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	<title>Comments on: Forget MVP for a second: did you see Heyman&#8217;s ROY pick?</title>
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	<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/</link>
	<description>Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.</description>
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		<title>By: bigleagues</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigleagues]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Heyman has quickly become a relic.

Beyond his questionable methods at picking awards, he is a clearinghouse for trade rumors - 90% of which seem to have no substance.

Hellickson is close to being a no-brainer. But don&#039;t be surprised if Nova pitches some big games in September and snatches it away.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heyman has quickly become a relic.</p>
<p>Beyond his questionable methods at picking awards, he is a clearinghouse for trade rumors &#8211; 90% of which seem to have no substance.</p>
<p>Hellickson is close to being a no-brainer. But don&#8217;t be surprised if Nova pitches some big games in September and snatches it away.</p>
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		<title>By: seattlej</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[seattlej]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matthew, your argument assumes that Delmon Young actually deserved to finish second in 2007.  If this is a discussion of who WILL win, then yeah, bringing up Delmon Young and 2007 is relevant because it explains the way in which the halfwits with the votes tend to cast them.  However, if this is a discussion of who SHOULD win, then bringing up a guy who had a WAR of 0.0 in 2007 is pretty irrelevant.

Just because mistakes have been made in the past doesn&#039;t mean that they should be repeated this year.  Trumbo is having a much better season than Young had in 2007, but that still doesn&#039;t mean that he&#039;s one of the more deserving candidates (he&#039;s not).  My question is, how do you not even consider Ackley and Jennings in this discussion?  Both of these players have been more valuable to their respective teams in a fraction of the ABs that Trumbo has had.  This isn&#039;t even a discussion like last year where Posey had fewer ABs and less value over the entirety of the season, but more value per AB than Heyward.  These guys have had more value over the entire season, despite only playing in a fraction of the games that Trumbo has.  The choice between Trumbo and either Ackley or Jennings is an easy one.  The argument between Ackley and Jennings is more nuanced and more similar to last year&#039;s NL debate, but this article didn&#039;t touch that, so neither will I.

And what about Britton?  Where is he in the discussion?  Hasn&#039;t he had a better season than Hellickson or Nova?  (Hint: the answer is yes).

Despite what you write, arguing for Ackley and Jennings over Trumbo and Britton over Hellickson and Nova makes all the sense in the world.  Do Hellickson, Nova and Trumbo belong in the discussion?  Sure, why not, but the three front runners at this point really SHOULD be Pineda, Ackley and Jennings, with Trumbo coming in a close fourth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew, your argument assumes that Delmon Young actually deserved to finish second in 2007.  If this is a discussion of who WILL win, then yeah, bringing up Delmon Young and 2007 is relevant because it explains the way in which the halfwits with the votes tend to cast them.  However, if this is a discussion of who SHOULD win, then bringing up a guy who had a WAR of 0.0 in 2007 is pretty irrelevant.</p>
<p>Just because mistakes have been made in the past doesn&#8217;t mean that they should be repeated this year.  Trumbo is having a much better season than Young had in 2007, but that still doesn&#8217;t mean that he&#8217;s one of the more deserving candidates (he&#8217;s not).  My question is, how do you not even consider Ackley and Jennings in this discussion?  Both of these players have been more valuable to their respective teams in a fraction of the ABs that Trumbo has had.  This isn&#8217;t even a discussion like last year where Posey had fewer ABs and less value over the entirety of the season, but more value per AB than Heyward.  These guys have had more value over the entire season, despite only playing in a fraction of the games that Trumbo has.  The choice between Trumbo and either Ackley or Jennings is an easy one.  The argument between Ackley and Jennings is more nuanced and more similar to last year&#8217;s NL debate, but this article didn&#8217;t touch that, so neither will I.</p>
<p>And what about Britton?  Where is he in the discussion?  Hasn&#8217;t he had a better season than Hellickson or Nova?  (Hint: the answer is yes).</p>
<p>Despite what you write, arguing for Ackley and Jennings over Trumbo and Britton over Hellickson and Nova makes all the sense in the world.  Do Hellickson, Nova and Trumbo belong in the discussion?  Sure, why not, but the three front runners at this point really SHOULD be Pineda, Ackley and Jennings, with Trumbo coming in a close fourth.</p>
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		<title>By: seattlej</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186558</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[seattlej]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hittfamily:  By your reasoning you&#039;re giving the award to the pitcher who had the better defense behind him, not the pitcher who actually pitched the best.  Team shouldn&#039;t matter in the ROY voting, but ERA is very heavily team dependent.  All defenses (and stadiums) are not created equal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hittfamily:  By your reasoning you&#8217;re giving the award to the pitcher who had the better defense behind him, not the pitcher who actually pitched the best.  Team shouldn&#8217;t matter in the ROY voting, but ERA is very heavily team dependent.  All defenses (and stadiums) are not created equal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: FC</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, it&#039;s not Kimbrel&#039;s fault he rarely gets called for an inning other than the 9th in save situations... all the man can do is pitch. Besides he has scores of other stats to support his bid for ROY: ERA, IP, K/9, BB/9, WAR, FIP, Magic Missile, SAT, +10 Fireball, 18 Charisma, Level 4 2000/1900 ATK/DEF,  9/9 Power/Toughness and every time you spend 1 red mana with him in play all other Braves on the field get +1/+1. I mean I could go...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, it&#8217;s not Kimbrel&#8217;s fault he rarely gets called for an inning other than the 9th in save situations&#8230; all the man can do is pitch. Besides he has scores of other stats to support his bid for ROY: ERA, IP, K/9, BB/9, WAR, FIP, Magic Missile, SAT, +10 Fireball, 18 Charisma, Level 4 2000/1900 ATK/DEF,  9/9 Power/Toughness and every time you spend 1 red mana with him in play all other Braves on the field get +1/+1. I mean I could go&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: paperlions</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186455</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paperlions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 12:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186455</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Completely forgot about Kimbrel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely forgot about Kimbrel.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: purnellmeagrejr</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[purnellmeagrejr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 12:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like Heyman because he writes better than most sporties but he spends too much time at Yankee camp - proof - his preseason pick for MVP was Alex Rodrtiguez,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Heyman because he writes better than most sporties but he spends too much time at Yankee camp &#8211; proof &#8211; his preseason pick for MVP was Alex Rodrtiguez,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: buddaley</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[buddaley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But hittfamily. Which is the better question to ask regarding the ROY? Is it &quot;Who has had the better year?&quot; or &quot;Who has played (pitched) better?&quot; Are we measuring whose standard numbers look better at the end of the year or who has actually demonstrated greater skill?

If you think the former, then your point is made. But if you consider the actual performance of the player-pitcher, not extraneous factors such as strength of team or defense, then I think you have to look beyond the standard stats.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But hittfamily. Which is the better question to ask regarding the ROY? Is it &#8220;Who has had the better year?&#8221; or &#8220;Who has played (pitched) better?&#8221; Are we measuring whose standard numbers look better at the end of the year or who has actually demonstrated greater skill?</p>
<p>If you think the former, then your point is made. But if you consider the actual performance of the player-pitcher, not extraneous factors such as strength of team or defense, then I think you have to look beyond the standard stats.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin S.</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I actually think it&#039;s Craig Kimbrel, and no, that&#039;s not save bias working there.  Dude has been an absolute monster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think it&#8217;s Craig Kimbrel, and no, that&#8217;s not save bias working there.  Dude has been an absolute monster.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: buddaley</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[buddaley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HIttfamily, I don&#039;t think your argument is correct. Pointing out that Hellickson has been lucky and that his peripherals are not as good as PIneda&#039;s does not just indicate that Pineda will likely be the better pitcher in the future. It indicates that Pineda has actually pitched better this year even if the superficial stats suggest otherwise.

It is similar to the argument over last year&#039;s Cy Young. What seemed to sway many voters was the argument that despite his mediocre record, Felix had actually pitched better than other competitors for the award. In the Hellickson case, he has pitched well, but aside from W-L record and ERA, every other signifier indicates Pineda has been better.

K rate: 9.18-6.15
BB rate: 2.94-3.13
HR/9: .94-.96
BABIP: .256-.236
LOB%: 69.5-80.7
GB%: 35.1-31.5
FIP: 3.41-4.16
xFIP: 3.50-4.52
WAR: 2.9-1.6
IP: 153-149.1

Source: Fangraphs

In BB-Ref the differences are not as stark in some cases. In fact, when neutralized, Hellickson looks better as does his WAR. But the point remains that in determining who deserves the award, it does make sense to look at the whole picture, not just at records and ERA.

Doing that, we see some small differences, some big, but almost all favor Pineda. So who has pitched better?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HIttfamily, I don&#8217;t think your argument is correct. Pointing out that Hellickson has been lucky and that his peripherals are not as good as PIneda&#8217;s does not just indicate that Pineda will likely be the better pitcher in the future. It indicates that Pineda has actually pitched better this year even if the superficial stats suggest otherwise.</p>
<p>It is similar to the argument over last year&#8217;s Cy Young. What seemed to sway many voters was the argument that despite his mediocre record, Felix had actually pitched better than other competitors for the award. In the Hellickson case, he has pitched well, but aside from W-L record and ERA, every other signifier indicates Pineda has been better.</p>
<p>K rate: 9.18-6.15<br />
BB rate: 2.94-3.13<br />
HR/9: .94-.96<br />
BABIP: .256-.236<br />
LOB%: 69.5-80.7<br />
GB%: 35.1-31.5<br />
FIP: 3.41-4.16<br />
xFIP: 3.50-4.52<br />
WAR: 2.9-1.6<br />
IP: 153-149.1</p>
<p>Source: Fangraphs</p>
<p>In BB-Ref the differences are not as stark in some cases. In fact, when neutralized, Hellickson looks better as does his WAR. But the point remains that in determining who deserves the award, it does make sense to look at the whole picture, not just at records and ERA.</p>
<p>Doing that, we see some small differences, some big, but almost all favor Pineda. So who has pitched better?</p>
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		<title>By: shutupyoufuckingidiots</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shutupyoufuckingidiots]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Heyman is a fucking stoner, we all know it. he was probably laid out by some dank and had all these cooky ideas coming together and made it official.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heyman is a fucking stoner, we all know it. he was probably laid out by some dank and had all these cooky ideas coming together and made it official.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: paperlions</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paperlions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Except that ERA is not a product of just the pitcher&#039;s performance, it is also a product of the quality of the fielding behind him, and luck (good or bad).

Pineda has struck out 50% more guys, walked fewer, and has a higher GB rate.  Hellickson hasn&#039;t been nearly as good as his ERA suggests, in part because the Rays have great team defense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except that ERA is not a product of just the pitcher&#8217;s performance, it is also a product of the quality of the fielding behind him, and luck (good or bad).</p>
<p>Pineda has struck out 50% more guys, walked fewer, and has a higher GB rate.  Hellickson hasn&#8217;t been nearly as good as his ERA suggests, in part because the Rays have great team defense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hittfamily</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hittfamily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What else should they look at?  His job is to keep the other team from scoring and eat as many innings as possible.  Advanced sabres are nice, but not the be all end all. For example, 2 guys with equal innings , starts, and wins.  1 has an ERA of 3, and 1 has an ERA of 3.5.  I don&#039;t need to look at advanced sabre stats to dtermine which pitcher has had the better year.

Hellickson&#039;s ERA is 20% lower than either Pineda or Nova.  If your sabre&#039;s say either of them have had a better year, I&#039;d rethink how much validity those stats have.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What else should they look at?  His job is to keep the other team from scoring and eat as many innings as possible.  Advanced sabres are nice, but not the be all end all. For example, 2 guys with equal innings , starts, and wins.  1 has an ERA of 3, and 1 has an ERA of 3.5.  I don&#8217;t need to look at advanced sabre stats to dtermine which pitcher has had the better year.</p>
<p>Hellickson&#8217;s ERA is 20% lower than either Pineda or Nova.  If your sabre&#8217;s say either of them have had a better year, I&#8217;d rethink how much validity those stats have.</p>
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		<title>By: paperlions</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paperlions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 01:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you look at the fielding independent metrics, Hellickson has been very lucky on balls in play this year, and doesn&#039;t have the peripherals of Pineda, it doesn&#039;t look close....really....not that more than a few AL ROY voters will pay attention past W, IP, and ERA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at the fielding independent metrics, Hellickson has been very lucky on balls in play this year, and doesn&#8217;t have the peripherals of Pineda, it doesn&#8217;t look close&#8230;.really&#8230;.not that more than a few AL ROY voters will pay attention past W, IP, and ERA.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: paperlions</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paperlions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 01:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is a weak class for sure: I&#039;d say one of Freeman, Espinosa, or Collmenter....probably Freeman because defense is under-rated and pitchers rarely get serious consideration for ROY unless they are phenoms]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a weak class for sure: I&#8217;d say one of Freeman, Espinosa, or Collmenter&#8230;.probably Freeman because defense is under-rated and pitchers rarely get serious consideration for ROY unless they are phenoms</p>
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		<title>By: paperlions</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paperlions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 01:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[a .294 OBP has always been hideous]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a .294 OBP has always been hideous</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;m biased, as you probably can guess when it comes to JB for MVP, so i stayed out of your particular discussion on that one. There&#039;s no WAY I posses even a shred of credibility when it comes to rooting for MVP and I&#039;m torn as to the relative merits of your argument. You could convince me, is what I&#039;m saying except we speak of the best player on my mediocre team here. I want every argument to go his way and the facts be damned. 

As for Heyman; well come on. What could anyone expect? Squirrels chase that guy down the street. Clowns bow to him out of professional respect. Decks of cards are produced with this joker in it. Few of his arguments are defensible is what i&#039;m saying. Even a blind chicken finds corn every once awhile (so my Grammy attests, since she had a blind hen) and so it was with Heyman this AM: he produced an argument for MVP which, quite by accident, fell upon your sympathetic ears because you largely have the same opinion yourself. You needn&#039;t fear that&#039;ll happen too many more times in your lifetime I bet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m biased, as you probably can guess when it comes to JB for MVP, so i stayed out of your particular discussion on that one. There&#8217;s no WAY I posses even a shred of credibility when it comes to rooting for MVP and I&#8217;m torn as to the relative merits of your argument. You could convince me, is what I&#8217;m saying except we speak of the best player on my mediocre team here. I want every argument to go his way and the facts be damned. </p>
<p>As for Heyman; well come on. What could anyone expect? Squirrels chase that guy down the street. Clowns bow to him out of professional respect. Decks of cards are produced with this joker in it. Few of his arguments are defensible is what i&#8217;m saying. Even a blind chicken finds corn every once awhile (so my Grammy attests, since she had a blind hen) and so it was with Heyman this AM: he produced an argument for MVP which, quite by accident, fell upon your sympathetic ears because you largely have the same opinion yourself. You needn&#8217;t fear that&#8217;ll happen too many more times in your lifetime I bet.</p>
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		<title>By: hittfamily</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hittfamily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree Matthew.  Jennings is quickly becoming my favorite player in the game, but he would have to put on a show to overtake Hellickson or Pineda.  However, his numbers are insane for a guy who could play center field.  He has 130 AB 8 HR, 14 SB, 19 XBH, .440 OBP, an OPS of almost 1.1, and his team has averaged a run more per game since his arrival (not a fair stat, but just saying!).

He will get almost as many AB to finish the season, so if you double his numbers, 15 HR, 30 SB, 40 XBH,.440 OBP,  I certainly think his 40% are more valuable than Trumbo&#039;s 100% of a season  at first base.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Matthew.  Jennings is quickly becoming my favorite player in the game, but he would have to put on a show to overtake Hellickson or Pineda.  However, his numbers are insane for a guy who could play center field.  He has 130 AB 8 HR, 14 SB, 19 XBH, .440 OBP, an OPS of almost 1.1, and his team has averaged a run more per game since his arrival (not a fair stat, but just saying!).</p>
<p>He will get almost as many AB to finish the season, so if you double his numbers, 15 HR, 30 SB, 40 XBH,.440 OBP,  I certainly think his 40% are more valuable than Trumbo&#8217;s 100% of a season  at first base.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes it is.  He&#039;s got a BB% of 4.7.  And OPS overrates SLG which is a huge benefit to Trumbo b/c if he hits the ball, he hits it far.  A 4.7 BB% is terrible.  Eventually pitchers will stop throwing him anything on the plate (42.5% Oswing(!))]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes it is.  He&#8217;s got a BB% of 4.7.  And OPS overrates SLG which is a huge benefit to Trumbo b/c if he hits the ball, he hits it far.  A 4.7 BB% is terrible.  Eventually pitchers will stop throwing him anything on the plate (42.5% Oswing(!))</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Manni Stats</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Manni Stats]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think he should find a couple votes going his way, sure.  I do realize there is value in playing a full season, but Jennings has been super productive in a very short time (same goes for Ackley).  Both would have to play just as well in September as they have so far, and even them it would be a stretch to see them garner anything than a few &quot;acknowledgement&quot; votes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think he should find a couple votes going his way, sure.  I do realize there is value in playing a full season, but Jennings has been super productive in a very short time (same goes for Ackley).  Both would have to play just as well in September as they have so far, and even them it would be a stretch to see them garner anything than a few &#8220;acknowledgement&#8221; votes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hittfamily</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hittfamily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Trumbo is 18th in OPS out of 23 qualifying first baseman.  Hellickson is 7th in the AL in ERA, and 18th overall among starting pitchers.  The 2 shouldn&#039;t be mentioned in the same sentence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trumbo is 18th in OPS out of 23 qualifying first baseman.  Hellickson is 7th in the AL in ERA, and 18th overall among starting pitchers.  The 2 shouldn&#8217;t be mentioned in the same sentence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: scatterbrian</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[scatterbrian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed drmonkey and Luke... just further pointing out Heyman&#039;s bass ackwards logic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed drmonkey and Luke&#8230; just further pointing out Heyman&#8217;s bass ackwards logic</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pouliot</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matthew Pouliot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For comparison&#039;s sake, Delmon Young had a 91 OPS+ when he finished second to Dustin Pedroia in the 2007 ROY balloting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For comparison&#8217;s sake, Delmon Young had a 91 OPS+ when he finished second to Dustin Pedroia in the 2007 ROY balloting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hittfamily</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hittfamily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James Shields BABIP last year says his ERA should not have been almost 5, but it was.  Using advanced sabremetics to determine who the better player is going forward, and who will have the better career is fine, but as far as awards go, you have to vote on this years stats.  Hellickson has been a better pitcher than anyone else, whether by luck or not.  

David Price has more innings because he has 5 more starts than Hellickson.  They are limiting his innings by skipping several starts, and not allowed him to go as deep as Price in games.  He has been more consistent than Price.

What are your thoughts on Jennings&#039; chances, not of winning, but receiving some votes.  Is 275 enough at bats to garner some votes?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James Shields BABIP last year says his ERA should not have been almost 5, but it was.  Using advanced sabremetics to determine who the better player is going forward, and who will have the better career is fine, but as far as awards go, you have to vote on this years stats.  Hellickson has been a better pitcher than anyone else, whether by luck or not.  </p>
<p>David Price has more innings because he has 5 more starts than Hellickson.  They are limiting his innings by skipping several starts, and not allowed him to go as deep as Price in games.  He has been more consistent than Price.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on Jennings&#8217; chances, not of winning, but receiving some votes.  Is 275 enough at bats to garner some votes?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pouliot</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matthew Pouliot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It certainly isn&#039;t ideal.  But this isn&#039;t 2007 anymore.  A .294 OBP isn&#039;t as hideous as it used to be, and Trumbo has a 115 OPS+.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly isn&#8217;t ideal.  But this isn&#8217;t 2007 anymore.  A .294 OBP isn&#8217;t as hideous as it used to be, and Trumbo has a 115 OPS+.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: drmonkeyarmy</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186344</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drmonkeyarmy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know...I agree with his general premise in the MVP discussion. However, this is largely ridiculous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8230;I agree with his general premise in the MVP discussion. However, this is largely ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: pbannard</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186341</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pbannard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seriously, a first baseman with a sub .300 OBP shouldn&#039;t even be in the conversation, even in a weak year. Have we learned nothing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, a first baseman with a sub .300 OBP shouldn&#8217;t even be in the conversation, even in a weak year. Have we learned nothing?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And that, drmonkeyarmy, is Heyman in a nutshell (where he belongs). Largely indefensible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that, drmonkeyarmy, is Heyman in a nutshell (where he belongs). Largely indefensible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lukehart80</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186337</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lukehart80]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s because they&#039;re on playoff bound teams and that&#039;s a hangup for Heyman. If it was the Cy Valuable Young award, Heyman would undoubtedly kick Kershaw off the list for not winning enough of the games he didn&#039;t pitch in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s because they&#8217;re on playoff bound teams and that&#8217;s a hangup for Heyman. If it was the Cy Valuable Young award, Heyman would undoubtedly kick Kershaw off the list for not winning enough of the games he didn&#8217;t pitch in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: drmonkeyarmy</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drmonkeyarmy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That shouldn&#039;t come as a surprise. He is consistently valuing players who are playing for contending teams over others in MVP balloting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That shouldn&#8217;t come as a surprise. He is consistently valuing players who are playing for contending teams over others in MVP balloting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Manni Stats</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/forget-mvp-for-a-second-did-you-see-heymans-roy-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-186332</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Manni Stats]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=82336#comment-186332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great catch - the Fangraphs rookie filter includes him, thus my confusion.  Strike him from my post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great catch &#8211; the Fangraphs rookie filter includes him, thus my confusion.  Strike him from my post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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