Comments on: Presenting: your first place Arizona Diamondbacks

By: 5thbase

5thbase — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:45:22 +0000

He’s scrappy.

By: spindervish

spindervish — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:19:24 +0000

Fair enough.

However, I would recommend that you make fun of your friend.

By: stoankold

stoankold — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 18:28:42 +0000

@Ari – That all depends on how people define “value” doesn’t it? Could the team have been in the same position without said player? If a player puts up great numbers (sabermetric or otherwise) for a team that finishes 20 games out, how valuable can that possibly be? Should he win an award for keeping his team from finishing 25-30 games out? Probably not. Whereas a player putting up similar numbers for a team that’s playing meaningful games in September and October probably should.

The Cy Young Award is not given to the most “valuable” pitcher, it’s given to the best pitcher. That definition lends itself more easily to the analysis of advanced metrics as you mentioned.

A Cy Young Award winner is eligible to win the MVP because they’re different awards with different criteria. Same goes for MOP and MVP.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:24:04 +0000

Actually I tend to lean in the direction you do more than to thinking people are “clutch” or not (even though some people buck trends). I was just really sticking up for the guy I work with, it is what he’s been seeing from him of late. I was only repeating the words of a Mets fan. It was fun though.

By: spindervish

spindervish — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:56:07 +0000

Me? Neither. I find the whole concept pretty ridiculous.

I prefer to think of Beltran as a very good hitter who as such is more likely than most to perform well in any given situation.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:33:14 +0000

It doesn’t matter which way you twist it Spindervish, are you going to call him clutch for what he did long ago, or the opposite for what he’s been doing lately?

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:26:48 +0000

I think we’re far along in the sabermetric revolution that non-contending teams’ players can win the MVP if they’re decidedly better. Well, I guess I’m not sure of that. Don’t think it’s happened since A-Rod in 2003.

We’ve gotten past wins in the Cy Young, at least. Maybe players on losing teams can start winning MVPs soon.

By: spindervish

spindervish — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:26:26 +0000

So he used to be clutch, but is clutch no longer? I thought clutchiness was an innate quality you were born with. Can the “clutch gene” spontaneously develop, and just as spontaneously disappear?

Who are you, Skip Bayless?

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:26:11 +0000

2009 in high leverage, Beltran posts
OPS / BABIP
1.048 / .484

2010
.652 / .286

2011
.763 / .294

2009 shows he had a great OPS in clutch situations while having a very high BABIP as well. Take the “luck” out (which I like to call ability to hit the ball into a gap) and Beltran reverts to being very “unclutchy” lately. People who see him blast the ball all over then in tough situations see him fail (fans) for the last couple years have been saying this. He’s not the worst thing out there. I’m not cutting him up.

By: marshmallowsnake

marshmallowsnake — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:15:43 +0000

I will be going to the D’Backs/Dodgers game this Friday…if you look closely, you will see me in the crowd. Just do not get me confused with the multitude of empty seats that are sure to be there as well. The fan base here rocks! (better then Tampa though…as the D’Backs are not giving away 20k tickets yet)

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:13:17 +0000

And what was his BABIP in the seasons he wasnt clutch?

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:10:57 +0000

UZR (which is, in my opinion, definitely better for OFs, since it’s all about range) is much higher on Upton and lower on Kemp, so per fWAR they’re essentially tied.

Either one would make a fine MVP at this point.

By: ja4ed

ja4ed — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:09:52 +0000

Did you not mention fWAR for some reason? UZR hates Kemp’s defense so the fWAR sees the difference in Kemp and Upton at 0.1.

Kemp has probably been a little bit better, but we all know that the rules of MVP voting state that all players from non-contending teams cannot win.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:59:45 +0000

Yeah because using his numbers from 6 and 8 seasons ago when he was in the post season tells you a lot about a player today. C’mon spindervish PAY ATTENTION! Since then look at his OPS in high leverage situations, it has been bad. Barring one season where his BABIP was almost .500 in high leverage situations driving his OPS upward with luck.

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:29:40 +0000

Um…the most outstanding player is the player that adds the most value to his team, making him the MVP as well…

By: APBA Guy

APBA Guy — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:22:38 +0000

Don’t forget, the Giants had just added Posey at roughly this point last year, and this year they don’t have him. In my estimation the addition of Beltran makes this Giants team the approximate equal of last year’s, a team which barely made it into the playoffs, then had a great run. This team will again have to fight and claw to squeak into the playoffs. The offense just isn’t deep enough to give them any margin.

By: aleskel

aleskel — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:18:49 +0000

Beltran OPS, 2007: .276/.353/.525 (.878)

Beltran OPS, Sept./Oct. 2007: .282/.328/.555 (.882)

These are not the droids you are looking for

By: aleskel

aleskel — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:12:40 +0000

position and home ballpark matter – by Baseball Reference’s WAR, Kemp is right now leading the NL with 6.6 (6.3 batting, 0.3 defense); Upton is at 3.8 (4.0 batting, – 0.2 defense), which isn’t even in the top 10 in the NL.

By: spindervish

spindervish — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:08:51 +0000

Yeah, that career 1.302 postseason OPS is pretty un-clutch.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:53:07 +0000

LOL!! I was just talking to a very smart Mets fan I work with and we were joking about how much Beltran will help the Giants in tough situations, and he said “Beltran has awesome numbers but he is as far from “clutch” as anyone I’ve seen.” And then he called him a “master of choke” .

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:37:20 +0000

Kemp for MOP and Upton for MVP.

By: lampdwellr

lampdwellr — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:28:28 +0000

Upton is pretty similar to Matt Kemp, right? Kemp is .321/.396/.591. Upton is .301/.378/.550 . Kemp also has more HR and SB, and is leading the NL in RBI, which people seem to care about, and plays CF rather than RF.

Kemp is just better this year, though since pennants appear to matter to people I guess Upton has a shot.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:16:29 +0000

I am sure I will get a thousand thumbs downs for this, but it has to be said…The Giants picked up one of the three Choke-sketeers(Along with Wright and Reyes, he was part of the biggest choke in the HISTORY of baseball in 2007) and they have choked since. Now, that’s just a fact. You want to tell me Beltran was the best player on that 2007 team. OK. You want to tell me he had nothing to do with them choking a 7 game lead with 17 games left in the season. OK. But if the Giants don’t make the playoffs, it might just come down to one thing…Beltran.

Let the thumbing down commence!!!!!!!!!

By: ja4ed

ja4ed — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:14:39 +0000

Justin Upton = MVP?

By: parlorboss

parlorboss — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:09:30 +0000

The ace’s name is Ian Kennedy, although Daniel Hudson is right behind him.

By: RK

RK — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:57:14 +0000

SF shouldn’t be too difficult to contend with considering their unfortunate All-Star DL.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:45:49 +0000

And then the Giants get 4 straight against Philly. They’ll get to miss Roy H. though…..

By: crispybasil

crispybasil — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:44:09 +0000

It’s obvious that Willie Bloomquist has willed the team to first place.

By: bleedgreen

bleedgreen — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:29:52 +0000

I guess Beltran was the missing piece for the Giants, huh?

By: shaggylocks

shaggylocks — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:29:46 +0000

The D-Backs are contending! Great! Good thing they have that ace pitcher, whats-his-name. Ubaldo something-or-other. That’ll really help them down the stretch!