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Cliff Lee shuts down the Giants

Aug 5, 2011, 9:15 AM EDT

Cliff Lee

It seems like a year ago that the Giants took two of three from the Phillies in Citizens Bank Park, but it was only about a week.  For that matter it seems like ten years ago that the Giants beat the Phillies in the NLCS, but it was less than ten months.  But one thing is exactly as it seems: these are two teams heading in starkly opposite directions.

The Phillies won their seventh game in a row last night. Cliff Lee was the master of ceremonies, shutting out the Giants on seven hits. He took only 106 pitches to do it, 76 of which he threw for strikes. And of course he didn’t walk a batter. If there was any doubt that things have changed, know that Cody Ross struck out four times.

Meanwhile Hunter Pence continued his excellent play since coming over in the trade from Houston. He had three hits, a homer included, and drove in two. He’s 9-for-25 with five batted in since joining the Phillies. And of course, they haven’t lost since he arrived.

The Giants are skidding and look outmatched against Philadelphia. For that matter, so does every other team in the National League.

  1. loslonelyman - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:24 AM

    Of course the Giants looked over matched,they are in THEIR huge pitchers park. No team will ever win every game,but these Phillie’s can win in so many situations/types of games.

    • smittyaecs - Aug 5, 2011 at 3:03 PM

      That park is a band box the centerfield wall is 399 feet Philly’s is 409 I was at the game last night they dont have a pitchers park!!!!

  2. halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:27 AM

    When Cliff Lee is on, he pitches like an animal. Speaking of animals, the Vanimal pitches tonight.

  3. hank10 - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM

    So how’s that Beltran trade looking now?

    • bleedgreen - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:32 AM

      Thats what I was saying. They’re what? 2-6 since getting him?

      • hank10 - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:38 AM

        Since the trade (touted as the greatest thing since toast by some pundits) he is: 8 for 30, 6K, 0HR, 2RBI

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:40 AM

      small samples sizes will do you no good.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:42 AM

        Small samples sizes…, of cake or pie?

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:05 AM

        Except this one game, which proves once and for all that the Phillies are better than the Giants. Because we didn’t know that out of spring training.

        Ridiculous.

    • cktai - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:16 AM

      That reminds me of the Rockies commentators who were saying that Pence had trouble adjusting to Philadelphia and the pressure of playing for a contender seeing how he hit only 3 for 14 with 1 RBI after joining the Phillies.

      If one regular season game can alter your opinion of a trade (like Pence did with two doubles and a walk) you have judged too early.

      • bleedgreen - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:19 AM

        Regardless of Pence’s performance individually, you can’t argue that the offense has been much more potent since he got there. The same can not be said of Beltran and the Giants. At least not yet.

      • cktai - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:32 AM

        I could argue that actually. Since Pence joined, the Phillies scored 33 in 6 games, which is 5.6 runs per game. In the 20 games before Pence joined, the Phillies scored 112, which incidently is 5.6 runs per game.

        Look I am very happy that Pence joined, he is a huge upgrade over Brown or Ibanez this season, but you cannot judge a trade by a small number of games directly after the trade.

      • cktai - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:44 AM

        Actually make the first one 5.5 runs per game.

  4. halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:32 AM

    Cliff Lee threw his 5th shutout of the year. Last Phillie to do that…Hall of Famer Steve Carlton, in 1982.

    How about that!

  5. illcomm - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:50 AM

    the big.sample size from this year shows heyward is a bumm

    • Alex K - Aug 5, 2011 at 9:53 AM

      The large sample size of your comments shows you are a troll.

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:03 AM

      The small sample size of your commentary shows you have trouble grasping capitalization, where sentences end, and the use of the letter ‘m’.

  6. macjacmccoy - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:00 AM

    Pence is over rated

    • macjacmccoy - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:01 AM

      ^^^^ Sarcasm

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:12 AM

        Well it shouldn’t be. Pence really is overrated.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM

        JBerardi,

        Pence is overrated? What’s your definition of overrated? How is a guy hitting .311 with 12hr and 67 RBIs overrated? Lifetime .291 hitter.

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:54 AM

        “How is a guy hitting .311 with 12hr and 67 RBIs overrated? Lifetime .291 hitter.”

        How? It probably has a lot to do with people focusing on superficial stats like batting average and RBIs…

      • emoser - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:07 AM

        I agreed, JBerardi. When was the last time that a hitter driving in the guy on second or third helped a team win the game? RBIs are completely useless.

        (^^^^ Sarcasm)

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:08 AM

        JBerardi,

        Just out of curiosity, and this is not meant as an insult, but do you base all of your determination of a player’s worth on Sabermetrics alone? Are you a fantasy league guy?

      • spindervish - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:49 AM

        For God’s sake, stop trying to make this ridiculous connection between advanced metrics and fantasy baseball. WAR is not gonna help you win most fantasy leagues. They’re usually based on traditional stats. Thus, the way you seem to overvalue things like BA and RBI is much more reflective of a “fantasy league guy” mindset than JB’s analytical tendencies.

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:49 AM

        “Just out of curiosity, and this is not meant as an insult, but do you base all of your determination of a player’s worth on Sabermetrics alone? Are you a fantasy league guy?”

        Do you? It’s not like you’ve given me a scouting report on the guy. You told me his batting average and his RBIs, which, last I checked, are statistics.

        Are you a scout? Do you time Pence down the first base line? How do you rate his batspeed? Does he generate a lot of backspin/loft, or is he more of a line drive guy? How does he handle plus fastballs? Breaking balls from righties? Changeups from lefties?

        I don’t know the answers to these questions. I don’t think you know them either. We’re both just going on statistics. So what makes yours valid and mine silly?

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:00 PM

        JBerardi,

        Here’s my beef. It seems you and other people on a daily basis want to critique what Phillies players are doing with your use of “advanced metrics” to support why you believe a particular Phillies play is bad. We talk about the game the pliayer had the niught before. What does all of these advanced metrics have to do with one game? I just don’t get it. We’re talking about the game at hand, not the cumulative season. Honestly, why do you care weather or not people overrate Pence or that Ryan Howard is not great? Really.

        spindervish,

        WAR, advanced metrics, sabermetrics, whatever you want to call it, do not belong in a casual baseball conversation. I don’t care to use those concepts as they do not add to my enjoyment of the game. People that tell me that homeruns and RBI’s mean nothing are not in the same universe as my line of thought. This is just my opinion.

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:07 PM

        “Honestly, why do you care weather or not people overrate Pence or that Ryan Howard is not great?”

        Well if this stuff isn’t worth caring about, why are you engaging me in this conversation? Why discuss baseball at all? Why have Hardball Talk? Why did you beg back into this place after you got banned? Perhaps most importantly, why are you moving the goalposts here instead of responding to my actual points?

        “I don’t care to use those concepts as they do not add to my enjoyment of the game.”

        Well, they do add to my enjoyment of the game. Deal with it.

      • spindervish - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM

        Yeah, I got that. That still doesn’t excuse your repeated attempts to dismissively label people with an interest in advanced statistical analysis as “fantasy guys.” It’s just wrong.

        Also, I don’t think advanced stat-types would ever tell you home runs are meaningless. Home runs are awesome. RBI are overrated. The fact that you conflate the two is frustrating.

        And stop stealing uyf’s lines.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:16 PM

        “Why did you beg back into this place after you got banned?”

        It wasn’t to talk with the likes of you. It wanted to talk to fellow Phillies fans that I respect that watch the game like me. It seems to me that you have an obvious hatred for the Phillies based on your comments, especially today in this thread. Which is fine. That’s your opinion. I will make sure not to respond to you in the future because we have vastly different views on baseball. That will solve the issue.

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 1:39 PM

        “It wasn’t to talk with the likes of you.”

        Who’s holding the gun to your head?

      • dwil12 - Aug 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM

        jberardi

        RBI’s may be an over rated stat only because it could just be someone just getting up the most with runners on. however a players avg w/ RISP is the best way to look at how well of a run producer they are. pence is batting .339 this year with RISP. that doesnt sound too over rated to me. and avg. isnt an over rated stat because it actually does matter how often a guy gets on base because he hit the ball

    • philsfan1 - Aug 8, 2011 at 6:53 PM

      Must be a met, brave, yankee, giant, or red sox fan. I think I covered the pretenders and wannabes.

  7. gallaghedj311 - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:00 AM

    It’s still hard for me to fall in love with the phillies. Ive always ripped the Yankees and red sox for “buying players” with trot absurd payroll. Now my team does it and I have to look the other way? I feel like a hypocrite. Or like that dirty tramp from Monday nite, can’t remember her name. But I feel dirty, nonetheless….

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM

      Are you kidding? This is the greatest era in Phillies history and you feel bad because the team is spending? Get into it and embrace it! The reason the team is able to get all of these great players is because the Phillies fans come out in droves and sell that ballpark out every night, 180 straight sellouts and climbing. They support the team all across the country. They buy the right players because of great fan support. Feel clean, not dirty.

    • macjacmccoy - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:10 AM

      if you really think about it they havent really bought any players except Lee. Yes they have a huge salary but most of their guys are home grown or brought over through trades. Lee is really the only superstar they went out and got through free agency. And if want to go further they paid below market value for him. Unlike the Sox and Yankees who usually go out and out pace the field so they can get their players.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:01 AM

        Unlike the Sox and Yankees who usually go out and out pace the field so they can get their players

        The Yanks have two position players not acquired via trade/farm system. The idea they go out and buy everyone is as outdated as it is cliched.

      • mercyflush - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:39 PM

        Arod doesnt count as a trade in my eyes. Only the Yankees could have given him the contract that he currently has. Even the original crazy contract from the rangers proved too much for them.

        Also, most of the rotation were acquired as free agents, including their #1 and #2, as well as their setup man.

        the Yankees didnt make the postseason in 2008. in the offseason they spent over $400 million on Free Agents. in 2009 they won the World Series.

        They currently have the #1 payroll by a significant margin (over $30 million).

        It’s not a cliche. It’s a fact.

    • hank10 - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:17 AM

      Who on the Phillies’s roster, other than Lee and Ibanez, were high-priced FA acquisitions? Polanco’s FA salary is not excessive. Bulk of their money is tied up in home-grown talent, or from trades. Big, big difference from just buying players via Free Agency.

    • FC - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:15 AM

      Since I never hated the Yankies or the Redsox for it I have no reason to feel dirty. Besides MLB has managed to make things “competitive” in the post-season by making it a crap shoot with the NLDS + NLCS schedule weirdness. Oh and Selig will just increase the random by adding another WC team with yet another short all-or-nothing series. Hey the Mariners have won 5 of 7 lately, if they managed to do that in a post-season series they’d be great right?

    • kellyb9 - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM

      There’s a difference between buying a team and building a team. For the most part, the Phillies have built their team by giving up, in some cases, future or current major league talent. They have essentially done what the Pirates and the Indians did although the Phillies can sustain a higher payroll at this time. The Phillies have the team that Phillies fans DESERVE for selling out their stadium every single night.

    • professor59 - Aug 5, 2011 at 2:54 PM

      Do Yankees fans feel dirty about winning 27 World Series? Do Red Sox fans feel dirty? I bet they feel a lot better than the fans of the teams that tried to spend just as much but didn’t get the wins, like the Angels, Cubs, Orioles, Mets and the like.

      It was not so long ago that the Phillies were sitting on about 70 consecutive years of noncompetitive, non-spending ownership. They may have gone over the edge with some of these contracts, and the spending is certainly unsustainable, but I’ll remember this era for the results. I lived too many years of watching my team get eliminated in July, thanks.

      If this was New York, we wouldn’t have had to choose between keeping Werth and getting Lee. And next year, we’ll have to choose between Rollins and Hamels. There is still a line here between spending up to the luxury tax and just plain insane spending. I hope management keeps making smart decisions, but meanwhile, I’ll enjoy the excitement of winning two of every three instead of vice versa.

  8. 12strikes - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:09 AM

    “…look outmatched against Philadelphia. For that matter, so does every other team in the National League.”

    And as much as you may not want to admit it in your power rankings, the American League also.

    • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:20 AM

      The Phillies would be in third place in the AL East.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:24 AM

        Really? Care to expound on that?

      • cur68 - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:29 AM

        JB are you trolling? That statement is nearly indefensible. Its the NL East not AL Beast they play in. With that rotation they should be in the lead. And they are.

      • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:29 AM

        I think you mean the Phillies would have a 3.5 game lead if they were in the AL East b/c they have the best record in baseball.

      • cur68 - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM

        El Bravo, they’d be playing against DH’s in the AL. They’d then have to face the greatest DH in all of baseball, Jorge Posada. That’d knock ‘em back a bit.

      • kellyb9 - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:23 AM

        Giants > AL last year
        Phillies > Giants this year
        Therefore, the Phillies > AL this year

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:25 AM

        “JB are you trolling? That statement is nearly indefensible. Its the NL East not AL Beast they play in. With that rotation they should be in the lead. And they are.”

        In fairness, they could very well be in first place right now if they played in the AL East. It would be a close race for sure. But I still think they’d be the third best team in the division. Indefensible? The math supports it: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/standings/

        Are BP’s adjusted standings the be-all, end-all arbiter of baseball quality? Certainly not. But when I’m being accused of trolling, I think it’s worth pointing out that there’s legitimate statistical evidence from a highly respect source that supports what I’m saying here.

      • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:33 AM

        I hear where you’re coming from Berardi, but I just can’t agree. I, a Phillies hater, think they are better than the Red Sox, which makes them number one in the MLB.

      • cur68 - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:08 PM

        Ok JB, I looked at the numbers. You could be right. I shall erase the mental image of you with your knuckles dragging the ground. Anyone have a q-tip?

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:19 PM

        “I, a Phillies hater, think they are better than the Red Sox, which makes them number one in the MLB.”

        Ok. I don’t hate the Phillies whatsoever, but I think you’re wrong. Starting rotations aren’t everything.

      • 12strikes - Aug 5, 2011 at 1:41 PM

        Yea…. Just ask the Rangers from last year’s WS…. Oh Wait… Bad example.

      • philsfan1 - Aug 8, 2011 at 6:55 PM

        What are you smokin’ dude?

  9. illcomm - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:14 AM

    Let’s all stand and clap and say ” BRAVO” for the .223 average that Grammar teacher Heyward is batting for the season.

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:21 AM

      The word “grammar” shouldn’t be capitalized unless it begins a sentence. Speaking of clap, you irritate these comments boards just like a bad case of said slang term for a certain VD.

  10. bleedgreen - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:30 AM

    I’m reserving judgment about the Giants vs Phillies until the series is over. They were outmatched last year in the playoffs by the Phillies starters too… and still won. We should have scored more than 3 runs off of Bumgarner, plain and simple. You can’t load the bases and then not score in the first inning at all. That game could have just as easily been a 5-3 phillies loss if Polanco misses 1 or 2 of those bullets hit in his direction or if Howard fails to scoop up a ball out of the dirt.

    • prionogenic - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:39 AM

      That’s baseball–lots of if’s. What did happen, Lee pitched a CG SHO, Phillies score 2 more runs than they needed to win

      • bleedgreen - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:11 AM

        I agree. I’m just not ready to say that the Phils outmatched them completely. This wasn’t a domination or a blowout really. If you say a team had 7 hits and their opponent scored 3 runs, you don’t automatically assume that the team with 3 runs won. If it was 9-0 then yeah, clearly outmatched.

  11. gogigantos - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:30 AM

    1 of 162, Lee was tough,, MadBum was pretty tough too.
    Fully expect this group of Giants to get it together and squeak out the West on the last weekend. Nothing easy with a new bunch of bats and maybe one too many ooold ones. Do expect them to get it done,, and,, well,,
    Really really really looking forward to October, come what may then is all good.

    • mercyflush - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:53 AM

      I’m a Phillies fan and I agree with this here Giants fan ^^^^^^

      the Phillies won a series against the Gmen at CBP last August too. (not that the current series is over). Then the Giants did what they did in the playoffs.

      I’ll reserve judgement on the Phils-Giants rivalry until one of the teams is no longer playing.

  12. illcomm - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:34 AM

    All of this and Heyward is still batting .223. Oh, and I might add, riding the pine too.

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:38 AM

      I think we all understand that Jason Heyward is having a tough season. You’ve mentioned this (3) times in this thread. Care to state anything else, or is this all you can add to the discussion?

    • seanmk - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM

      you are complaining about an injured player. if you are telling me you would not want to buy stock in heyward, by all means do that, your prerogative. But be prepared to eat crow.

      • mercyflush - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:54 AM

        Actually, I would not buy stock in Heyward. He’s the Greg Oden of MLB.

        but, that’s neither here nor there…

      • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:37 AM

        If you could actually buy stock in baseball players, I’d put my life savings into Heyward right now. It’d be like buying a crapload of Apple stock in 1998.

      • mercyflush - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:41 PM

        Let me know the next time Heyward plays a full season of professional ball. It will also be the first time.

  13. illcomm - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:36 AM

    Good point on the AL east Grammar teacher.

    • Mr. Jason "El Bravo" Heyward - Aug 5, 2011 at 10:42 AM

      I’m here to help. Yes, Heyward is having a bad season. You got him pegged. He’s not a bum though by any stretch.

      • professor59 - Aug 5, 2011 at 3:01 PM

        Not a bum, no. He’s still very young. But it would look good for him if he had at least one hot streak this season before he goes into next spring with the dreaded “overrated” tag.

        Um, except not against my Phillies. He can beat up the Mets and Marlins all he wants.

  14. philly56 - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:03 AM

    You would think those four strikeouts would wipe that weird grin off Cody’s face, but nope. I thought that was his happy face but it’s apparently his every emotion face.

  15. hateradeonrocks - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:16 AM

    RBI’s are overrated if you look at the leaderboard the RBI leaders are all bad players. Oh wait. RBI’s are now underrated as they are more important than any other stat. OBP ISO and all that other worthless crap contributes absolutely 0 to the scoreboard. Walking is also overrated your cleanup hitter is there to hit the ball not walk.

    • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:43 AM

      “Oh wait. RBI’s are now underrated as they are more important than any other stat. OBP ISO and all that other worthless crap contributes absolutely 0 to the scoreboard.”

      Saying that OBP doesn’t contribute to run scoring is like saying rain doesn’t contribute to water. They are one and the same. You can’t score a run without a man on base. It’s such a blatantly counter-factual statement that I don’t really even know how to address it.

  16. APBA Guy - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM

    I watched the game last night, as there was no A’s game (travel day). Great to see all those strikes thrown, amazing how Giants hitters, other than Sandoval, will swing at anything.

    But one thing not mentioned, it was 59 and humid last night, thick marine layer. Pence’s HR was incredibly long for AT&T’s left field. Then Mayberry followed up with one nearly as long. That NEVER happens in AT&T. It’s a big park, we all know that. Also keep in mind the heavy air. To drill through that and get 10 rows up in left is a blast, to go further than that like Pence did is truly impressive.

    Mike Krukow, the Giants color guy who is also very good, had Bumgardner pegged after about 4 pitches in the first inning. “He can’t live up there” meaning he had to get the ball down to knee level. Which he failed to do though he escaped damage in the first with a bad out call on the attempted steal of third (very close play) followed by a DP. Then the two homeruns, then he got the ball down in the third through the 8th.

    But Krukow also said it best when comparing the two lefties, calling Lee “the finished product” and Bumgardner a “work in progress” in the pre-game.

    And that was exactly what we saw.

    As an American league fan, my natural instinct is to say that the Giants look overanxious, and need to work the count, etc.. But full credit to the Phightin’s. The whole team is the finished product.

    • professor59 - Aug 5, 2011 at 3:04 PM

      Hitters will start to get over-anxious when they realize the ump has a huge strike zone like last night.

      Not to take away from the good pitching, of course, because Lee was really painting the corners. But there were a lot of angry Giants muttering their way back the dugout, some with good reason.

  17. phillyphan975 - Aug 5, 2011 at 11:51 AM

    I get the stats, the past, the “size of the ball park”, the DH, the trades I get all of this plus all of those with valid opinions…

    The skinny on this series is it is just another series… If either team hangs their hat on this series it is just asinine. It is just another series. There is blood b/c of last years NLCS and because of the 2/3 the Giants took from us at CBP a week ago…The bottom line it is business as usual and they have a series they are trying to win.

    The Phillies, as of Aug 5th, are the best team in baseball. If you love the Yankess, Braves, Sox, Giants or Royals you can not disagree with this. This is the time of year to worry about getting healthy and building momentum, not worrying about what your record should be in another division, not worrying about what kind of park you are in, and not worrying about the past…

    The Phillies have not only been in first in their division at the conclusion of every month, but also had the best record in the league (go ahead I dare you to Google it)… If this keeps up it is hard to argue what they are… However, the argument can then be made come playoff time if we (the Phillies) falter to the Giants, Braves or whatever team survives that dismal NL Central (I say Brewers)…

    So opinions are great and valued, but people get so heated when someone has their own opinion… PS to the Giants fans, I am not being a ball buster, but you better stop worrying about playing the Phillies in the NLCS in 2011 and worry about winning your division first….

    • gogigantos - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM

      not really worried, believe taking the division will be a chore done come the end, ne bats and ooooold,, come October,, maybe you all should sweat a bit about a rematch,, :) really really really looking forward to how it all unfolds

  18. jonirocit - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:24 PM

    Let’s not start sucking off the phillies just yet . Hell my 8 th grade sister could shut out this giants line up . Bam bam my ass …. More like ping ping . It’s almost all on the bats but dude needs to go he can’t control his hitters.

  19. citynative - Aug 5, 2011 at 12:42 PM

    Why is Philly insecure in general?

    • JBerardi - Aug 5, 2011 at 1:42 PM

      It’s a mystery. Apparently I hate them because I rank them as low as third overall.

    • loungefly74 - Aug 9, 2011 at 8:40 AM

      ha! you are right about that. i mean, read these comments! jeez…they are playing the “scorned dumped ex-girlfriend role” perfectly. well, i guess that’s expected after losing to the World Champion SF Giants. Phillies are a great team, so are the Giants. Right now, the Giants have had the last laugh and philly fans hate it and they can’t do nothing about it till the post season.

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