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Dueling quotes of the day: Joe Torre and Dirk Hayhurst on replay

Oct 24, 2011, 12:07 PM EDT

Joyce blown call

Joe Torre was asked about replay yesterday. As usual, he worried about how it might affect the pace of the game:

“To me, it’s more the flow as opposed to how long it takes,” Torre said. “The game has a certain rhythm to it that you don’t really want to disrupt on a regular basis.”

I was gonna write 500 words talking about the problems I have with that mindset, but Dirk Hayhurst summed it up much more succinctly a few minutes ago:

Being against instant reply because it’s slow is like being against truth because it’s boring.

Man. It’s almost like that pitcher should be a writer or something.

  1. daisycutter1 - Oct 24, 2011 at 12:20 PM

    Well, that explains why when Torre managed the Yankees he had to be woken up to go argue a terrible call or inform an umpire it was unacceptable how often his batters were getting hit.

  2. cur68 - Oct 24, 2011 at 12:29 PM

    “Truth, boring truth, is all you have sir. I much preferred your earlier writings, when you just made stuff up because it sounded neat. You have my permission to proceed, but frankly, I’m disappointed.”
    -written on my ethics approval for my study by the dean of my department who’d taught me a class in ethics and accountability. The Dean is smarter than Torre, IMO.

  3. gogigantos - Oct 24, 2011 at 12:41 PM

    I wonder how Torre feels about TLR.

    • cur68 - Oct 24, 2011 at 12:43 PM

      Weren’t you going to bed? Your mom will kick your a** when she finds out you’re still up.

      • gogigantos - Oct 24, 2011 at 1:02 PM

        She will be here this week,, and she will be kicking my ass, crossing the Pacific just to do so,,, damn Sam I Am,, one last beer and a confused word or two more please,,, hehehe,, and some more pie Mrs Wash, them onions were goooood
        Seriously, I really didn’t know anybody was paying attention, love and good baseball to all, even in Phillie.

  4. Lukehart80 - Oct 24, 2011 at 12:44 PM

    Joe Torre talking about baseball having a rhythm that you don’t want to disrupt is laughable. Someone should force him to watch video of the Yankees stalling for pitching changes and delaying the bottom of the 7th inning far beyond the norm.

  5. airedale1950 - Oct 24, 2011 at 1:31 PM

    Tradition. No replay, no way, ever.
    Every baseball game played since the inception of the game has been subject to one invariable variable. The Umpire, and his human failings.One cannot screw with 100 plus years of history, games in the books, games decided by human prowess and human failings. The same principals that apply to the players apply to the Umpires.
    Championships, records made records lost, errors made, plays made. They are all part of the game, all part of sport…just like snow flurries and 50 minute rain delays, Lake Erie Midges and Umpires having a bad day. All these factors have contributed to make the game …this magnificent game…what it is, and what it should remain. Leave it alone, it seems to be doing quite well just the way it is.

    Sometimes adding something just contributes to taking something away.


    • seattlej - Oct 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM

      Tradition is overrated. The thing, is baseball has changed in hundreds of ways (big and small) to keep itself relevant since its inception in the mid-1800s. I don’t think we would have the packed stadiums today if the game still involved underhand pitching, the league leader in HRs was in the single digits and minorities weren’t allowed to play. The true tradition of the game is one of change in order to meet the needs of a changing society. Today, that society is again changing… video technology is abundant and available everywhere. They even have infrared cameras that allow us to see whether a foul ball nicked Adrian Beltre’s shoe. Using that play as an example, it was apparent after about 15-30 seconds that it was a foul ball. What’s the harm in getting that right?

      • seattlej - Oct 24, 2011 at 1:55 PM

        Sorry, misplaced comma… edit function please.

        But the one last thing I should have said is, if it’s apparent to just about every fan watching the game that the umpires made the wrong call, shouldn’t we allow the umpires to use the same tools that the fans have? Maybe not allowing instant replay made sense at one point — even after it became feasible. But it doesn’t make sense now that everyone has instant replay except the handful of people that actually matter.

    • natstowngreg - Oct 24, 2011 at 2:29 PM

      Tradition for its own sake is not a reason. Making a change for its own sake is not a reason.

      To say that records from a hundred years ago are based on the same game is misleading. The game has changed a lot. The equipment — the ball, bats, gloves. The playing conditions — night games, better groundskeeping. The player pool — expanded greatly. No doubt, there was grumbling about changes whenever they happened because (as with Joe Torre) some just resisted change, whether it made sense or not.

      A hundred years ago, the technology to review a play did not exist. Now it does. IMHO, it makes too much sense, and arguments against it because it’s a change make too little sense.

      That said, I wouldn’t go so far as to use the gizmos that claim to show whether a pitch is a ball or strike. This is because I’m not convinced the technology is good enough to reliably call balls and strikes without an umpire. Some day, if they can come up with something reliable enough, I’ll consider it.

    • paperlions - Oct 24, 2011 at 2:30 PM

      Ah yes, tradition. The argument for anyone that has no basis for their stance.

      PS: An invariable variable is called a constant.

      • airedale1950 - Oct 24, 2011 at 5:06 PM

        One thing remains true…and unchanged. Humans and their foibles, players and Umpires.

  6. Kyle - Oct 24, 2011 at 1:37 PM

    Garfoose for the epic Win. I can’t wait for this argument to be over T-minus never.

  7. roseann894 - Oct 24, 2011 at 3:04 PM

    Why no discussion of the substance of the issue? It should be very simple: if it can be shown 100% to be capable of being done in 1 minute or less, do it. If there will be any tendency to drag it out for 2-4 minutes (e.g. college and pro football & basketball) don’t do it. This means don’t allow advertisers or networks to have any input into the matter.

  8. The Dangerous Mabry - Oct 24, 2011 at 3:26 PM

    While I’m firmly in the camp that supports introducing expanded use of replay, it’s worth noting that the revenue produced by baseball is 100% predicated on the game being entertaining. As much as I hate to say it, if truth in this case is indeed boring, then it doesn’t belong, because we’re seeking entertainment.

    Hell, there are probably those who would argue that the current situation is better for the game’s popularity, because of all the discussion of a need for replay. “There’s no such thing as bad publicity” and all of that.

    Still, I think everyone would enjoy the game more knowing that it was fairly and accurately judged. If an inaccurately judged game is more entertaining than an accurately judged one, it probably behooves us to do something with increases the error rate, in order to spark additional excitement. And I don’t think anyone agrees with that sentiment.

    • cur68 - Oct 24, 2011 at 4:04 PM

      Mabry; I choose my words carefully, for you are Dangerous, sir. So, respectfully, there is such a venue, where error is encouraged, debate ensues and there is much drama. The ultimate bada** warrior of that sport is Mr. Ric Flair. He the Mike Young of WWE.

  9. rynev - Oct 24, 2011 at 5:46 PM

    If Torre is really worried about the flow of the game, he should look no further than the article written right after this. If “flow of the game” is what he’s concerned with, why not limit the number of pitching changes per inning? That would keep the gaming moving a lot more than preventing one or two calls a game (at most) from being corrected.

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