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Don’t expect Phillies to use any starters on short rest

Oct 4, 2011, 12:48 PM EDT

Philadelphia Phillies v Cincinnati Reds Getty Images

Chris Carpenter‘s first career short-rest start didn’t go well Sunday in Philadelphia and when asked if he’d ever use a Phillies starter on short rest during the playoffs pitching coach Rich Dubee made it pretty clear that he’s against the idea:

Most real good players at this level get accustomed to a routine. Apparently that was Carpenter’s first whack at it. That’s a strange beast right there. You’re going from your normal side day. Then you’re third day generally you can kick back and relax mentally. The fourth day you get ready to pitch. Now all of a sudden you probably didn’t have a side day and you have shorter rest and shorter preparation time.

That’s about as close to criticizing the opposing manager as someone can come without making headlines and creating bulletin board material. And in terms of potential Tony La Russa nicknames I think “strange beast” is a pretty decent one, accidentally.

Of course, in fairness to La Russa there’s a whole lot less need to use a starter on short rest when you’re pitching coach for a team that has four No. 1 starters. Philadelphia’s rotation is so deep that Roy Oswalt is basically just a spot starter and Vance Worley is in the bullpen, so pushing Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee to pitch on three days rest isn’t really necessary even if Dubee agreed with the strategy.

With that said, Todd Zolecki of notes that Dubee has also been true to his word in past seasons when the Phillies weren’t quite as stacked with aces, resisting the urge to use go short rest with Cole Hamels in the 2007 NLDS, Cliff Lee in the 2009 World Series, and Roy Halladay in last year’s playoffs. Things might be different if the choice was between, say, Halladay on short rest or Joe Blanton, but Ruben Amaro Jr. has made sure Dubee and manager Charlie Manuel never have to make that type of call.

  1. drmonkeyarmy - Oct 4, 2011 at 12:54 PM

    You can’t trust Dubee. Honestly, I’m pretty convinced he spends most of the day thinking of ways to torment Kyle Kendrick. If something bizarre happens and the Phillies lose tonight, I would throw Doc out there on short rest and have Lee on regular rest for Game 5. Doc has done it before with good success. I realize the sample size is small and it wasn’t in the playoffs, but I don’t care. I trust Oswalt and think he would pitch well in an elimination game, but I would want the best pitcher on the mound with the season on the line.

  2. halladaysbiceps - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:03 PM

    Aaron, I don’t think Dubee was inferring that LaRussa is a “strange beast”. I think he was referring to the idea of pitching on short rest can be compared to the notion of a “strange beast.”

    • stlouis1baseball - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:16 PM

      For what it’s worth Biceps…I agree. In Aaron’s defense though…bashing TLR seems to be the thing to do this year so he probably just assumed Dubee was jumping on board! LOL! Nevertheless, good luck tonight. I am just hoping my Cardinals have more of it. I expect another hard fought game.

      • halladaysbiceps - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:19 PM

        I would say good luck to you, but you know I can’t. All I can say is that I hope we both see a good game. Obviously, like all games, it comes down to pitching. This game is on the shoulders of both Hamels and Garcia. Who will be more effective? We shall see.

      • paperlions - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:31 PM

        I ain’t no band wagon basher….I’ve been bashing LaRussa for years…at least since 2005….and I’ll still be here when it isn’t a popular past time anymore :-)

    • halladaysbiceps - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM


      I saw in one of your posts today that you are a lawyer. It surprises me that you would be so critical of LaRussa, be a former lawyer himself. I thought you guys stuck together. Then again, Craig Calcaterra is a former lawyer and crucifies him all the time, so my theory is shot.

      • paperlions - Oct 4, 2011 at 2:50 PM

        I’m not a lawyer, that was a joke related to the SNL skit that was posted.

        LaRussa actually is not a former lawyer, he just has a law degree. Lawyers are people that practice law, which LaRussa was lucky enough to never do as the baseball thing panned out pretty well for him.

  3. halladaysbiceps - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:17 PM

    It’s 1:15PM and I am getting pumped up for this game @5:07!!! I can’t wait!!!! Yesterday without Phillies baseball was excruciating.

    • stlouis1baseball - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:23 PM

      “I would say good luck to you, but you know I can’t.” Interesting. Mental note…”Biceps is very much like a Cubs fan and must now be treated accordingly.”

      • halladaysbiceps - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:28 PM

        Don’t you think that is a natural response? I am a Phillies fan. Why would I say good luck to a Card’s fan in this series? All I can say is that I hope we both see a good game. Make no mistake about it, though. I hope Hamels pitches a 5 hit complete came shutout on the Cards.

      • Alex K - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:35 PM

        How is that like a Cubs fan?

  4. justnoting - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:25 PM

    Just noting that the Phillies were not in the
    World Series year. They lost the NLDS to the Giants.

    • halladaysbiceps - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:29 PM

      What’s that statement have to do with the Phillies pitchers pitching on short rest?

      • stlouis1baseball - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:35 PM

        Considering I wished you good luck initially…NO…I don’t think it’s a natural response. A natural response would be to reciprocate that good luck I gave you. It’s what I refer to as sportsmanship. But no worries Man. I now am fully aware of where we are. Go Cardinals!

  5. philly2boston - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:36 PM

    just noting the Phightins lost in the NLCS last year. this will be Halladay’s first sniff of WS.. hopefully.

  6. stlouis1baseball - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:40 PM

    Paper: I hear you. Please know the “universal” bashing seems to be the trendy thing to do this year. So much so…I made the comment to Craig a couple of weeks ago about him not knowing where to turn should hell freeze over, the Cardinals actually make the playoffs and TLR gets Manager of the year. And what do you know…the talking heads on MLB and ESPN are now on Tony’s jock. Kind of funny really. And please know I fully understand you do NOT like him…and wish the Cardinals had another Manager. Personally, I feel he has done a remarkable job this year.

  7. stlouis1baseball - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:43 PM

    Alex: I was waiting for you to respond. Please know I mean no disrespect to YOU. My comment was made sort of tongue-in-cheek based upon all the Cubs trolls on the Cardinals site for the last two weeks openly bashing them and praying for the Cardinals demise. Acutally reveling in the possibilities of a Cardinals collapse. Go NL Central!

    • Alex K - Oct 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM

      Probably shouldn’t have painted with such a broad brush. The Cardinals have their fair share of troll fans just like every fanbase.

      • stlouis1baseball - Oct 4, 2011 at 2:49 PM

        Sure they do. I agree 100%.

  8. sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Oct 4, 2011 at 1:54 PM

    “resisting the urge to use go short rest with Cole Hamels in the 2007 NLDS, Cliff Lee in the 2009 World Series, and Roy Halladay in last year’s playoffs.”

    And how did those series work out for Philly? Maybe they should start thinking about the short rest thing.

    Really, the Phillies have one HUGE advantage over everyone else, and it is the top 3 guys. Oswalt is good for a 4th starter, but he is no Halladay.

  9. spudchukar - Oct 4, 2011 at 2:44 PM

    Sorry Dr.,Sabath, et al but starting Halladay on short rest and bypassing Oswalt doesn’t make sense to me. Then, assuming you win in St. Louis, it will be a well-rested Carpenter vs. Lee. I would choose Oswalt vs. whomever St. Louis decides on. Personally I would like to see Lohse again for about 5 and then the pen.

    From a Cards perspective I would rather face Halladay on short rest than Oswalt, and then possibly Halladay. He is supposed to be one of your 4 Aces, is experienced, tough, and when “on”, is still a tough guy to beat. Plus he has looked good recently.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 4, 2011 at 2:48 PM

      Fair enough. You make a compelling argument but I disagree.

  10. drunkenhooliganism - Oct 4, 2011 at 3:08 PM


  11. spudchukar - Oct 4, 2011 at 3:13 PM

    Again, Good Luck to all Phillie Phans. May the team that plays the best win.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 4, 2011 at 3:45 PM

      Likewise Spudchukar. You Cardinal fans are all right. There is only one of you that is obnoxious and he apparently lives in Delaware. Go figure.

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