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Ramon Ramirez on fine: “I was waiting for a suspension”

Aug 9, 2011, 10:01 AM EDT

Phillies Giants Baseball

Ramon Ramirez expected to receive a harsher punishment for his part in Friday night’s Giants-Phillies scuffle, calling his undisclosed fine “a surprise” because “I was waiting for a suspension.”

Instead the only player suspended by MLB was Shane Victorino, who’s appealing his three-game punishment that the commissioner’s office termed “aggressive actions [that] prolonged the bench-clearing incident between the clubs.”

Ramirez joined catcher Eli Whiteside and Phillies second baseman Placido Polanco is receiving fines. Whiteside told Andrew Baggarly of the San Jose Mercury News that he was also surprised to avoid a suspension, but added that “I didn’t feel I did anything wrong” and “I just went out there to protect my pitcher.”

He did admit that his attempt to tackle the charging Polanco “may have looked a little crazy jumping around out there … but my intention was to protect Ramon.” And the reason Ramon needed protecting was that he started the whole ruckus by throwing at Victorino, which is why Ramirez’s lack of a suspension is the most surprising aspect of the discipline handed down.

144 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. phrontiersman - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:07 AM

    Victorino’s suspension didn’t surprise me. You can’t set an umpire aside and rejoin the crowd like that, regardless of intent, and get away with nothing. Just doesn’t work that way.

    I don’t like the idea that you can get upset by a guy stealing – a runner that was being held at first – throw at a batter, have the catcher basically invite confrontation by hopping about and attempting a tackle, and have the batter be the only one suspended. Something doesn’t feel quite right about that.

    • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:10 AM

      If they suspend whiteside for a game, they would have to suspend Victorino for a month. His actions were that much worse. He shoved an umpire and attacked a non combatant opposing coach from behind. He’s lucky he gets to play at all the rest of the year.

      • spiffy53 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:18 AM

        hittfamily, your lack of perspective on this is scary. put the pom pom’s down. fair would have been victorino 3, ramierez 1 and whiteseide 1.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:42 AM

        Who am I rooting for? My perspective is where it should be: outside looking in. I’m the only one who sees this minus Phillies covered glasses. I have no rooting interest, and hate these situations. There was 1 thug in this brawl, and he was suspended. A proper suspension would be 1-3 game for charging, 3-5 games for shoving the umpire, 1-3 games for reigniting the calm situation, 1-3 games for not leaving the field in a timely manner, 10-50 games for attacking a non player (umpire, fan, or coach). Those are the accurate number of what others get fined for for doing each of the things Victorino did. Precedent was set, and Victorino got off lightly.

        So, fine, suspend Ramirez and Whiteside for their minor role, so long as Victorino is suspended 15 games at minimum.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:48 AM

        LOL, hittfamily. Funniest stuff I ever read. So, by your calculations, with the game amounts you add for each infraction, Victorino should be suspended for the rest of the season and maybe the first couple of weeks of the 2012 season.


      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM

        Most players who shove umpires and attack opposing coaches with their back turned are suspended more that 1.5% of the season. So…. yes I believe he should be suspended 15 games. When you add up his offenses and take the minimum suspension of each, he gets 2 weeks suspension. 3 games is a joke.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:59 AM

        Hey hitt, what the hell was the umpire doing standing in front of him anyway??? Wasn’t that Bernard Whiteside’s job??? How often do you see a guy walking out toward the mound and the CATCHER not the UMPIRE stands in front of the guy? When did the umpire become the guy who could stand there in front of Victorino? And you keep talking about this “shoving an umpire” like Shane was arguing with him when he pushed him. Jesus Christ, can’t you see past your Philly hate to realize that this situation was totally different than what you are talking about? You are being such a frigging dolt.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:08 AM

        There is no Philly hate. I like the Phils. I hate thugs. A week ago, I really liked Victorino. Then he became the first player I can remember to attempt to injure an oppsoing coach. He became the biggest thug in the league.

        Chris…calling names? You speak so highly of yourself, I thought you would be better than that. My ten year old calls people names when she can’t out wit them either.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:20 AM

        Hitt, I didn’t call you a name…I said you are being a dolt…and you are. Use your common sense…

        1) Shane just went into the pile…he didn’t go after the pitching coach. Jesus Christ, anybody with a little common sense would see that.

        2) He wasn’t shoving the umpire because he had a disagreement with the umpire. He shoved him out of his way to get to the pitcher. What you keep referring to is when a guy is arguing with an ump and makes contact with him…NOT when there is a benches clearing thing happening on the field.

        3) Thug life? Really? He just got hit with a 90+ MPH fast ball in the small of his back. I am sure he was hurting and wanted to find out what the hell he did to deserve getting plunked on purpose. That makes him a thug? Yeah, he lost his temper a couple times, but he didn’t go out and get tattoos, make a rap album, and start an East Coast/West Coast war or anything like that.

        4) It isn’t our fault your Rays are having a tough year. We Phillies fans feel your pain about the 2008 World Series and sympathize with you. That doesn’t mean you have to hate the Phillies 3 full years later and not use your common sense when dealing with this situation.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:28 AM

        You don;t have to be black to be a thug. Tattoos dont make one a thug. Rap albums don’t make one a thug. Charging into a calm crowd trying to injure anyone he can get his hands on makes Thuggerino a thug. Waiting til his teammates are on the field to have his back prior to fighting someone makes him a gutless thug.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:34 AM

        Who said anything about being black?

      • detroitfanatic - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:42 AM

        “That makes him a thug? Yeah, he lost his temper a couple times, but he didn’t go out and get tattoos, make a rap album, and start an East Coast/West Coast war or anything like that.”

        Damn Chris. That was pretty racist bro.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:47 AM

        Hold on a second…am I the only person here who remembers Tupac creating a group called “Thug Life”? Relax boys…”All Eyez on Me” is my favorite album of all time. When I think “thug” I think Tupac…not racist…he was proud to wear that label and even named his group that way. I guess things have changed quite a bit even in less than 20 short years.

      • Phillies Homer - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:48 AM

        You assuming Chris was talking about black guys makes you racist.

        White guys aren’t allowed to make rap albums and get tattoos??

        Anywho, lets keep this banter to baseball… clearly no one was trying to be racist. I’m enjoying the back and forth hitt and chris are having in this argument.

    • kopy - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:41 PM

  2. hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:08 AM

    Hitting someone in the waist is perfectly legal. Charging the mound, shoving an umpire, reigniting a situation, and tackling a coach isn’t. Simple as that. Ramirez’s offense was small. A HBP. Victorino channeled his inner Jose Offerman and cheap shotted everyone he could. Unless they wanted to suspend Victorino for a month, their hands were tied on what they could do to Giants players.

    • bleedgreen - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:13 AM

      Hitting someone on purpose is not legal. Plain and simple. Throwing your glove down and stepping off the mound towards the batter, who, admitedly did put down his bat and advance towards the pitcher with his arms in the air. However, Victorino did NOT run to the mount. There was no reason for Ramirez to throw down his glove and walk towards Victorino unless he KNEW he had done something wrong.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:48 AM

        BS. The second the batter starts towards the mound, the pitcher better be ready to fight. Victorino doesn’t get to challenge Ramirez by walking out, then changing his mind and expect Ramirez to have no reaction.

        Hitting someone on purpose is absolutely legal. Absolutely legal. Trying to injure someone isnt. A message was sent by Ramirez, no matter what kind of stupid message it was. Victorino took a ball just above his ass and acted like it was life threatening. Every pitcher in baseball has sent a message.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:04 AM

        So you don’t think intentionally hitting somebody with a 90+ fastball carries a certain risk of injury…or is attempting to injure?

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:11 AM

        I think there are over 300 hbp every year. So far, 1 has resulted in a stint to the DL. A fastball to the ass is not dangerous. Attacking an opposing coach is.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:23 AM

        Attacking an opposing coach???? Seriously you are going to spout that line??? He went into the pile of people. If that coach didn’t want to be a part of the scrum, then he shouldn’t have gotten in the middle of it. Jesus dude.

      • joaktree - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:07 PM

        hey hitt. when your 10 year old girl decides to play softball, i hope she gets hit in the head with a ball, and then i will tell you that it was perfectly LEGAL for that pitcher to hit your daughter. maybe she was crowding the plate. or maybe the other team was getting blown out. either way, your opinion is complete crap and i hope one day all this crap circles back to you.

      • Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:29 PM

        Wishing head trauma on a young girl? A tad over the line, don’t you think?

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:39 PM

        I think Joaktree has secured the obnoxious post of the day.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:56 PM

        Nice Joaktree.

        Very relevant and well thought out. I hope you are wrong.

    • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:23 AM

      A pitcher gets ejected for intentionally hitting someone in the waist. Accidentally is ok in the rules but intentional is another thing.

      I do agree that victorino 3, ramierez 1 and whiteseide 1 all should have gotten these suspensions but Polanco should have gotten a game or two for charging as well.

    • kellyb9 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:25 AM

      Whiteside can’t tackle Polanco when he doesn’t have the ball… oh wait… wrong sport. There’s a strong possibility that without Whiteside igniting the situation it may have never gone further than it did. I’m not saying Victorino shouldn’t have been suspended, but there really is no equality in this judgement if Whiteside doesn’t get AT LEAST 1 game.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:57 AM

        So the batter charges the mound, every Philly comes rushing to the pitchers mound, but it’s the catchers fault for being ready for the inevitable.

        I wonder who you are rooting for?

      • kellyb9 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:05 AM

        Charging the mound? Come on Hitt, Victorino was walking towards the mound, but I can’t really say he’s charging the mound. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have recieved a suspension, but the fact that this pitcher was suprised he didn’t recieve a suspension should be a good indication that he was expecting one.

        I mean really, I wonder what you’re rooting against. “Reason” maybe… “common sense” probably.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:07 AM

        He could have simply stood next to Polanco without tackling him. But you can’t get past your hate of the Phillies to use your common sense. And the whole Giants dugout was out there just as fast as the Phillies dugout. Whiteside escalated the situation by trying to tackle Polanco instead of just standing in front of him and blocking his path.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:22 AM

        Polanco was the first Philly there. Whteside grabbed him and held on. No injury risk, just immobilizing someone heading towards his pitcher who was walking with a purpose.

        I Dont dislike the Phils or like the Giants. I am sick of guys getting hit and making a huge deal of it. Every college in the country has a few guys who throw 90. Every high school team has someone who throws 85. People get hit all the time, they just don’t charge the mound. I am a former pitcher, so I take the pitchers side. The pitcher was willing to put a runner in scoring position to send a message. There was no risk of injury. It hit him an inch above his belt.

        Victorino could have taken his base, and played by the rules. He didn’t, then he went crazy.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:25 AM

        He grabbed him around his legs. He could have stood up, but he didn’t. And clearly, since this entire entry is that Ramirez thought he was going to be suspended, he threw at Victorino on PURPOSE, which is AGAINST THE RULES OF BASEBALL!!! So Ramirez didn’t play by the rules.

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:32 AM

        True hit. I can see being ticked off if you get hit in the head but anywhere else just take your damn base & move on.

        If you think they did it intentionally take it out on them with your play on the bases & in the field.

        I got hit once ( in the head ) & thought it was intentional. I took my base & then stole 2b, 3b & home.

        Just beat them at baseball not fights.

    • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM

      What about Sandoval’s left he threw? He thugged it up & nothing happened.

      I may be a Phils fan but like I said before Polanco should have been suspended also.

      For some reason the last two week’s any pitcher that threw intentionally at a batter got a suspension & they didn’t hit the batter. There should have at least been a 1 game suspension the knew he was breaking the rules & threw at him anyway. Ramirez even said he was surprised he wasn’t suspended.

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:23 AM

        If Victorino would have just left the area after pushing away from the umpire he may have only gotten a game or two but since he dove right into the fight he got more. Which he should have.

  3. bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:10 AM

    Ramierez should be suspended for at least a game for throwing at Victorino.

    If he didn’t plunk him nothing would have started. If they don’t it kind of send the message now that it’s ok to plunk a batter intentionally if it’s not in the area of the head.

    • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:13 AM

      Wrong. Plunking someone is absolutely legal. Jumping up and down are perfectly legal. Thug life isn’t.

      • kellyb9 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:27 AM

        @hittfamily – dude seriously, the first person to hit ANYONE was Whiteside. Open your eyes.

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:28 AM

        Like I said before hitting them because you lost control of the pitch is legal. Intentionally throwing at him isn’t If it were none of the pitchers that were suspended the last week or two would have been suspended.

        If plunking someone is legal why are pitchers getting tossed for having one \
        ” SLIP ” & knocking a batter down? He didn’t hit him. The ball just slipped & almost hit the batter in a bad area to get hit.

      • cktai - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:30 AM

        Baseball Rule 8.02 The pitcher shall not—
        (d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.

      • cktai - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:30 AM

        Baseball Rule 8.02 The pitcher shall not—
        (d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:38 AM


        Thug life? Last time I checked, Victorino doesn’t have any gun charges, drunk driving, gang banging kind of history on his record. Actually by all accounts he’s a stand up citizen.

        I mean he strikes me as a bit creepy, sure, and certainly he’s a dirty player to an extent, but whether off base of just free base, John Popper is more of a thug than this guy.

        So work on your vitirol a bit, you might live up to the expectations of purdueman or bicepts 1.0 ( though 2.0 is entertaining )

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:42 AM

        What made you come up with John Popper? Not that you are wrong, it just seems like an odd name to choose when there are so many other examples.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:04 AM

        Look up John Popper weapons charges……scary dude doc, scary dude

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:06 AM

        Oh, no I remember when he got in trouble. I was just curious as to what made you think of him right away. Was Blues Traveler on the radio this morning? Like I said, you are quite right in the context in which you brought him up, just an odd choice. I am more curious than anything.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:20 AM

        Because the notion of calling Victorino a thug is ridiculous. So I picked out someone who in real life, has charges against him that could be construed as thuggery, but would still be laughable because everyone knows that while he got popped, he’s as harmless as a chinchilla.

        It’s a lesson in molding perception to make the base argument groundless, I could have brought up 99 bars, or throwing bats at umpires, Ugeth Urbina, or Ty Cobb’s entire social life, but the Popper reference seemed fitting for my purposes.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:28 AM

        Fair enough and a wonderful explanation. Kudos for putting some thought into it.

      • phillyphan975 - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:14 PM

        HittFamily, Are you blind? My “outside looking in” opinion of your comments leads me to believe so, or you are a Giants fan, or you are a Philly hater…Either way my end conclusion is you are blind…

        Jumping up and down like you are in an MMA fight is 100% absolutely instigating…It is welcoming confrontation because it lets your opponent or anyone around know that you are ready to defend/combat. Lay off Vic you hater…it is not like he is Nigel Morgan (spelling)… He got drilled intentionally and it was clear simply by where the ball was… You are entitled to an opinion of any shape or size and I love seeing different views t situations in sports, but to be so obtuse (yeah I just went Andy Dufrain on your A$$) is just plain asinine.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:25 PM

        You go Andy Dufrane, I’ll go Al Franken.

        “You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entiltled to your own facts”.

        Victorino took a fastball to the ass, the best place a purpose pitch could be thrown. He acted as if it was life threatening. He could have taken his base. Instead, he started to charge the mound, thus causing both benches to empty. Whiteside sees 25 people heading his way, with no one between him and an angry mob. Because he waited for attackers to apporach him, that somehow makes him an instigator? He didn’t chase anybody. People came to him.

        The umpire immediately threw Ramirez out of the game, before Victorino charged. Punishment had been dealt. Victorino wanted street justice.

        Charging the mound doesn’t make Victorino a thug. Shoving an umpire and flinging himself into a pile with the intent on hurting anyone he can get his hands on makes him a thug.


        Uploaded with [URL=][/URL]

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:45 PM

        You went with Andy Dufrane. Nice Reference. I’ll go with Al Franken: “You’re entitled to your own opinion, not to your own facts.”

        Whiteside saw 25 angry men running at him. He didn’t turn and run. He didn’t chase anyone, they chased him. Yet somehow, in everyones mind but mine, the commissioner, and the rules committee, he was at fault. He is trained to protect his pitcher, and that is what he did. He didn’t throw a punch, he didn’t try to hurt anyone. He positioned himself between the batter and the pitcher, and when he saw the entire Philly bench empty and start running at him, he prepared himself to defend his pitcher.

        He did the right thing. He did the only thing. Jumping up and down didn’t cause the bench to empty. I was his reaction to the benches being empty. He was psyching himself up for a 25 on 1.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:51 PM

        Crap. The webpage timed out, so I rewrote what I said. I refreshed to make sure it didn’t actually post, and it didnt. So I retyped my thoughts, and low and behold, my original post reappears. I thumbs down myself for double posting basically the same thing twice.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:54 PM

        Hitt, now you’re being a fraud. Check the tape, I don’t believe Whiteside *ever* took a peek at any bench, seems he was ready for a toe to toe with Victorino, and could care less about the benches.

        And a second fraudalent point? You’re no longer demonizing Victorino, you’re praising ( or at least ardently defending) Whiteside.

        25 on 1 and he gets to jump up and down? You must be going all pogo stick at your terminal right now I imagine.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:55 PM

        And to top it all off, my html code was wrong, so the pic isnt embedded. I’m a screw up.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:44 PM

        Dude. To even compare me to Purdueman is way over the line. You can disagree with me on Victorino’s suspension, but don’t compare me to a guy who laughs at other peoples deaths.

      • labeastiaphillies - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:58 PM

        You do realize being hit in the back by a 90+ can result to broken bones? Getting hit by a 90+ hour ball is like being shot in the stomach by a gun and you’re wearing a bullet proof vest. I mean I don’t think he was trying to “start things up again.” It was still a scrum out there. The pitcher and catcher should of got suspended at least a game or two. I don’t even know why Polanco got fined. But that’s my opinion.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:04 PM

        Go back and read what you write pal, i’m speaking on levels of irrational and the smattered thoughts you’re putting out there put you on that kind of level, you just haven’t said something careless enough to incite yet. Neither did he for quite some time.

        You’re point on the debate isn’t all that bad, your presentation makes you out to be oafish, overly contrarian, and very dramatic in a looney tunes kind of way, just not as funny.

        Plus you quoted Al Franken, I mean jinkies, Al Franken?!?

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:41 PM

        Can’t compare him to purdueman. Purdueman was just constantly vile…..he just took it to another level that one night. Furthermore, purdueman was always on the cousin blogs being vile.

  4. halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:22 AM

    Hey, guys, stop thumbing down hittfamily’s comments. I have been actually enjoying this guy’s posts since he started commenting. He makes me laugh.

    • cktai - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:24 AM

      He reminds you of someone else when he just joined?

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:26 AM

        Nah. I was much worse.

      • cktai - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:36 AM


      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:44 AM


        Narcissist? Actually, no, because I love the Phillies and beer more than myself, so I can’t be a narcissist.

      • cktai - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:00 PM

        it was a joke about you rating yourself higher than hittfamily 😦

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:02 PM

        How did you get that frowny face into your comment?

      • Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:20 PM

        Dr, you use a colon with a front parenthesis ( right after like 😦 :)

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:28 PM

        Thanks :)

    • bigxrob - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:26 AM

      I can’t figure out if he is trolling or actually believes what he posts.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:28 AM

        hittfamily is a passionate fan. I like his grit. I can respect that.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:29 AM

        He is not trolling. I don’t agree with him but understand his view point. It also should be noted that he is not a Giants fan so there isn’t a team bias in what he is saying.

      • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:00 PM

        Thanks for the kind words fellas. To quote the Confucious of the 21st century Tim Tebow: ppreciate that. I do believe what I post. I am a former pitcher, and I have done what Ramirez did. It isn’t that big of a deal. Plunking someone in the ass is just releasing frustration. The batters reaction is what dictates whether it escalates or not. The pitcher, for some odd, unknown reason, thought he had to do what he did. Sometimes, it’s because guys are getting too good of swings off of you, and you simply have to put the fear of god back in them. Whiteside acted like a fool, but I really believe the Phillies were coming no matter if he layed on the ground or got in a karate kid type stance. The jumping around was silly, but irrelevant.

        On a side note, am I the only one who rooted against the Karate Kid. The Cobra Kai spent their entire life training, dedicating their life to whooping ass. Then this floor shining, fence painting kid who has been training for all of a week comes and I’m supposed to root for him? Get real hollywood.

      • trigzter - Aug 9, 2011 at 3:10 PM

        plunking someone in the ass is a way to relieve frustration? so how is the batter that gets hit supposed to relieve his frustration? It’s a coward move by a pitcher.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 3:15 PM


        You are my type of commenter, hittfamily. You stick to your guns. I like that. I disagree with your opinion of the brawl, but I respect your opinion. Preach on, brother!!!

    • kellyb9 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:32 AM

      Assuming he’s a Giants fan, I don’t understand why he cares if Ramirez gets suspended for a game or two. He’s a reliever. He may have not even have pitched the next few games. I think this is something that could have been considered when handing out punishments. If he recieved 1 or 2 games, I would have been fine with it.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:34 AM

        Hittfamily is a Tampa Bay fan.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:40 AM

        Ohhhhhhh, well now that explains everything doc!

  5. Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:24 AM

    While away in Vegas this past weekend, I missed out on the zillion comment posting about this fight. However, I have never seen such lunacy as hittfamily’s opinions on this matter. Basically what he is saying is that it is OK to:

    1) Plunk a batter on purpose
    2) Tackle someone who is moving toward a pile that is forming when simply standing in front of the guy would have served the same exact purpose, but wouldn’t have risked injury to his knee, back or groin

    Victorino deserves the 3 games no question about it. However, if Ramirez and Whiteside only got fined, then Victorino deserves only a game at most. Ramirez should have been given the 3 games for the purpose pitch. Victorino should have been given the 3 games for fighting. And Whiteside should have been thrown out of the league for jumping up and down like Bernard Hopkins standing ringside waiting for the Round 1 bell to ring.

  6. drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:28 AM

    Why is nobody mentioning the left hook thrown by Sandoval? For other in depth discussion of this issue that has been beat do death since Friday….you can go here:
    or here

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:36 AM

      I still believe you were right about Sandoval initially, that he ran away after throwing the punch. I know you canged your mind about it, saying he was pulled away, but, from what I saw, he ran away, then was pulled further away by Rowand.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:40 AM

        Either way he throw a punch. Us Phillies fans should be pissed that he wasn’t suspended. While I think Whiteside should have been suspended, I can at least understand his thought process…even if he was over eager. I firmly believe Ramirez was ordered to hit Victorino from the bench, which doesn’t make it right but provides an explanation. Sandoval was just as out of control than Victorino if not more so. He tried to choke out Ruiz then throw a left hook at Victorino. No justification, no explanation.

      • kellyb9 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:46 AM

        Ceps, I’m not sure about anything else thats being discussed today, but I can assure you, without any doubt, that there is no way Rowand could have pulled away Sandoval.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:50 AM

        Kelly, no more than Rowand could pull away Blanton if he was involved.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:52 AM

        The only way Blanton would have been involved is if somebody threw his box of doughnuts into the middle of the scrum. Then biceps, you would be right….nobody would be pulling him away from the pile.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM

        Well Rowand was certainly grabbing while looking at him like “what in the hell are you doing.”

      • Phillies Homer - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:17 AM

        Man… Joe Blanton always finds his way into Philly talk!!

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:22 AM

        It’s just so easy. He went to see Dr. James Andrews yesterday by the way. Waiting to hear the results…I hope it’s nothing too serious, but serious enough so they transfer him to the 60 day DL to free up an opening for either Schwimmer or Aumont.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:29 AM


        My hopes for Fat Joe is that they shut him down for the rest of the year. If the guy needs surgery, do it now. We still have him under contract for another year and will need him for 2012. A healthy and slimmed down Fat Joe is what we need. Maybe hire a diet coach for him. Anyone have the number for Richard Simmons?

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM

        Or send him to Chase Utley’s nutritional lady. Here is an interesting article tangentially related:

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:39 AM

        Thanks Doctor, for the link. I just read the article. “Chase Utley, you are the man!”

      • cur68 - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:21 PM

        I see a lot of deconstructing a torrid event here. No one’s gonna change anyone’s mind, I guess, but I’m now compelled to insert my 2 cents: feel free to disregard.

        Hitting a batter should be a fine. Further provoking the batter should escalate to a suspension. The call obviously coming from the bench should be a fine.

        Contacting the ump, jumping into a pile, and escalating the fight should be big suspension mitigated down to 3 games for extreme provocation.

        Provoking the batter while protecting your pitcher should be a suspension OR a fine depending on precedent and history. What Whitside thinks he’s doing inciting Victorino to go for him instead of Ramirez is beyond me. Dude’s a catcher not a rodeo clown. He should be trying to calm Victorino down not provoke him further.

        Sandoval should be fined or suspended; he’s got no business doing what he did.

        And waitaminute! You guys told me Big Joe was a KFC man, not doughnut. Actually I believe the last word on this matter was that he was a chicken fried doughnut man. I think that should be fine for conduct unbecoming of a pro athlete. And a visit to Jenny Craig.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:34 PM


        LOL!!!! You are correct, the last word was, according to my sources, Fat Joe likes his donuts dipped in the fryer at KFC. We are being consistent here. Maybe using Jenny Craig or Richard Simmons is shooting too high for Blanton. Perhaps a better dietician for him would be Ronald McDonald.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:46 PM

        I found a new trainer for Fat Joe Blanton.

      • cur68 - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:26 PM

        Ironic you should go with the little chocolate donuts skit HB. Fat Joe doesn’t watch it he could do to his career what Belushi did to his life.

        Anyhow, I clearly missed the best NL game in quite some time whilst off hitting golf balls in bear country (local rule: if the ball is in the bush near a berry patch it is LOST even if you CAN see it. Penalty for retrieval is a stroke, distance and a severe mauling).

        Who knew Victorino was such a firebrand or that Whiteside was a wannbe rodeo clown? Not this baseball fan, I assure you.

        Tell me HB, do your sources indicate if the Phillies intend further theatrics? Perhaps some soccer flopping followed by a WWE body slam contest since we had a rodeo clowining followed by a football game tackle? If so I shall make note to follow this contest.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:36 PM


        My sources do not have enough information to comment on any further outrageous antics from Phillies land at this time. If I have any further info, I will make it a point to let you know.

        Separate question: With all the years of watching Blue Jays baseball and watching the best pitcher in baseball pitch (I need not even mention his holy name), will you be pulling for the Phillies to win the World Series to get the Holy One a ring?

      • cur68 - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:41 PM

        That would be a big HELL YES, HB (unless, of course it would have been against the BeaverMen of Maple Earth, then I would have to root against him). The One Pitcher is why I’ve been paying so much attention to the Phillies this season. The One needs his One Ring to consummate his power over Baseball Earth. And of course, I’m an Utley, Rollins & Howard fan for ages.

        You know, that Tolkien analogy needs work. Clearly the Nine is the starting line up. Thus Cholly is Sauron (which explains why he speaks in Olde Earth English and usually sounds like he’s casting a spell). This, I think, makes The One Pitcher more like the King of the Nazgul (mightiest of the Nine; when its his turn to start & unless its really hot), then Cliffy & Hamels as Saruman and the 2nd mightiest Ring Wraith I suppose? I guess Fat Joe is a cave troll? Whatever. The One pitcher need fear no man. But he can be slain by a woman and a hobbit. So all he needs to do is stay the hell away from Youkalis and Pedroia and he’ll be fine, right?

  7. FC - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:33 AM

    The reason they didn’t suspend Ramirez and Whitside is that forcing the Giants to keep playing them is punishment enough…

  8. bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:40 AM

    I don’t think baseball wants to stop bench clearing brawls. They get good ratings.

    If they wanted to stop it they issue mandatory suspensions for any player that leaves the dig out, locker room or bull pen to go on the field & get into the fight. Hit them with a mandatory minimum 5 game suspension for coming onto the field. Any fight that does occur between the players on the field will have suspensions handed out accordingly.

    The high number of games suspension should be enough to stop them from happening.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:45 AM

      Can’t do that in baseball because there are 9 players to 1 or 3 at the most on the field. It isn’t like Hockey or Basketball where it is the same amount of players on the court/ice and nobody needs to leave the benches. In baseball, you would have the one guy getting pummeled while everybody on his team watched without getting suspended.

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:48 AM

        That’s true.

        Maybe have it that the huge suspension also goes for anyone entering the grass area around the mound. Would also prevent the charging the mound.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:57 AM

        Somebody below said it and they are right, MLB doesn’t want to put an end to bench clearing situations. It fosters rivalry and ratings. Also, they don’t want to put an end to beanings. They don’t want head hunting, but they don’t care if there are body shots. Likewise, it fosters rivalry and ratings. I mean, Pedro use to bean Yankees because they were Yankees. Helped rekindle the rivalry.

  9. steve7921 - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:43 AM

    Whoever imposed this suspension and fines is probably also the supervisor for the Bob Davidson, Joe West, Angel Hernandez umpiring crew!

  10. phillydano - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:49 AM

    the umps should not be getting physical in baseball brawls. their job is to observe and call the game, not to grip up players and hold them back from the pile. victorino would never have had an issue with the ump if the ump wasnt in there getting physical himself. its up to the players and coaches to police themselves when a brawl breaks out. the umps should observe but stay out.

    regardless, Victorino deserved a suspension, as did Ramirez and Whiteside. and maybe Polanco…

    • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:54 AM

      Polanco didn’t do anything different than the guys leaving both dug outs…the only difference was that he was on base and got there faster. If that idiot Whiteside didn’t tackle him…and simply stood in front of him like always happens, then he wouldn’t even have been noticed. But because that jack ass Whiteside decided that because he sucks at baseball he would bring some attention onto himself by tackling Polanco, he made himself part of the problem.

      I do agree about the umps though…they should just get the hell out of the way and let the players hash it out. They aren’t security guards out there and standing in front of Shane was Whiteside’s job…not the umpire who, as usual, had to make himself bigger than the game. Pathetic.

    • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:02 AM

      Actually the ump is supposed to try to defuse the situation. I’m an ump. You’re responsible for the safety of the people on the field.

      You can’t let a battle royal break out. But you DEFINITELY can’t pull a Joe West & body slam a player breaking them.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:04 AM

        True, but in this case, he should not have stood in front of Shane, and if he does, and gets shoved out of the way, then you can’t equate that with arguing with an umpire and shoving his the way that hitt is trying to do. That’s all I am getting at here…just because an umpire stands in front of you doesn’t mean you can’t push away from him to try to get away without getting a 15 game suspension for doing so.

  11. citynative - Aug 9, 2011 at 10:57 AM

    Oh how the Philly memory is so short and so selective. Was it not Phillies pitcher Roy Oswalt who intentionally threw at Cody Ross’ chin last year in game 2 of the NLCS after homering off Halladay twice? Was it not Phillies fans who cheered this move at CBP? I did not hear one Giants fab wine about that. Funny how when its your team it is ok. Stop the complaining.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:00 AM

      That stuff was brewing all last year. What, Sanchez throw over Utley’s head in the regular season and hit him 3 times last year. Also, ask yourself this: was Oswalt trying to hit him or to get him to move his feet….back him off the plate. There is a difference.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:01 AM

      I’m sorry…I missed where Oswalt actually HIT Ross. Did he hit him? Oh I see…just another Philly hater. Next!!!

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:11 AM

        Throwing inside is part of the game. If a player is on top of the plate & gets knocked down he gets knocked down.

        If the batter gets hit in the strike zone, even if he tries to get out of the way, it’s a strike.


        Rule 6.08(a) Comment:
        (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball;
        If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched.

      • citynative - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:00 PM

        Your excuses for Oswalt throwing at Ross in Game 2 are hilarious.
        Excuse 1 – “Sanchez throw over Utley’s head in the regular season and hit him 3 times last year.” You do not retaliate for mid-season scuffles early in Game 2 of the NLCS.

        Excuse 2 – “Oswalt trying to hit him or to get him to move his feet….back him off the plate.” Back him off the plate? Didnt Ross hit two pitches on the inner half off of Halladay? He was not leaning and beating the Phillies on the outer half.

        Excuse 3 – “I’m sorry…I missed where Oswalt actually HIT Ross.” Please ask anybody that has actually played the game what is more frowned upon, throwing at someone in the back, or thowing anywhere near someones head.

        Excuse 4 – “Throwing inside is part of the game. If a player is on top of the plate & gets knocked down he gets knocked down.” Please read the answer to Excuse 3.

        It is not Philly hating…it is called trying to be consistent.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:32 PM

        The part of the plate in which Ross hit those HR’s is irrelevant. He was too comfortable up there. Hence, getting him to move his feet.

    • Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:52 AM

      Count the number of each team’s HBPs in that series and think again.

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 5:29 PM

        Being thrown at anywhere is frowned upon in my book but the head is worse. I still play & if I get pitched inside, I get pitched inside. If it comes close to hitting me I get out of the way & look for the next one to be in. Then again we don’t have ESPN & MLB Network broadcasting the replay 5,000,000 times getting all the PR & tough guy image for not taking it.

        I never thrown at a batter intentionally but if he’s an ass I might.

  12. everybodyhitswoohoo - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:24 AM

    I still think the saddest part of this whole thing is that it started because of a stolen base in the 6th inning, when San Francisco WAS STILL HOLDING THE RUNNERS ON. Stupid, stupid thing to plunk a guy over.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:27 AM

      Totally agree. The Giants still had 12 outs and they were whining about a guy stealing with a 6 run lead when they were holding him on? Ridiculous. But Shane is the wrong one for walking towards the mound, right, Hittfamily? What an insane position to take on this one.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:30 AM

        It is the stench of Beltran. It has already infected the Giants clubhouse.

      • bambam08 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:35 AM

        I can see them being upset if the stolen base happened in the 8th when you don’t have much time. But with four more chances at the plate to go, they can still come back.

  13. drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:29 AM

    If anybody cares, here is John Gonzalez’s take on it:

  14. b7p19 - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:34 AM

    Wow. You people are out of your minds. Victorino shoved an umpire. Thats a fact. He approached the mound. Thats a fact. Ramirez intentionally hit him. Pretty clear that he did. Ramirez should be suspended for a few games, Whiteside one, and Victorino should be suspended for 5. IMO

    Why are you Phillies fans taking this guys opinion so personally? You are proving everybody right once again. You know that he doesn’t have the power to suspend Victorino for 50 games right? You’re little flyin’ CFer will be back three days after he drops his appeal.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:39 AM

      I don’t think anybody is saying that Victorino shouldn’t be suspended, just that others should have joined him. Also, it is a rainy ugly day here in the greater Philadelphia area….so, why not debate some baseball?

    • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:42 AM

      It’s just good old fashioned debate, b7. Nothing personal.

      Regarding your comments, you are saying moving an umpire out of your way when he initiated the contact equates with arguing with an umpire and making contact with him?

    • bigxrob - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:43 AM

      I don’t think i’ve seen any philly fan state that Victorino shouldn’t have been suspended, I’m suprised it wasn’t 5 games.
      The fact that the pitcher and the catcher didn’t is the perplexing part.

      Hitguys version of events is baffling.

    • everybodyhitswoohoo - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:45 AM

      Probably for some combination of the following:

      a. It’s really, really hard to believe this guy is as thickheaded as he’s coming off to be saying that Victorino was the only one who did anything wrong.
      b. There’s some frustration that our guy was the only one who got suspended, especially given the fact that the other guy was even anticipating one. The fact that Victorino has been our best position player this year (even though he deserved the suspension) probably doesn’t help.
      c. We’re insecure. Duh. Where’s Craig to make fun of us when you need him?

      • b7p19 - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:07 PM

        My first thought is that Craig would be having a field day with this. The Philly blogs would in turn be all up in arms over his hate.

        I think the reason the rest of the fans think Victorino should be suspended forever is that he comes off a pretentious little prick pretty much all the time. Philles fans love him, as they should I suppose, but thats probably what is fueling this. The dog days of August are by far the worst of the baseball season. I can’t wait until mid-september when stories like this are no longer relevant.

  15. Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:43 AM

    Everybody on this thread should be suspended and fined for not referring to Victorino by his appropriate name (Flyin’ Hawaiian) in any way, shape or form.

    • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:56 AM

      LOL!!! Hey, Hair. Welcome back! I haven’t seen you post in a week. Taking a break from posting or vacation?

      • Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:08 PM

        Hey, Halladay. Thanks. I’ve been dealing with personal stuff recently, and that has, and will, make me take breaks from posting. Life tends to intrude upon this kind of thing every so often. Being a grownup sucks sometimes.

      • halladaysbiceps - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:19 PM

        Sorry to hear it. Good luck to you.

      • cur68 - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:34 PM

        Jeez, ‘Hair, not you too, man. Well be cool and I hope it all works out ok. I’m in the midst of a lot personal-life crap too and I gotta say, this sucks more than anything has ever sucked before, Beavis. Good luck.

      • Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:47 PM

        I hear ya, Seisenta y ocho. Good luck to you, too. We all have our own crapstorms to navigate, right?

    • drmonkeyarmy - Aug 9, 2011 at 11:58 AM

      Wait, Victorino is from Hawaii? You think that would be bigger news.

      • b7p19 - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:21 PM

        Yeah, thats news to me too. I thought he was American.

  16. a125125125 - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:04 PM

    “I was waiting on a suspension.”

    I think we’ve found something that Ramirez and Tony Bruno have in common.

  17. yournuts - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:18 PM

    I don’t know what you guys in San Francisco are smoking, and I am from San Francisco, but the reality is Ramon Ramirez threw at Shane Victorino and should have been suspended for at least one but most likely 3 games. Victorino perhaps 3 games and Whiteside 1 game for actually tackling Polanco.
    Victorino was killing the Giants the whole series and it’s no secret that Ramirez targeted Victorino! Thats not motivation for the Giants but perhaps it is for the Phillies against the Giants when they next meet.
    If the Giants wanted to get some energy into their players to start hitting with runners in scoring position then they should have tried something else. I see this not as motivation for the Giants but as a distraction and putting a target on their backs and the Giants are not good enough to have a target on their backs.

  18. Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 12:36 PM

    The Hawaiian was rightfully suspended—the length is the sticking point, but I say two games, rather than three. Whiteside should have been suspended for at least a game for his pathetic takedown attempt. Ramirez should have been suspended for at least two games for the drilling—but he’s a relief pitcher who seems to pitch every three days, so anything over a game really doesn’t matter.

    Beltran’s apparent lack of confidence in the Giants offense should be more of a concern for the team and their fans, though, since he doesn’t think that they can overcome a six run hole in three innings. Really? Rollins should stand at first with his thumb up his a$$ in the sixth inning? That’s just sad.

    Oh, and Sandoval should be required to wear a big purple Barney backpack for the next week for that “punch” he threw.

  19. Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:31 PM

    “since he doesn’t think that they can overcome a six run hole in three innings”

    Actually, it was the top of the 6th when Rollins stole the base, so the Giants actually had 4 times to the plate to score the 6 runs needed. Granted, they were going again the Vanimal and their hopes were pretty freaking dim but still…

    • Utley's Hair - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:41 PM

      Oops…basic counting fail…I suck.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Aug 9, 2011 at 1:59 PM

        No, your mind couldn’t wrap itself around the fact that the Giants actually thought the game was out of reach being down only 6 runs with a full 4 at bats to take. I know at first, I didn’t believe it myself. I had to check the play-by-play to make sure I wasn’t seeing things. I said it on another thread…the Giants are toast. I’d be surprised if they end up beating out AZ for the division, and barring an epic collapse by the Braves, they won’t make the WC either.

        The 2010 Champs are the 2011 Chumps.

  20. liquidgrammar - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:03 PM

    hittfamily, you’re a buffoon!! Victorino should have been suspended, no doubt. But for you to sit there say the Giants did nothing wrong is ridiculous!! But, I guess if i was getting my ass kicked in three of four the week after my best pitcher begged out of two matchups to try to find an easy win, I’d blame Victorino, too!!

    • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 5:17 PM

      Thanks for the input. I have received so much positive reinforcement, I am unable to respond to all posts at this time. I want to sincerely thank you for feedback, and hopefully next time, I will be able to respond to your post.

  21. labeastiaphillies - Aug 9, 2011 at 2:58 PM

    MLB needs to look this over again

  22. kcrockett1 - Aug 9, 2011 at 3:25 PM

    Phillies fans are still way to hung up on this, let it go guys, you’ve got the best team in baseball, right?

  23. spudchukar - Aug 9, 2011 at 3:48 PM

    From now on I will be referring to the Phillie Phans as the Phlash Mob.

  24. hendeeze - Aug 9, 2011 at 6:50 PM

    giants fans whining again? I’m not a baseball fan but I live in the bay area. and the amount of whining from the fanbase has been going on for months. first buster, then talk radio talking about purposefully food poisoning tommy in philly,and now this. wake up giant fans, stop crying like schoolgirls, your supposed to be defending champs

    • hittfamily - Aug 9, 2011 at 7:59 PM

      Not a baseball fan, yet posting on a baseball forum? I have neglected my quantum physics account. I need to swing by that forum and give my 2 cents.

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