily - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:17 PM

      Bang bang plays have visible feet touching visible bags, and visible gloves touching visible balls, and visible gloved balls touching visible players. Ball/strike calls have visible balls crossing invisible planes that change from batter to batter, and move both in time, and space. It’s really pretty simple.

  6. natstowngreg - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM

    Sorry Joe, not buying it.

    We’re not talking about all judgment calls. Expanded replay would not include ball and strike calls (which constitute the vast majority of umpire judgment calls in any given game).

    Yes, imperfect human beings play and judge games. Respect is due to the imperfect human being known as Jerry Meals, for acknoledging that he erred. But the NFL has shown us the way to a system that allows for correction of most (not all) officials’ mistakes without hige delays.

    Finally, how hypocritical is it for MLB to talk about the “human element,” then allow instant replay for home run calls? Very.

    • hittfamily - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:21 PM

      …or throwing fans out for reaching inches into the field to protect themselves from balls the players get to use gloves on.

  7. hittfamily - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:12 PM

    Why have 4 umpires. Why not just a home plate plate umpire, and let him make all the calls, and embrace the human element. Unless of course, they want to insure accuracy of the call, which in that case, keep the other 3, and add replay.

    • adowding3 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:19 PM

      just make sure all the umpires are of age. We wouldnt want any 17 y/o umps tearing ligaments getting out of the way of a grounder, pesky labor laws.

      • hittfamily - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:54 PM

        Are you a slave trader or something?

  8. Old Gator - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:15 PM

    What has happened to Joe Torre? Was he always such a shameless shill, a toady for Bud Light? Did he never walk back to the dugout shaking his head at the unfathomable stupidity of the umpire? Was he never bounced on his ass after telling an umpire that he was a myopic, shambling mutant of a neanderthal moron?

    Well: does anyone remember that godawful 1957 Roger Corman “B” (to “b” generous) horror classic Attackof the Crab Monsters? Giant radioactive crabs munched on human victims and then took on their personalities, communicating with their next course telepathically in the voice of their last course. In one chilling scene (depending on how high you had turned your air conditioning, I mean) a befuddled future victim asks the inevitable scientist character, “why is our old friend Bob trying to kill and eat us?” And the scientist sagely replies, “survival of the species. He was a man. Now he’s a crab.”

    So let it be with Joe Torre….

    • Kevin S. - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:18 PM

      I’d love for somebody to go back through and quote-mine Torre’s years with the Dodgers and see if he ever reacted to bad calls by calling for instant replay.

    • natstowngreg - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:25 PM

      You want Joe Torre to be eaten by a giant mutant crab? Isn’t that a little harsh?

      • Old Gator - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:51 PM

        Well, since we’re all mutants or descendants of mutants in some sense, let me re-frame that quote from the Corman film: “He was a ballplayer. Now he works for the league office.”

        And for you young whippersnappers for whom the golden age of godawful horror movies is no more than myth, legend, dust – here’s a little fun distraction as we roll up on game time tonight:

        And for those of you who wondered why I christened the Feesh’s magic mantis from last night Dudley Mantis instead of “Mickey Mantis” as the broadcasting team would have it:

        So it’s true – those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it, eh?

      • hittfamily - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:58 PM

        How is it possible that you have recollection of some obscure 50’s movie, while simultaneously know how to embed video links? Skills!!!

      • natstowngreg - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:13 PM

        Not being in the “young whippersnapper:” category, I was traumatized at a young age by flicks of giant mutant ants and spiders and wasps and such.

      • Old Gator - Jul 27, 2011 at 9:20 PM

        Me too. My traumas kept me from growing up Republican. O felix culpa!

      • natstowngreg - Jul 27, 2011 at 10:10 PM

        Not sure what Felix has to do with this. Felix Millan? Felix Ungar? Felix the Cat?

  9. bigleagues - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:17 PM

    I think its time we start rejecting the charm of placing sagey old baseball legends old in positions of authority. Baseball is a sport that desperately needs an independent “big think” kind of person to steward the game.

  10. klbader - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:20 PM

    It is hypocritical for baseball to argue that the “human element” is an important part of baseball, rendering replay unnecessary, while at the same time allowing the use of replay on boundary calls. What logic possibly justifies allowing the human element, unaided by technology, to govern blown calls like last night, while also allowing the use of replay to see if a ball did or did not clear a wall, or landed in fair territory or just foul?

    People love baseball because it is a wonderful game. Baseball is a wonderful game because it pits arguably the most skilled athletes in all professional sports against one another in a fair competition to see which team wins. Fans are excited by this competition. But each time a call like the one that happened last night occurs, fans lose just a little bit of that love for the game. For fans like me, and for most of the readers of this site, it would take thousands of blown calls before we no longer loved the game. How long until the casual fan loses interest? No one — not the hardcore baseball fan, the casual fan, the players, coaches, and umpires — wants to see the wrong team win.

    Baseball can continue to adhere to its hypocritical policy of allowing the use of replay in one situation while unnecessarily preserving the human element in another, but it does so at its peril, and at the peril of this game that all of us have come to love so much.

  11. sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:22 PM

    This is pretty minor after the firestorm of the Galarraga imperfect game last season. If that did not inspire Bud to consider replay nothing will during his reign.

    I have spoken with Jerry, who is a hard-working, respected umpire, and no one feels worse than him.

    There is no need for him to feel bad, or Jim Joyce to feel bad. They should have a brief moment of embarrassment when the bad call is overturned by a booth umpire within 2 minutes, and the game continues with the right call. Being an umpire is hard. MLB should give them all the help available to do the job right.

  12. danandcasey - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:26 PM

    Here are the people that must decide this issue – Bud’s gang-of-14 (aka Special Committee for On-Field Matters): Tony La Russa, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, Joe Torre, Andy MacPhail, Terry Ryan, John Schuerholz, Mark Shapiro, Chuck Armstrong, Paul Beeston, Bill DeWitt, Dave Montgomery, Frank Robinson, George Will. Selig is the committee chair. The recent umpires’ collective bargaining agreement gives the Commissioner discretion to expand instant replay. That issue was assigned to the committee. So far, no changes.

    • JBerardi - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:36 PM

      Remember, when you’re considering ways to update and modernize baseball, make sure not to consult anyone who hasn’t been a baseball insider for at least 35 years. Under no circumstances consult anyone who’s opinion you don’t already know.

    • bigleagues - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:49 PM

      I hear AARP sponsored the last SCOM meeting.

      Seriously, what’s the average of that room? 64? And boot Scioscia and I’m not sure if Torre is even still on the committee, but boot him too and replace them with Joe Maddon and Ozzie Guillen (c’mon – how great it would be to have Ozzie bored and pissed off at the rest of the committee – firing off missive’s during a Will soliloquy on how baseball is a Rockwellian reflection of our country).

      • jwbiii - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:32 PM

        65, actually. Nice guess, bigleagues.

  13. hk62 - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:44 PM

    (A) He missed the call.
    (B) Four feet in front of the plate and a catcher does a swipe tag (why? executed but poorly – you remove all doubt in that play – I was a small catcher, I know the pain – still he had the size on Lugo)
    (C) If tags are reviewable, at the plate, then why not every tag? Meaning every game stops on every steal. (This part is more for Passan who whines way too much for someone with that much voice).
    (D) If all tags are reviewable then all force outs are reviewable, meaning the game stops for every double play
    And we aren’t talking seconds here, since the brush by from the SS on a DP or the swipe tag on a steal often take some very close looks to get right…and LOTS of 1B’s remove their foot a tick too soon.

    In the end, you may get 100% of the calls right – and games take 4+ hours to play in the NL and 5+ in the AL. TV money goes down which drives salaries down which means 3 sport high school stars play football – all because a 19 inning PIT-ATL game ended in a blown call. (LOL – really projecting there huh?)

    • Ari Collins - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:55 PM

      How’re you and the little straw woman getting along, over there?

      No one is saying review every play. And no one is arguing that we should do it in a way that takes forever. But for the easy-to-review plays, there are definitely many ways to do it that are quick, clean, simple, and should have been done 30 years ago.

    • Kevin S. - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:00 PM

      Too bad you’ve set up a straw man construct. The reviewer has until the resumption of play to review the footage. It takes time for the defense to reset, the batter to get to the plate, etc. Typically, he’ll know whether he needs to reverse the call by the time play is ready to resume, and on the rare occasions he needs to buzz the crew chief for more time, the manager will probably still be pitching a fit anyway.

  14. spudchukar - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:45 PM

    It is also human to have your heart ripped out after 19 innings, compounded by 22 or whatever years of defeat, and feel absolutely gored as your once proud organization begins to resemble a winner. Sure it is tough on Meal, who by all accounts is a good ump and guy, but Torre should remember it is also gut-wrenching to the Pirates and their fans.

  15. nofunleague - Jul 27, 2011 at 5:46 PM

    The Neanderthal era is over. Use the technology available. If the umps are as good as they and the league say they are, replays won’t hurt them at all. No umpire likes being shown up and they know that replays will do just that.

    • Old Gator - Jul 27, 2011 at 9:23 PM

      You obviously haven’t been reading some of the latest findings in Nature or Science that, based on DNA evidence, Neanderthals clearly hybridized with so-called “modern” humans – a sort of late Cenozoic predication of the Schwarzenegger-Shriver nuptials. At any rate there’s still a lot of recessive DNA around, and the league office appears to be something of a hotspot for it.

  16. bigleagues - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:07 PM

    Ho would Torre know anything about the ‘human element’. He’s only slightly younger than Frankenstein – and would need very little in terms of wardrobe to pull it off on Halloween.

  17. johngaltwho - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:29 PM

    No reason baseball shouldn’t apply replays much like football. Managers get two challenges per game and a replacement if they have the call overturned on a challenge. Game ending plays are open to review by the official without a challenge. Wouldn’t extend the game by more than a few minutes. Personally, I’ve never seen a call that bad in my life and that is not hyperbole.

    • fquaye149 - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:07 PM

      No reason? I wouldn’t go that far. I find IR in NFL games excruciatingly obnoxious to watch. Now, granted, there is a very strong argument to be made that putting up with that overexact nitpicking that half the time is unable to overturn the call, even if it looks likely the call is wrong is still an important thing to have in the game to have a contingency plan against human error. Sure, I’ll buy that, if not support it wholeheartedly.

      But to say “there is no reason not to add IR” is just as fallacious and hyperbolic as to say “the human error element is ESSENTIAL to the game” like jackass Torre is saying here.

  18. sirtheory - Jul 27, 2011 at 6:51 PM

    To me the issue is less about the “human element”, and more about the AGENDA behind said “human element”. Everybody makes mistakes–that is a traditional part of baseball. What Torre and the MLB will refuse to acknowledge is that Meals was most likely acting out of a desire to go home and sleep–and in the process threw the Pirates under the bus.

    You don’t call that play safe unless you WANT to call that play safe.

    • fquaye149 - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:08 PM

      This is an absolutely asinine claim.

    • natstowngreg - Jul 27, 2011 at 10:17 PM

      So you’re essentially saying Meals threw the game. Pathetic.

  19. Reggie's Bush - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:27 PM

    Could you please tell Joe Torre and MLB to embrace my crotch?

    Sincerly,

    Everyone.

  20. mplsjoe - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:45 PM

    Torre says: “instant replay can never replace all judgment calls by umpires.”

    Among the many problems is this: this was not a judgment call. It was a fact call – the runner was either safe, because he beat the tag, or he was out, because the tag beat him. Both can’t be true. A judgment call is a call that can go either way and is left to the ump’s judgment. There really aren’t many in baseball – whether a fielder is transferring the ball from glove to hand, or still catching it, when he drops it is an example of a judgment call. This one is simple – the runner is either factually safe or factually out. Reply would fix this; baseball chooses not to do so.

  21. nothanksimdriving123 - Jul 27, 2011 at 7:52 PM

    Joe and Bud’s human element should be reserved for how the players play and managers manage. Here is my suggestion for how to move MLB into the 21st century and provide the umps with the help most of them would rather receive to get it right than have to apologize the next day. (And by the way, to the traditionalists who always fear the sky falling, MLB has survived the advent of good ideas such as electric lights, plane travel and racial integration, and even bad ideas like interleague play and having a meaningless game decide which league gets home field for the World Series.) Follow the NHL’s lead and have a replay center, perhaps in New York. Each manager gets one challenge for each 3 innings played. They can challenge fair/foul and out/safe calls, and perhaps a few other less frequent disputes, but not ball/strike calls. If the Replay officials support the original call, so be it, and that challenge is used up. If the officials overturn the ump, the manager retains that challenge for later use. This will protect the team in rare cases of really poor umpiring that game. No argument is allowed after the replay ruling is made. This will likely have the net result of speeding games up, not slowing them down. In the olden days, bad calls could be argued by fans for years without evidence of who was right. But with modern media, we now often know in seconds who was right, and it is hurting the integrity of the sport to have as many games as we do widely known to be so obviously decided wrongly, especially with a simple remedy at hand.

    • jimbo1949 - Jul 27, 2011 at 9:12 PM

      “the advent of good ideas such as electric lights, plane travel and racial integration”
      All done to improve the bottom line. I’d also add: day/nite doubleheaders, throwback games, online ticket sales, TV networks etc. Anything to improve the bottom line.
      Now you’re asking baseball to spend some money to modernize for modernization’s sake, bring the game into the 21st century and they don’t want to mess with tradition, “the human element always will be part of baseball” bullshit.

    • natstowngreg - Jul 27, 2011 at 10:29 PM

      I like how the NHL does it. They have an office in Toronto where a bunch of experienced hockey guys eat pizza and monitor the TV feed of every game. [Is that a great job, or what?]

      If needed, referees can call on them to review a goal/no goal decision. Doesn’t seem to me that they take excessive time, especially considering the importance of one goal in many NHL games.

      I’m sure MLB could find enough experienced baseball guys (ex., retired umpires) to get paid to eat pizza and watch ballgames. If not, I’ll be happy to volunteer, for the sake of the game I love.

      • flynnie321 - Jul 28, 2011 at 5:41 AM

        Toronto gets it right. And there is a human element to be concerned about. Tim Donaghy. The NBA ref scandal. The Black Sox. Umps need money. Refs need money. Why put them in harm’s way? That’s why replay was instituted in football. That’s why it should be in baseball. “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9 “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh [human nature and natural self] his strength, . . . he shall not see goodness.” Jeremiah 17:5, 6

  22. ispysomething7 - Jul 27, 2011 at 10:55 PM

    Look at the picture again……..it’s Sid Bream sliding in safe. The ball was thrown by Bonds fro, left field.

    Atlanta OWNS Pittsburgh

    • lanflfan - Jul 29, 2011 at 4:08 PM

      Hardly conclusive, since after that playoff game (or a little after) most teams have owned Pittsburgh.

  23. cktai - Jul 28, 2011 at 1:30 AM

    The Human Element are the players. I don’t care if every call including balls and strikes are being made by a computer, as long as the players are human, that is all the Human Element I need.

  24. lanflfan - Jul 29, 2011 at 4:06 PM

    Joe Torre, I respect you as a baseball man for your knowledge of the game and the years you have given to it.

    That said, you need to embrace “technology”, and what a simple change could do for the “good of the game”. A small number of “challenges” will not destroy the game, will not drastically increase game times (no more than endless pitching changes) and is some Joe “Fan” wants. Just do it, please.

  25. nlfan865 - Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM

    yeah lets give the fans what they want….thats a dillusional statement…how bout we just play the stinking game already and quit pissin and moanin about strikes and balls and close plays.. the umps job is to make the call good or bad thats part of the game not a computer or replay… thats a load of hogwash….the game is fine the way it is….and guess what if ya lose one…oh there is another one tommorow…if the pirates had had that same play anytime in the last 18 seasons noone would have even registered a comment because who cares what happens in a pirates game they are triple A like KC….next youll be wanting HBP to count as a run….oh oh lets check the replay he meant to hit him……

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