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Charlie Manuel says Shane Victorino had to fight “unless he wants his teammates to call him chicken”

Aug 6, 2011, 1:48 PM EDT

Shane Victorino, Mike Muchlinski,Ramon Ramirez

Todd Zolecki of got some good quotes about last night’s Phillies-Giants scuffle from Shane Victorino, Placido Polanco, and manager Charlie Manuel.

For starters, Manuel said that Victorino “almost has to” charge the mound when Ramon Ramirez plunked him “unless he wants his teammates to call him chicken” because “he hit Vic and then came off the mound at him … that’s the way baseball works. I’ve been playing for almost 50 years. He pretty much called him out.”

Victorino told Zolecki that he “absolutely” believes Ramirez intentionally hit him with the pitch that started it all, saying:

That’s why I took a step forward. I had no intentions of going out there and charging the mound. I just wanted to know why in that situation … he was around the plate all night and throughout that inning … obviously with two outs and I get up to the plate and the first pitch is at my back.

I just wanted to go out there and get an answer. I had no intentions of charging the mound. I did step forward. Obviously, Eli [Whiteside], I guess from looking at his reaction, thought I was going to go and he started jumping around. Obviously, Polanco came in and he tackled Polanco. I think everything escalated from there.

“I just wanted to go out there and get an answer” strikes me as a pretty hilarious explanation of Victorino’s reaction, but regardless of his initial intentions the decision to rush back into the scrum after being held back by various people, including an umpire, will almost surely get Victorino suspended by MLB. He explained that part by saying: “I just felt like Carlos [Ruiz] was in a position like I needed to go in and help him get away from everything.”

Meanwhile, Victorino saying that Eli Whiteside “tackled Polanco” didn’t sit well with Polanco, who told Zolecki: “He didn’t tackle me.” And he’s right, since Whiteside never actually got Polanco to the ground. I commented on Twitter at the time that Whiteside showed some good linebacker instincts, but on second thought he was acting more like a fullback making a lead block than a linebacker making a tackle. Either way, not bad for someone who looks like a middle-aged insurance salesman.

Victorino, Polanco, Ruiz, and Whiteside are all in the lineup for today’s game, which starts in a couple hours.

  1. cktai - Aug 6, 2011 at 1:51 PM

    What rubbish. Utley gets hit all the time without charging, I doubt they call him chicken.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 6, 2011 at 1:56 PM

      True…the first part of Charlie’s quote that wasn’t included above said something to the effect that Ramirez stepped off the mound towards Victorino and that is why, in combination with the beaning, that he “had” to charge the mound. Either way it was a pretty ridiculous comment by Charlie. Although it is hard to know when to take him seriously. Yeah, I found Victorino’s comments rather hysterical as well. Yeah, he was going to casually stroll out to the mound to request an explanation for what had happened. Utley almost charged the mound once against Sanchez….then decided to hit a HR instead.

    • clydeserra - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:30 PM

      yeah, but that is part of his game. Victorino was hit in a spot that rarely gets hit unless the pitcher is trying.

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:36 PM


      You cannot compare this situation with Utley’s propensity of getting hit by pitches. Victorino was hit on purpose. Everyone watching the game knew it, including the Phillies. Victorino had no choice but to walk towards the mound. In my opinion, he didn’t go far enough. He should have ran full force to the mound and given Ramirez a good beating from the start.

      Victorino, to save face with his teammates and self, had no choice but to fight. Charlie is right. He would have been a chicken if he didn’t.

  2. gaels1997 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:11 PM

    Yeah cause Utley planned that. little Utley ran into one with good timing…he’s hardly Hank Aaron or Reggie Jackson

    • Old Phaithful - Aug 6, 2011 at 9:55 PM

      Don’t feed the trolls

  3. spudchukar - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:12 PM

    You call yourself the Phightens’ and that’s all you got?

  4. jazz607 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:25 PM

    I understand the Giants intentions, especially after being dominated the first two games at home!

  5. okwhitefalcon - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:25 PM

    “That’s the way baseball works. I’ve been playing for almost 50 years. He pretty much called him out”.

    Charlie’s awesome, he get’s it.

    “There’s no school like the old school and I’m f’n headmaster” – From the classic movie “Rocknrolla”

  6. phillybilly57 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:33 PM

    hey spudchukar, their called the fightins cause they play hard,they play fair, and when they get beat they accept it and try to beat u the next day,the giants on the other hand were embarrased in front of their fans,were outplayed,and acted like a 10 year old when he doesn’t get his way he takes his ball home

    • spudchukar - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:43 PM

      William Pen, like I always say if you want to models of professionalism all you have to do is go to Philadelphia.

      • spudchukar - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:50 PM

        *er, delete the “to” please.

    • dirtyharry1971 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:50 PM

      where i come from they are called the punks cause they have 2 lousy championships in the history of their franchise. Try winning a few before cocking off, typical phillie scum

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:57 PM

        Ah, it wouldn’t be a complete Saturday afternoon unless dirtyharry shows up and trashes the Phillies. Dirtyharry, how are you today?

  7. rjmarrella - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:36 PM

    Both team’s get style points for being tough. There is nothing better than two contenders hating one another. Phillies fans are scared of the Giants.

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:40 PM

      Phillies fans are scared of the Giants? Not really. I don’t think many fan bases are scared of that woeful lineup that the Giants put out on the field every night. Were not talking about the 27′ Yankees.

  8. timasahh - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:43 PM

    Victorino and Whiteside shouldn’t be in the game. Don’t tell me baseball is that bad with replays that they can’t even watch tape after the fact.

    And as bias as I may be for saying it I believe that Victorino wasn’t going to charge. He casually walked towards the pitcher and didn’t look like he was going to fight until Whiteside looked like he was trying to tackle Polanco. Victorino’s had some other ugly moments with pitchers but he doesn’t brawl, which is why I think he was telling the truth. In the playoffs against the Dodgers a few years back they threw at his head and he started mouthing off to the pitcher, but he didn’t charge and had no intention of doing so. No reason for me to think that wasn’t the case here. Things seemed okay until Polanco met Whiteside and then everything went insane when the benches cleared.

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:47 PM

      “Victorino and Whiteside shouldn’t be in the game. Don’t tell me baseball is that bad with replays that they can’t even watch tape after the fact.”

      The commisioners office will not review/rule until Monday. It’s a weekend thing. In addition, once player suspensions are layed down, the players always have the right to appeal.

      • timasahh - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:49 PM

        Never knew that. Thanks for the info.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:52 PM

        No problem.

      • Old Phaithful - Aug 6, 2011 at 10:00 PM

        I’m hoping that Vic sits out on the series against the Diamond Backs. Poetic Justice! We can afford a couple of games that the Giants can’t.

  9. dwil12 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:48 PM

    charlie was joking. its amazing how athletes and coaches cant even joke anymore without people taking their comments out of context

  10. kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:50 PM

    i’m sorry biceps that your own homer tinted sunglasses prevents you from seeing that victorino is a dirty player and an asshole, if the other 15 teams and their fans can see it, you would think that you could be honest with yourself about it

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:53 PM

      Dirty player? Tell me what he’s done over his career to make him a dirty player?

      • clydeserra - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM

        A lot.

        He regularly swipes at defenders when he on the bases. I linked to some pictures in the other thread, but my comment seems to be taken down.

  11. kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:53 PM

    and as far as that “woeful” lineup, remember that is pretty much the same woeful lineup that did just enough to win last october……….i respect the heck outta the phils as great team, but to downplay the giants as not up to you standard is just stupid

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM

      Look at their runs scored this year and compare their lineup to the Phillies 1-8 position players. Can you honestly tell me the Giants are near as good as the Phillies?

  12. thefalcon123 - Aug 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM

    This says a lot about the constant peer pressure in the Phillies dugout. First, they cause you to start fight, and before you it, Victorino will be smoking drugs. It’s a slippery slope.

    • kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:17 PM

      No kidding are there common phrases in the clubhouse like “if you loved me you’d do it” or “whats wrong? everybody is doing it”

  13. kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:03 PM

    biceps, submitted for your viewing/reading pleasure:

    and say what you want about the Giants lineup, it is still pretty much the same lineup that beat you last october, don’t doubt that I give Philadelphia all the credit in the world, from the word go this season they have been the best team in baseball, I’m just saying it is amateur and unintelligent to put down the Giants as a bad team when they lead their division and they are the defending champs, are they going through a rough patch right now? Yes. does that mean they are a terrible team all of a sudden? No. face it these two great teams will probably meet again in October and it is because of just that, they are great teams

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:32 PM

      Those pictures that you posted show what players do all the time, which is to break up double plays, etc. That’s not dirty play. That’s smart baseball. Anyone who’s watched baseball for years will tell you that. Dirty players are guys who will throw their spikes into your legs and try to intentionally hurt another player. Victorino never does that.

      It’s seems to me that you have a complex issue with your team and how they are viewed. The Giants are a good team. I would not call them great because they are one dimensional. Their pitching is great but their offense leaves a lot to be desired. The Phillies are a great team. They have great pitching and great offense/defense. That’s what separates both teams.

      • clydeserra - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:34 PM

        if they are what players do all the time, post the pictures of the other players grabbing feet and crotches.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:37 PM


        I don’t need to post pictures of other players doing it because I have been watching baseball for over 30 years and have seen it so often, it’s a given. It’s part of the game.

      • clydeserra - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:53 PM

        I have been watching baseball for that long too. And yes, take out slide used to be much dirtier, which is why they changed the rules.

        Also, I take it from your lack of pictures you are conceding that modern players don’t do what victorino does.

      • dirtyharry1971 - Aug 6, 2011 at 5:08 PM

        victorino is a punk and before we start calling the phillies great can they win a few championships first? Whatcha say?

      • cleverbob - Aug 6, 2011 at 5:41 PM

        Shane Victorino certainly doesn’t have the monopoly on slides like that, all you have to do is google image search to come up with gems such as these…

        and classic from a few years back

      • clydeserra - Aug 6, 2011 at 10:10 PM

        I don’t see the similarity between the clever bob slides and victorino’s.

      • cleverbob - Aug 7, 2011 at 9:45 AM

        Sorry, should have founds pictures with arrows to or circles around the players’ crotches…

  14. ditto65 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM

    Charlie is an idiot. The Phillies win in spite of him.

    • kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:10 PM

      Nope, Charlie Manel is a high quality manager, people don’t get to the top of their profession, especially in managing/coaching, because they are idiots, but through all of this remember he is no better than Bruce Bochy, everyone of them orders dumbass crap like this because of their dumbass “unwritten rules,” if I ever have to stand before a judge, I’m going to explain to him about my “unwritten” rules and see how that flies, baseball is not a macho game, they wear tight ass pants and throw a ball around and swing a stick at it, now it is one helluva enjoyable mental game, but far from macho, so they need to cut their tough guy bullshit

    • bigxrob - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:36 PM

      That ridiculous comment qualifies you as the idiot of the day, congratulations.

      • ditto65 - Aug 6, 2011 at 4:08 PM

        Comingfrom you it is a compliment.

  15. halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:15 PM

    “baseball is not a macho game, they wear tight ass pants and throw a ball around”

    I guess football isn’t a macho game either, being that they also wear tight ass pants and throw a ball around as well.

    You are a genius.

    • kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:19 PM

      Yah, but they also hit each other like freight trucks, I can’t believe you just tried to compare the physicality of baseball to football, smh

      • kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:23 PM

        *correction: the physicality of football to baseball

      • buckbrennan - Aug 6, 2011 at 6:47 PM

        hit like freight trucks? ha thats laughable, since the pads cushion most of the blow..the only time it hurts getting hit in football is helmet to helmet…but its true baseball to football isnt comparable…thankfully i found rugby and ive loved it ever since..although i still like football it doesnt compare to rugby

  16. gammagammahey - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:16 PM

    Next offseason, Shane’s going to be driving down the street minding his own business when a car carrying Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Hunter Pence, and Brad Lidge is gonna pull up next to him and challenge him to a drag race. Shane’s not going to want to do it but they’ll call him a chicken so he’ll have no choice. Next thing you know, he’s t-boning a Rolls Royce, hurts his hand, and his career’s over. He’ll always wonder how his life would have turned out if he could just handle being called a chicken better.

  17. kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:39 PM

    trying to make a guy go face first into the ground is good baseball? you break it up with your slide, not grabbing ankles or another mans junk, like i said the fans of 15 other teams believe the same thing, so it is what it is, and i don’t have a complex about my team, i know what they are, superb pitching and lackluster offense, but thats why we have october to sort it out, the season series is now tied at 3 apiece, its gonna be fun going forward, i give amaro credit his attempts at his best cashman imitation has been unbelievable for the phils

    • bigxrob - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:44 PM

      Don’t be bitter b/c he is a better GM than Sabean

      • kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM

        I’m not bitter one bit, I like Sabean as a GM, I wasn’t saying anything against Amaro at all, just because I insinuated that the Phillies are becoming the Yankees of the National League is not a knock on Amaro’s ability, the ownership and GM understand that they have a veteran team with a closing window, they’ve done what they’ve had to do, what is it with Phillies fans continuously taking pot shots at the Giants? who has the complex here? the only negative thing I have directed towards the Phils is the fact that Victorino is a dirty player

  18. cintiphil - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:42 PM

    Charlie is from the old school just like LaRussa and Baker. These guys know how the game should be played and how to stand up for your team and fight for position in certain situations. The one here, is never be intimidated by anyone or you are done. they will do it every time, and that is the point of the statement Charlie made. Very plain and simple but effective.

    • cintiphil - Aug 6, 2011 at 3:45 PM

      I almost forgot to say, this is going to be an interesting end of the season.

  19. kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM

    Biceps, I love the banter, I visit this site multiple times a day, but very rarely chime in, your comments always prove to be entertaining, good luck with your team the rest of the year, hopefully we have a good reason to pick this back up in October

  20. lanflfan - Aug 6, 2011 at 4:59 PM

    You never “have to fight”, however I would never begrudge Victorino’s right to charge the mound if he felt he needed to. The HBP appeared intentional to me too, and I see nothing wrong with verbally challenging Ramirez. Whiteside hopping up and down like a dam fool certainly looked like he was trying to incite Victorino as well.

    But the Ragin’ Hawaiian going back into the scrum after calming down was over the top.

  21. gallaghedj311 - Aug 6, 2011 at 6:12 PM

    This is the first time I’ve ever heard Victorino being dirty. I didn’t bother clicking any links since a handful of photos is hardly evidence of someone being dirty. Photos are deceiving and that douche is simply being a hater. I dialed in to sf sports talk radio today to get the opposite perspective. Didnt hear them talk about it either. Nor have I heard it discussed on NY baltimore or DC radio either…

  22. halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 6:31 PM

    Great pitching, Cole. That’s what aces do. Quiet the bats of your opponent while facing a good pitcher in Cain. 2 hrs. 14 mins. Fast game.

    Ace #4 goes tomorrow. Sweep sweep!!

    • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 6, 2011 at 6:49 PM

      Indeed. Hey, biceps….Phillies optioned Perez to AAA to make room for Oswalt. Also, they DFA’d Scott Mathieson to create room on the 40 man roster. My guess is that you get your wish and Schwimmer is added to the 40 man and probably called up whenever Victorino is done with his suspension. It appears as though the fight might have given Ben Francisco another week with the big club.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 6:56 PM

        Yeah, I heard about the roster moves. As far as the suspension goes, my guess is that Victorino will receive 4-5 games. I think any more would be a bit excessive. I agree with the Ben Francisco thing. I think his days were numbered when they traded for Pence.

        Maybe we can put Francisco in a package in the off season and send him back to Cleveland for Ubaldo?

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 6, 2011 at 6:57 PM

        Sorry to get your hopes up, but it Gelb is reporting that Mathieson will remain on the 40 man roster and wasn’t DFA’d. He misreported before. He is also reporting that the Polanco injury sounds serious.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 7:07 PM

        What’s wrong with Gelb? Why doesn’t he gets his facts straight before reporting? Dangers of instant internet reporting, I guess.

        Polanco injury is bad? Not good. I wonder if that scuffle with the punk last night had anything to do with it? I love that the Phillies acquired Pence. However, it’s because of Polanco’s back issues that I had wanted a veteran 3rd baseman as insurance.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 6, 2011 at 7:10 PM

        Keep in mind, that is Gelb’s reporting of the injury. He is going for an MRI and X-Ray. Polanco went on to state that he could have finished the game….so who knows. Yeah Gelb sucks. I like David Murphy, however. I think he writes some intelligent, thought out columns in addition to his regular “beat” stuff.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 6, 2011 at 7:16 PM

        Murphy is good. I like him too. I also like Todd Zolecki. The guy who I liked in the beginning but cannot stand anymore is Seth Everett. Not so much about his writing, but ever since he started doing radio for WIP. He seems to be somewhat obnoxious.

  23. kcrockett1 - Aug 6, 2011 at 7:01 PM


    “Photos are deceiving and that douche is simply being a hater.”

    Are you an adult? Is this elementary school? That is all you can do to quantify your argument? You listen to a little sports talk radio and you don’t hear it equates to me being a liar? Tell me, is Shane Victorino praise a sports talk station in D.C., Baltimore, or NY? Christ almighty son

  24. phillybilly57 - Aug 6, 2011 at 8:04 PM

    cole hamels is the giants DADDY

  25. phillybilly57 - Aug 6, 2011 at 8:44 PM

    kcrockett1 as a philly fan i could’t agree more with u that victorino is a dirty player,if u look closely at his uniform after most games,his uniform is disgusting ughh all that dirt n grime,plays the game like u n i wish we could play

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