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Phillies pay heavy price for overvalued Hunter Pence

Jul 29, 2011, 11:18 PM EDT

Hunter Pence AP

The Phillies got their middle-of-the-order hitter Friday, picking up two-time All-Star Hunter Pence from the Astros for first baseman Jonathan Singleton, RHP Jarred Cosart, RHP Josh Zeid and a still undisclosed fourth player.

It’s the right-handed bat the Phillies felt they needed to slot in behind Chase Utley and Ryan Howard in the order.  Pence, though, hasn’t been all that much better than Domonic Brown of late.  He’s batting .200 with just two RBI in 45 at-bats since the All-Star break.  Since June 1, he’s hitting .297/.344/.424 with three homers and 19 RBI in 172 at-bats.

Maybe now that he’s finished with the trade rumors, he’ll improve.  The Phillies are certainly banking on it after surrendering their top two prospects.  Singleton, who is just 19, was hitting .284/.387/.413 for Single-A Clearwater this season.  Because of Howard’s presence, the Phillies tried him in left field earlier this year.  But that didn’t take.  Singleton should be a 30-homer guy down the line, and he could be an upgrade over Brett Wallace by the end of 2013.

Cosart, 21, was also at Clearwater and was 9-8 with a 3.92 ERA and a 79/43 K/BB ratio in 108 innings.  He lacks polish for someone regarded as a top pitching prospect, but he throws in the mid-90s and shows a plus curveball.  He’s a definite candidate to flame out, but he has top-of-the-rotation potential.

Zeid isn’t so talented.  The 24-year-old had a 5.65 ERA and a 56/27 K/BB ratio in 63 2/3 innings while splitting time between the rotation and the pen for Double-A Reading.  If he makes it in the majors, it’ll be as a middle reliever.

Pence is the Phillies’ answer to Carlos Beltran, and the fact that he’s under control through 2013 necessated the big offer.  He will give the Phillies offense a lift, and he may well make a difference as a No. 5 hitter come playoff time.  Still, it’s debatable whether he was really enough of an upgrade to justify the investment.  He has a 119 OPS+ since 2009, which puts him a bit below fellow corner outfielders Nick Swisher and Josh Willingham and barely above Corey Hart and Bobby Abreu.  He is an above average defender and an asset on the basepaths, but he’s not truly a star and he’s about to get paid like one.

  1. schmedley69 - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:27 PM

    We won’t really know what kind of a price the Phillies paid until 3 or 4 years down the road. No, Pence is a not a superstar, but the Phillies need a RH bat, and their window for winning another World Series is right now. The Phillies have been around since 1883 and they only have 2 titles. The Marlins have only been around since 1993, and they already have 2. If the Phillies have to “overpay” in an attempt to win another title, then what the hell, go for it.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 PM

      I’m not seeing how this is an overpay. I”m really not. Cosart might be ranked high, but many scouts are down on him and actually view Trevor May as the better prospect. I think Singleton will be good. But how good would he have to be to make this a “heavy price”?

      • dan1111 - Jul 30, 2011 at 3:56 AM

        Why I agree with Matt:

        1) One point he made that people seem to be missing: it’s not just Pence’s value that matters. It’s the amount of upgrade he provides. Domonic Brown has a lot of upside. He crushed minor league pitching and has been holding his own in the majors, all at a very young age. He could easily be better than Pence for the rest of this season. Even if you think Pence was worth those prospects, it’s still a bad deal if he doesn’t improve the team very much.

        2) The Phillies are not desperate. They are already probably the safest bet in baseball to make the playoffs. Their offense was already decent enough, and their pitching has the potential to dominate any team in the playoffs.

        3) This is not their one chance to win it all. Cole Hamels is signed for one more year, Halladay for three more, and Lee for five more. Key offensive players are locked up for several more years, as well. With lots of money to spend, the Phillies should be good for years to come. There’s no reason to sacrifice the future for today.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 30, 2011 at 7:25 AM

        Dan,
        If this were purely a rental, then point number 1 would carry some more weight. However, Pence is around for another two years and it solves the outfield situation for next season. For me the problem with Brown was his defense. It was ridiculously shoddy and was detrimental to the team. Right now Pence is a better player than Brown. My thinking all along was that they should not include Brown in any deal for Pence, because I think Brown will be a better player than Pence as early as next season. However, right now it is an upgrade. It also allows something of a platoon in left with Ibanez and Mayberry Jr.

      • schmedley69 - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:39 AM

        drmonkey has it right. Dom Brown is a butcher in RF and can not be trusted in the playoffs. Keith Law and the rest of the stat geeks don’t see those kind of things when they look at the stats. Those of us who actually watch the games know that Brown is not ready. He is a horrible fielder right now and needs more seasoning.

  2. blinkevan - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:28 PM

    don’t be so down on pence he’s much younger,less injury proned,and no need to hrk

  3. drmonkeyarmy - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:29 PM

    So they heavy price is a guy with limited talent, I guy who very well might flame out, and Singleton. I think Singleton will be good. He hasn’t flashed the power yet, but he has good plate discipline and the power will come with age in my opinion. And Matthew, prospects are just that prospects. A lot can happen between A ball and the majors.

  4. halladaysbiceps - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:37 PM

    “Phillies pay heavy price for non-star in Hunter Pence”

    Explain this, please. Non-star? You said in your 1st sentence in the article that he is a 2 time All-Star. Obviously, he is a star at some level.

    Second, Phillies pay heavy price? What? We gave up some minor league players at the single A level. What did we give up?

    Before you post garbage title like this, think before you post. And if you are serious with the title of your post, there is something wrong with your baseball acumen.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:43 PM

      I kind of agree that Pence isn’t a “star”….just like Jayson Werth wasn’t a “star”. Only one “star” in the Phillies line-up and that is Chase Utley. Of course my definition of “star” is very strict. Anyway, his blog title is purposefully confrontational probably meant to drive up the hits. I wouldn’t worry about it. Did the Giants overpay for Beltran? Assuming Wheeler and Cosart are roughly equivalent the difference is essentially Singleton. Is an extra two years of Pence worth Singleton while compared to Beltran (who is a better offensive player right now)? I would say so. Like I said, I don’t think it was an over pay at all. I think the addition of Trevor May would have made it an over pay…but we are talking about guys like Josh Zeid.

      • halladaysbiceps - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:50 PM

        Good Doctor,

        Mets were not dealing within NL East. It’s that simple. Beltran would have never been a Phillie.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:52 PM

        That wasn’t my point though. My point was that if one says the Phillies “over paid”, does it not stand to reason that the Giants “over paid”?

      • halladaysbiceps - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:58 PM

        Good Doctor,

        The writer of this particular blog entry seems to think that the Phils overpaid for this particular player. I don’t see it that way. We did not do so. I agree with you. I read what you had to say and I agree with whole heart.

      • sasquash20 - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:31 AM

        Howard is a star douche monkey. If not for maybe the best right handed bat to come around in a long time in Poljouls, he would get his due. Utley is awesome but Howard is just as important if not more so. He carries the team every Aug/Sept.

      • seeingwhatsticks - Jul 30, 2011 at 4:27 AM

        That comment from sasquash20 is both the best and worst comment ever. I want to be able to give it a thumbs up and a thumbs down.

      • nocryinginbaseball07 - Jul 30, 2011 at 7:24 AM

        I agree. Beltran would have been a two month rental, and Brown’s ability to ever improve at defense is very questionable. The Phillies just landed an exciting player who is a proven contributor at both offense and defense, and apparently is the kind of class act that this club wants in their clubhouse. For guys who might be very good someday. Too high a price? We’ll see, but I don’t think so.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 30, 2011 at 7:30 AM

        Sasquatch….my definition of star is real strict. Howard was a star, but not right now. For all his injuries, Utley is one of the if not the premier offense second baseman in baseball while ridiculously underrated defensively. Howard, while potentially electric and a great RBI guy, has slipped in production the past couple seasons. I’m not a Howard hater. I think he is a very good player, but if you said name the top 4 first baseman in baseball….where is Howard on that list?

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:16 AM

        Dr, so only the top four first basemen are stars? Lol. I guess being in the top seven or eight just makes you average. Ryan Howard is a star. If you want to say he isn’t playing like a superstar, like he did his first four years, ok I’ll buy that. But top seven at his position and RBI machine makes him a star.

    • legaleagle513 - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:56 PM

      Absolutely agree with you. The Phillies gave up 4 possibles for a .309 hitter and 2 time allSTAR. I can’t believe we are reading what they are getting paid thousands of dollars to write. What is wrong with us?? Just saying.

  5. halladaysbiceps - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:44 PM

    Original title to story that Matthew cared to edit: “Phillies pay heavy price for non-star in Hunter Pence”

    He changed it to “Phillies pay heavy price for overvalued Hunter Pence.”

    Matt, I will give you advice. The difference between you, me and my fellow commenters is that we do not get paid for accuracy AND correctness/fairness, but you do. Please think next time before you write, as you are paid to do so.

    • halladaysbiceps - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:01 AM

      Unbelievable. 5 thumbs down on a change in headlines over the span of a few minutes that I pointed out.

      God forbid as a commenter that I would make the same error. I would be crucified.

      According to most of you, everyone likes pointing out mistakes. That’s all I’m doing. Get real.

      • genericcommenter - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:22 AM

        You were wrong because everyone knows that bloggers don’t get paid for writing posts in their mothers’ basements. Duh.

      • paperlions - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:09 AM

        Pence isn’t a star, he is a good player. There are plenty of non-stars on the AS team every single year, that moniker is meaningless. His star status really isn’t worth arguing about, his production shows that he is a good player, but clearly not a star. He is a major upgrade over Ibanez and fills a hole for the next 2 years with solid offensive and defensive production….that is a good thing.

        I would disagree more with calling him over-valued. Pence isn’t a star, but odds are that none of the players Philly gave up will ever be stars either.

    • halladaysbiceps - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:15 AM

      Matthew Pouliot,

      I realize you are as passionate about baseball as anyone. However, when you tell a fanbase (i.e. my fanbase, the Phils) that we received a non-star in Pence for what we gave up, I take offense to that. This is an exciting time for us. I just wanted to let you know that you probably did not mean to put it that way (or maybe you did), but don’t take offense to my critique above.

      It’s reactionary from a rabid Phillies fan.

      Sorry if I came off to strong with my critique.

      • Ari Collins - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:23 AM

        The new, more mature bicepts, everyone!

      • halladaysbiceps - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:26 AM

        Ari,

        Keyboards can be dangerous. After reading what I wrote to Mr. Pouliot, I realized that I was very toxic with my response. So, in kind, I apologized. Matt is a good writer and should be treated with some respect, even from a bonehead like me.

  6. dcho102 - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:46 PM

    So this article is awful lol. The title says the Phillies overpaid, then trashes the prospects that the Phillies gave. LOL. FIND A NEW JOB MATT LOL

  7. dbick - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:46 PM

    Phillies without a doubt over paid for a player I think is a little overrated, but they definitely needed a right handed bat in that line up. However, I only see this being a big addition if they let Brown continue to either start or platoon with Ibanez. Brown is basically Ibanez equal in every area of the field, defense, baserunning and hitting (his power is only down because he broke the hamate bone in his hand). If they continue to let Ibanez start over Brown I still think this offense is not significantly better than before the trade, however if they let Brown keep playing and developing I think the offense can improve more.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 29, 2011 at 11:51 PM

      I don’t really agree with you, but you make a decent point. Out of curiosity, what do you think the Phillies would have given to not “overpay”?

      • dbick - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:03 AM

        That’s a good question but tough to answer because I don’t think the Astros would’ve gave him away for anything less than they offered (though reports were they did offer brown and the stro’s didnt want him). But I would’ve been ok with them giving up Singleton simply because unless they trade Howard he’s blocked for years, and I would’ve been willing to give up Freddy Galvis(tough to do with Rollins maybe leaving) or Sebastian Valle cos I’m not really sold on him as the catcher of the future. I like Cosart, and think he will be really good one day, he’s basically the reason I think they overpaid.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:07 AM

        Fair enough. I think the Brown rumors were nonsense. It doesn’t stand to reason that the Astros would reject a Brown, Cosart, Singleton deal only to accept a deal sans Brown replaced with Zeid and another low level prospect. Jayson Stark was just on TV saying that the Astros were asking for Cosart, Singleton, Biddle, +1.

    • bleedgreen - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:05 AM

      Actually, over the past few weeks/two months, Ibanez has been making some REALLY great defensive plays. I don’t know what happened but he’s been diving and leaping and making catches that even as early as 3 months ago, you’d go ‘Who’s wearing the Ibanez jersey making those catches in LF?’. Not sure what happened, but he seems to be running a lot better. Maybe not necessarily worlds faster, but ‘better’. Brown just doesn’t read balls right off the bat. He freezes for too long before reacting and then has to extend and make 1 handed catches while running full bore on balls that Ibanez or Victorino would be standing under waiting for patiently. Offensively, Brown and Ibanez appear to have similar averages, but Ibanez comes in bunches and Dom looks like he hits his average ‘consistently’. IE, if he’s batting 250, he gets 1 hit every 4 at bats. Ibanez, on the other hand, will go 0-12 then go 4-4. Still a 250 hitter, but got there a different way.

      I think Brown needs a LOT of coaching defensively, and just needs time to mature at the plate. In the end, if Pence is the every day right fielder, I think you platoon Brown and Ibanez and sprinkle in Mayberry across the entire outfield at least twice a week to spell other guys depending on the pitching match ups.

  8. Ari Collins - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:04 AM

    They overpaid in that the prospect package they gave up is the kind that usually gets you a really good player, and Pence is only a good one. The prospects may flame out, and they may turn into superstars. Prospects are like that, but it was still a high price in prospects to give up to a guy who’s not an impact player.

    This is mitigated somewhat by the fact that he’s not a rental, of course, but he figures to make something like $24M over the next two years, so he’s not exactly cheap, either.

    On the fourth hand, flags fly forever.

    • halladaysbiceps - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:07 AM

      Ari, we gave nothing up from the major league roster. The Phils gave the Astros (2) good prospects, (2) mid to lower ones.

      They did not overpay. Fair market value, I would say.

      • Ari Collins - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:19 AM

        Nothing from the major league roster is always good, but 2 top prospects (not just good, but really good) and 2 mid to lower ones is an overpay.

        Again, nothing off the major league roster, and that’s great. But that’s a big price in prospects for a non-elite player. That’s just the reality of the trading market. The Phillies gave up more than Pence is worth on the market.

        I’m not saying that overpaying is even a bad thing, if it fills a hole in your roster, and it was that or a worse player, and you’re playoff bound.

        But it was, no question, an overpay.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:10 AM

      I don’t know, I guess I’m not as sold on Cosart as some are. I guess that is why I don’t think they gave up too much.

    • Jonny 5 - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:18 AM

      Hey Matt, not here to bash you. But damn if he isn’t the deal of the century lining him up against the guy who used to play RF huh? Imagine the impact of signing Werth at what he ended up with. Ouch! Tough buisiness decisions, but I think I like this path better than signing Werth at this point. He’s been turrible, just turrible. I think these other Phills fans need to cut you some slack, they did get better a a cost that’s somewhat steep for the return, but there was little choice. Plus I think the Phillies owed it to Houston for being so generous in the past anyway, so there’s that. ;)

  9. Jonny 5 - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:06 AM

    Yeah, they paid more than what Pence should have drawn in any normal season, but the Giants are serious come playoff time, it’s no joke, and they got better. The Phills had to do something of substance to get better for the simple fact that if thet did not, and get beat in the playoffs all this would be dredged up as a non-move and the mistake Amaro made and cost them the WS.

  10. Matthew Pouliot - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:33 AM

    I just think Pence is a good player, not a great one, and he’ll get paid close to market value the next two years. The return for the Astros here is about what the Red Sox gave up for Adrian Gonzalez.

    It’s not my intention to slam Pence or the Phillies. It was just a lot to surrender.

    • halladaysbiceps - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:36 AM

      Agreed, Matt. Sorry for my strong response. Please see above.

      We are just happy to have Pence in town.

      • Matthew Pouliot - Jul 30, 2011 at 2:07 AM

        Don’t worry about it. I don’t take it personally, but I did appreciate your second note.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:38 AM

      This is what you ask for (perhaps literally?) when you bait a rabid fanbase by using cold logic while they’re busy being excited about their new hitter.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:48 AM

      Also, A-Gon is a good comparison, in that the prospects were equivalent (in fact, the Phillies package was probably more valuable), while Pence is, obviously, not in Adrian’s company.

  11. xmatt0926x - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:37 AM

    Title makes it seem like a horrid deal yet 1 prospect is a guy blocked for the next 5 years and couldn’t convert to the outfield and the other is a young pitcher without the polish he should have for someone touted as high as he may be. did they overpay? Yeah. Thats what happens at the trade deadline for teams that GO FOR IT. There are plenty of teams tonight that didnt overpay for anyone and guess what? They have no shot at a world series either. Did the Giants overpay for Beltran? Possibly. Who knows yet? But they are GOING FOR IT. Isn’t that what most fans wish their teams would do? Yeah, the phillies won’t have any moneyball books or anything like that written about them but we as a fan base get to experience another year of October baseball with a chance to win it all. I won’t waste anyone’s time listing all the teams that didn’t overpay with their top prospects this year who are going on 20-30 years since their team even came close to winning it all. Congrats to those teams!!

    • bleedgreen - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:11 AM

      Agree, theres no trophy for ‘Best Roster put together that didn’t win anything’ or ‘Most efficient use of salary’. The trophy is for winning the World Series, and if you don’t improve your team, you don’t win the World Series.

  12. macjacmccoy - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:39 AM

    2 true Prospects n 2 throw ins for major league talent whose a 2 time allstar is never over paying. It just isnt.

    • 5thbase - Aug 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM

      Stop it with the All-Star nonsense. McLouth was an “All-Star” because he was the only good player on the Pirates at the time. Pence was an “All-Star” because he was the best player on a horrible Astros team. Not sure if you realize, but every team has to have a representative. Just because you’re the best player on a horrible team doesn’t make you a real star. You’re just the logical representative for an exhibition. Plus, let’s be honest, when you’re surrounded by garbage anything good you do tends to be blown our of proportion.

      I think it’s funny that the Phillies got someone who really isn’t quite as good as Nick Swisher but they’re acting like they got something amazing.

  13. sasquash20 - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:41 AM

    We want to win now. So if we over did it I don’t care. I would now move Brown and whatever prospects we have left for a LF who can hit. Go Phillies!

  14. schmedley69 - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:44 AM

    Rumor has it that the Phillies had a chance to aquire Randy Johnson at the 1993 trade deadline, but they backed out because they didn’t want to include Ricky Bottalico in the deal. Bottalico turned out to be a decent player, but in retrospect, they probably should have made that trade. If they did, there would probably be another flag sandwiched between the 1980 and 2008 at CBP.

    Not putting Pence in the same class as the unit, but I’m glad to see that the Phillies have abandoned their “always playing for tomorrow” philosophy of the Bill Giles regime. If you have a legit chance at a title, go for it. Chances like this don’t come around very often.

    • dan1111 - Jul 30, 2011 at 3:32 AM

      Interesting, but a little bit misleading, because at the time of the 1993 trade deadline Randy Johnson had been just a slightly above-average pitcher over five seasons. In hindsight they look bad for not making the trade, but only because from that point on Johnson became one of the game’s all-time great pitchers.

      If Pence suddenly turns into a hall-of-fame slugger, I’m sure the Phillies will be happy with their trade.

  15. SmackSaw - Jul 30, 2011 at 2:26 AM

    Von Hayes

    • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 30, 2011 at 7:33 AM

      Von Hayes had some good seasons.

  16. sebadiah23 - Jul 30, 2011 at 3:03 AM

    Sites like Bleacher Report and this site are killing themselves with these ridiculous headlines. The Phils get at least an extra 2 months from Pence compared to Adrian, they are shooting for a World Series right now, and Singleton had no future here. But that information is boring I guess so they trash the trade vaguely instead. The two situations are worlds apart.

    The writer will undoubtedly say that he didn’t write the headline.

  17. mikeypa - Jul 30, 2011 at 3:12 AM

    Pence will only be better when surrounded by talent and playing in front of 45k every night. Having the stability of a model franchise will allow him to focus, and a playoff run will motivate him. Great pickup, and great job keeping brown.

  18. gabrielthursday - Jul 30, 2011 at 3:52 AM

    My goodness. Compare this trade with the package the Cardinals got for Rasmus. 2 top-50 prospects compared to Edwin Jackson, Rzepczynski, Dotel and Patterson is ridiculous. I suppose this proves that Ed Wade>>John Mozeliak.

    • paperlions - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:15 AM

      It is hard to blame Mo in this situation, he has relatively little power in the organization compared to the manager and compared to other GMs, if LaRussa wants a player gone (Rolen, Ryan, Rasmus, etc.), then he is traded; if he wants a players acquired (Holliday, Theriot), then he is acquired.

  19. mojosmagic - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:10 AM

    Stats are for losers along with “potential”. Hunter Spence plays baseball with his hair on fire. He plays solid D and leads all outfielders in assists. Spence’s excellent career offensive stats are as consistent with any player in the game. If you have 300 batting average along with 25 homers a year your good not ” lucky” as the uniformed writer suggest.

  20. Chris Fiorentino - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 AM

    Matt, how come you didn’t post why you truly think this was an overpay? Were you afraid to post Pence’s BABIP, which is supposed to be around .375? Were you afraid to turn this into a sabremetric thread? Lol. If you look at the tweets of Jin Heyman, the Astros didn’t get “very much” for Pence. I guess he doesn’t agree with The assessment that Cosart and Singleton, who the Phillies would not need the next 3-4 years anyway, are top 25 prospects. Most including me disagree.

    This was a great bating headline. You learned well from Obi-Wan Calcaterra.

    • Ari Collins - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:20 AM

      No need to go all BABIP on anyone. His current performance even with the luck on balls in play is not elite level, which was his point.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:56 AM

        Hitting .321 with an .850 OPS and a 139 OPS+ isn’t good? What was I thinking? What were the Phillies thinking? Idiots!!!!!!

    • drmonkeyarmy - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:53 AM

      Also, that Bowden fellow who analyzes over on ESPN…former Reds GM thinks that the Astros didn’t get enough in return either.

    • fquaye149 - Jul 30, 2011 at 12:13 PM

      You guys realize you are citing Jon Heyman and Jim Bowden right?

  21. cleverbob - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:33 AM

    Phils add a bat without giving up any immediate impact players. Besides, even if Singleton pans out he’ll be blocked in the majors by Ryan Howard at first and (hopefully) Dominic Brown in left.

    Chalk it up as a win.

  22. cleverbob - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:36 AM

    Oh, and Ben Francisco, thanks for the effort but it just hasn’t worked out. Pack your bags.

  23. bigtrav425 - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:39 AM

    Pence was the best bat on the market,and you add in how control him for the next 2 yrs and that makes what the Phillies gave up for him about right.There is never any sure thing when it comes to prospects,so who knows what these cats are going to do.i know about prospects im a Indians fans! lol…….Brown has struggled this yr and who knows he may never live up to his hype.so i think this was a fair deal becasue Houston needs talent and more of it

  24. phillyphan975 - Jul 30, 2011 at 8:48 AM

    Look, the bottom line is we really just lost Cosart. Singleton would have never saw a second in the bigs… So this is a win for the Phils as we get a nice support bat at the 5 slot and Hosuton gets what they want a bunch of prospects who may or may not flurish… If the Phillies do not get to the WS they can say they did everything they could…If they did not get Pence, the fan base and everyone else would have blammed it on not having a right hand bat.

  25. paperlions - Jul 30, 2011 at 9:21 AM

    To me the worst part of the write-up is reference to Pence batting .200 in his last 45 ABs, as if that is a meaningful sample size (add a 5 for 5 onto that and suddenly he’s hitting .280 over the last 50 ABs). Gee, what is more important, a tiny sample size or several years of data? It is just a silly thing to say in any comparison.

    You know who’s been better than Albert Pujols over the last 45 ABs? Jacoby Ellsbury. Know what that means? Nothing.

    Looks, the Phillies are an old team…Rollins, Utley, Howard, Victorino, Pollanco, Ibanzez, Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, etc….their time to go for titles in now. By the time Cosart or Singleton are able to contribute, their time will have passed. This was the exact type of deal that each team should have made, paying Pence $20+MM over the next two years would have been a waste for Houston…and their farm system is barren.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 AM

      Paper, I agree 100%. Wouldn’t the entire season be a better sample size? No, because saying Pence is overrated and not a star when he is hitting .321 with an .850 OPS and a 139 OPS+ would sound so ridiculous wouldn’t it?

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