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Phillies’ protest of Sunday’s loss to the Marlins denied

Sep 7, 2011, 6:36 PM EDT

Charlie Manuel, Joe West AP

As expected.

The Phillies’ protest of Sunday’s 14-inning loss to the Marlins over what appeared to be the improper use of replay on a fan interference call has been denied.

Major League Baseball made the announcement after the play was reviewed by Joe Torre, the executive vice president for baseball operations.

The Phillies protested after Hunter Pence was ruled out on fan interference after initially being awarded a double, a ruling change that cost the team two runs. The score was tied at 2 when Pence hit a fly ball to right-center. A spectator leaned over the outfield railing and tried to catch the ball with his cap. Marlins right fielder Bryan Petersen tried to make the catch, but his glove brushed the fan’s cap, and the ball went for an apparent double. Following a video review, the umpires called Pence out.

The umpiring crew defended the call by saying it was a home run in doubt.  Replay rules do not allow for the review of possible doubles.

  1. halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:46 PM

    From the article that Matt linked:

    “Major League Baseball made the announcement Thursday after the play was reviewed by Joe Torre, the executive vice president for baseball operations.”

    What is the statement that Torre released? Did he release a statement regarding the reasoning? Why doesn’t MLB ever release a statement and the logic behind the decision regarding why they came to a decision regarding anything that is disputed?

    It’s a fricking joke! Isn’t this the continuation of the antics of one Darth Selig?

    • Matthew Pouliot - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM

      There is a press release. But, like you said, it’s a joke.

      Major League Baseball announced today that Executive Vice President for Baseball Operations Joe Torre has denied the formal protest filed by the Philadelphia Phillies regarding their Sunday, September 4th game against the Florida Marlins at Sun Life Stadium.

      That’s the whole thing.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:56 PM

        Matt, yeah, I just read it. Unbelievable. I have no problem that the Phillies lost the game whatsoever. They were beat, fair and square. What I have the problem with is that this umpire usurped his authority and MLB is not going to release a statement adressing the issue.

        This is why I am so critical of the Commisioner’s office. I call Bud Selig “Darth Selig” for a reason. I do not respect a man that plays games with your and my game of baseball.

        All good baseball fans should be pissed at how he has for years done business.

    • kellyb9 - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:54 PM

      It’s a cover up… because Joe West said after the game that they thought it could have been a home run, they were able to review and overturn the ruling. The thing that really irks me is that they were ready to continue on with the game until the Marlins manager came out to argue for fan interference. Additionally, I’m not certain a fan interference call should be an automatic out, there was simply no guarantee that the right fielder was going to catch that ball.

    • aclassyguyfromaclassytown - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:19 PM

      Don’t go asking Eskin about it. Even though he’s not hosting a show anymore (which I am thankful for), he still got his way on Glenn and Anthony’s show as their “road reporter” telling everyone that he had just spoke with Joe West, and he couldn’t agree more with what Joe West did. The guy changed his story about the situation a couple times, but we should surely just agree with his decision? I also would like it if MLB would give an explanation rather than a simple statement. Can’t say I’m a fan of Selig either. I’m not much of a fan of one person holding all the choices of the game in their own hands. I’d rather see a 3 person system where 2 can overrule one. That way you at least have more than one persons opinion to make decisions.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:25 PM

        “Don’t go asking Eskin about it.”

        Who is this directed at? Before someone can respond, please note who you are directing the statement to. If it’s directed at me, I will respond. Please clarify.

      • aclassyguyfromaclassytown - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:21 PM

        It was directed to you, and also anyone reading. I’ve noticed you talking about people calling in to WIP and thought that this would be something relative to it in that it both deals with Joe West making a rouge call, and a personality from a radio station you listen to. This is being written to you biceps.

  2. crankyfrankie - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM

    Although I knew that this would happen I am disappointed. The replay was misused and changed the outcome of a game and that is just plain wrong. If there is a decision at the winter meetings to increase the use of replays that would be one thing but the rules that are currently in play this rulings rewards the circumvention of those rules which is what West and company did.

  3. bambam08 - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM

    Even though they got the call correct they screwed up going in to review it & they know it. That’s why they claimed the home plate ump questioned it being a home run. If they left it that Manual did they’d be caught in a lie because he didn’t say anything to them until Pence was ruled out.

    The one thing the play does show is that replay should be expanded some to include plays like that one either on balls close to being HRs or foul balls near the stands where interference may have been involved. The only thing that should be added for the interference is that the umps must request checking it out on fouls otherwise they’d be there all night.

  4. kellyb9 - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:51 PM

    Funny… so the only people in the stadium who thought it might have been a HR was the umpire crew – Particularly the home plate umpire who arguably had the worst look at the play. The Marlins manager certainly didn’t call for a review of the play to determine whether it was a home run, and Charlie Manuel didn’t talk to the umpire crew until after they made their controversial ruling. Clearly baseball has a problem and is able to conveniently cover it up because an umpire said *after the fact* that he thought there was a possibility that it could have been a Home Run, Either expand instant reply or play by the rules you currently have in place, don’t selectively pick and choose when you want to be in the 21st century. The human element strikes again.

    • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:01 PM

      My opinion, and I think you know this Kelly, is that I don’t like instant replay in baseball. But, regardless of that, they have it in place for homeruns. This umpire decides to review for a different reason and it is not expounded upon further by MLB other saying that the protest is denied? What’s wrong with them? They feel that they don’t have to tell fans like you and I and, let’s face it, all baseball fans with this BS response. That’s what’s wrong!

      • kellyb9 - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:03 PM

        I’m not sure I agree with you, although my background is computer science (so theres always that). Either way, I don’t think this is an issue of instant reply versus no instant replay, it’s about the application of the instant replay rules.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:38 PM


        Respectfully, did you read my comment? I never said it’s replay versus no replay. All I said was that I’m not a replay guy. What I said is that since they have this in place, utilize it correctly according to the rules. Joe West did not. I want an answer from the commisioner’s office why they decided to decline the protest and the logic.

        By the way, I’m a Network Engineer by trade, Kelly. I am heavy in the sciences. I’m not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand. If this is a Saber discussion, I understand why you would bring that up. But, it’s not.

      • kellyb9 - Sep 8, 2011 at 9:37 AM

        Sorry cepts was in a rush yesterday. Not to stereotype, but I’ve always assumed people with a technical background are more likely to embrace instant replay and technology as a way of getting the call right on the field.

  5. cur68 - Sep 7, 2011 at 6:57 PM

    This is why CBJW sucks. No accountability and no transparency. He can get away with anything and he knows it.

    • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:04 PM

      Of course he can. MLB will not take this guy on because they are afraid of the union. Who’s the boss, MLB or the MLB Umpires association? I’m sick of this crap.

  6. halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:14 PM

    Matt Pouliot, here’s another thing I wanted to ask you about, if you care to respond. Do you remember when we had an NL and AL president, below the commisioner? Notice that Darth Selig did away with those positions when he assumed the duties of commisioner. Why?

  7. halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:30 PM

    drmonkeyarmy or Chris F., I can’t believe we are watching a Phillies game right now with this crappy weather. All comments, now (lol).

  8. halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM

    Roy Oswalt looks very good so far. He seems to be hitting his spots.

  9. drmonkeyarmy - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM

    Yes, he has looked decent. Some life on the fastball thus far. See if he can keep it up. I’m leaving work now, will join back in like 20 minutes.

    • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:22 PM

      Sounds good, Doctor. I’m still here. I will report back ever so often. In the middle of something right now, but I will try.

  10. paperlions - Sep 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM

    Why in the world is anyone bothering to cry about this? The Phillies are so far out in front of the world that this result is irrelevant. If it was upheld, would you really want the Phillies to waste the time necessary to replay the game from the point of the protest?

    • The Baseball Gods - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:21 PM

      You are completely missing the point. Obviously it doesn’t mean much to the Phillies. It matters because it would be horrible for this to happen in a meaningful game, and since there was basically no explanation for what happened in the game they have opened up the opportunity for the umpires to pretty much do whatever they want. The reason they went to review the play was because the home plate umpire thought it was fan interference and the umpires didn’t want to look bad in making the wrong call. So instead they took it on themselves to find a loophole in the rules by stating that they were looking to see if it was a home run even though they were looking to see if it was fan interference. This could be a big issue if this happens in the playoffs. It’s embarrassing for baseball that there was no explanation of exactly what took place that day. It’s also embarrassing that Joe West flagrantly lied about talking to Charlie Manuel before they went to replay. Charlie Manuel is a lot of things, but one thing he does not appear to be is a liar. MLB better release an explanation or Ruben Amaro should make a statement himself saying how disappointed he is that MLB failed to make a public announcement in this debacle.

    • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:21 PM

      For principle, yes. You’re a stat guy. You can appreciate that, no? Why do you care?

      • paperlions - Sep 8, 2011 at 8:45 AM

        No, I am not a “stats guy”. I have no doubt I watch more baseball than you do because I watch many games that do not involve my team….just because I like baseball or want to see specific players. Why is it that you don’t realize that EVERY SINGLE “stats guy” in baseball LOVES baseball or they wouldn’t be doing what they are doing? Indeed, every one of them probably loves baseball more than you do, because that love of the game has moved them to act and invest time to enhance their understanding and appreciation of the game, which you have never bothered to do.

    • kellyb9 - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:31 PM

      2 Reason…
      A.) This sets a precedent that shouldn’t be set by an umpire during a live game.
      B.) This can happen in the playoffs or world series.

      • paperlions - Sep 8, 2011 at 8:43 AM

        So, you are pissed because replay was used to get a call correct?

  11. The Common Man - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:32 PM

    Wow, John Mayberry and the Phillies both denied on the same day. Tough times, Philly Phans.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:37 PM

      The odds were stacked against both of them. Nobody really expected either to succeed.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:47 PM


        I’m glad that you responded to the Common Man with this post. Here is the holy Common Man, the comment cop that criticised me for using the terms “Moron” and “Clown” and what he thinks about Philly. And I’m distasteful?

        The Common Man – Sep 7, 2011 at 4:05 PM
        Apparently there are no attractive women left in Philadelphia for John Mayberry Jr. I can’t say I’m surprised.

      • kiwicricket - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:34 PM

        HB- No need to stress. He was just kidding. Don’t worry about what other people are posting, as it only seems to get you into trouble. Enjoy the game, and the articles.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 11:10 PM

        kiwi, see my comment above to your unwarranted response. You are a fucking moron. Let me repeat that if you didn’t read that the first time. You are a fucking moron. Got it? Did I insult you enough to chase you away? At least I didn’t trash your city, like Comman Man did to the city of Philadelphia with his bullshit comment. I expect to not hear from either of you losers anymore.

        And don’t try to cry/tweet Craig for my profanity, because there is a lot of profanity that slides on this site.

  12. drmonkeyarmy - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:51 PM

    Ok, this is getting ridiculous. The strike zone for Beachy and Oswalt are not the same. First time I’ve said that this year. Asinine. Keeps calling pitches 6 inches off the plate to left handers.

    • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 8:57 PM

      Agreed. He’s being squeezed a little bit. We will see how this goes.

      Did you see my comment above? This guy that is the comment police on this site just trashed our city, “The Common Man”. What do you think? It’s OK for him to kill me in comments for being sexist and it’s OK that this guy kills our city?

      • drmonkeyarmy - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:01 PM

        TCM is ok. We have had disagreements but it has always been civil. That being said, I don’t like when people say bad things about Philadelphia. I think he was saying that in jest though. That clearly wasn’t a catch.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:04 PM

        The comment earlier that is. I don’t think there was anything particularly wrong at all with his comment in this thread.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:08 PM


        The Common Man has become a parasite. His motivation now is to trash me and fellow Phillies fans. With his advanced “Metric” knowledge, he has responded solely to Phillies posts in the last day or so and talks BS. Re-read through the comments.

      • kiwicricket - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:38 PM

        Cept’s, please stop with the personal derogatory comments. You called guys cockroaches yesterday, now someone is a parasite. Things go South very quickly once you start with this stuff. Let’s just enjoy a good ballgame.

      • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 11:04 PM

        kiwicricket, “please stop with the personal derogatory comments. ”

        Are you kidding me? The Common Man trashed my city and I want him corrected and I don’t want to hear any more comment cop shit where he comes from. He trashed my city. It’s OK for him to trash a city, corrects me for improper comments and at the same time no one corrects him. If you believe that this guy is in the right, you are a moron!

  13. crankyfrankie - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:23 PM

    Remember Bicep feeding the trolls just encourages their antics. You can rise above it just like the Phils in the standings.

    • halladaysbiceps - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:29 PM

      Your right. But, Common Man isn’t a troll. Remember, this is the author of, which ESPN has a link to. Who am I? I am but a simple commenter. The Common Man feels the need to police comments that do not go with his philosophy and denigrate my city, the city of Philadelphia.

  14. tacklemeelmo - Sep 7, 2011 at 9:53 PM

    Only in baseball can instant replay be used to get a call right and there’s a huge stink made about it.

  15. drmonkeyarmy - Sep 7, 2011 at 10:12 PM

    See, I told everybody that the Phillies need to stick with Ross Gload. :)

  16. Chris Fiorentino - Sep 7, 2011 at 10:59 PM

    Nobody is talking about the HUGE story from this game…Utley getting plunked in the dome. Concussions are nothing to gloss over (see Morneau, Justin) Utley is going to sit a couple games, which hurts against the Brewers, but more importantly, it is going to hurt if he ends up being affected by this for the rest of the season and playoffs. And all because that jerk O’Flaherty who comes in and hits him in the head on his first pitch…then just so happens to throw 4 or 5 nasty pitches to Howard exactly where he wanted to throw them. Hmmm. If he didn’t want to pitch to Utley, he should have just threw 4 in the dirt.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Sep 8, 2011 at 7:32 AM

      Ricky Bo want retaliation. He said and this is pretty much an exact quote: Sooner or later somebody in the bullpen is going to get fed up. You have to make it known that you can’t go around doming out best players.

  17. micker716 - Sep 8, 2011 at 12:12 AM

    I saw “Phillies” in the headline and felt an obligation to type something.

  18. dasher521 - Sep 8, 2011 at 8:35 AM

    Joe Torre and “Lap Dog” Selig need to explain the ruling and the rule. The managers and coaches need to know. The players need to know. The fans deserve to know. If the umpires would have called Pence out after meeting on the field prior to review, I have not problem with call. Call Pence out after looking at the replay is like telling a jury to disregard that last remark. Once the umpires go to see the replay, no changes should occur on the field. After looking at the replay all the umpires should be able to do is rule whether or not it is a home run. Joe West thinks the fans pay to see him and he is of greater interest than the players. The job of an umpire is to get it right and be invisible. It is not to provoke players and crave center stage.

  19. phillysoulfan - Sep 8, 2011 at 8:59 AM

    @halladaysbiceps HOW DARE YOU TAKE THE NAME DARTH IN VANE!?!?!?!?!

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