Comments on: Juan Gonzalez for the Hall of Fame!

By: Walk

Walk — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:50:09 +0000

Placebo effect was what i was referring to. You see articles all the time saying saying steroids did or did not help. Personally i think there is no way they could not have helped if for that very effect. The problem is i have no way of quantifying the results on a hitter. This is only hurt by fact not everyone was taking them and pitchers were taking them as well so maybe one day they had an advantage and another maybe they did not. I personally dont think you should keep a whole era of players out of the hall for steroids though. Take each case individually. If a guy like juan just barely makes it look at whether he may have been part of the scandal and let his case go before the veterans committee, they should have a better idea than the rest of us whether a player is worthy. Maybe take a guy like bonds, i think it extremely likely he was hof worthy without any aid if in fact he took a banned substance. Remember not all names on mitchell report were for steroids, they were for banned substances that would hurt players not just help them.

By: foreverchipper10

foreverchipper10 — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:33:09 +0000

Somewhere I have his rookie card which shows him batting from the other side of the plate. I bet I couldn’t get 5 bucks for it.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:59:10 +0000

I use OPS+ sometimes too because baseball-reference.com carries it and it’s easy, but it overvalues a low-walk, high-homer guy like Juan Gonzalez. Switching to wRC+ at Fangraphs.com, for those with a minimum of 3,000 PA, Gonzalez now drops to 188th for his career. Tim Salmon is the nearest match in terms of batting quality and length of career. There are many, many batters with better credentials who are not in the Hall of Fame yet.

By: Matt

Matt — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:10:44 +0000

Saying that steroids must have helped because the players wouldn’t take them if they wouldn’t help is a poor argument. Players do stupid things all the time that they believe help them which have no real effect beyond the placebo effect of making them think they’ll be better…everything from not stepping on the baseline to peeing on your hands to wearing those stupid necklaces…not one of those things has a real, measurable benefit. I’m not saying that steroids did/did not help, they probably provided some additional power to the users with the increased muscle use, but to say that they had to help because they were used is nonsense.

By: cowboysoldiertx

cowboysoldiertx — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 03:54:11 +0000

5 or 6 divorces right?

By: hushbrother

hushbrother — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:39:49 +0000

He’s a shoo-in for the Divorce Lawyers’ Hall of Fame

By: Walk

Walk — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:29:59 +0000

That is why you judge a player by the era in which they played. If steroids were rampant in era they played in then judging him by his peers at the time makes all the more sense. Besides i saw a lot of pitchers on what is saw of the mitchell report, may have been more than hitters and i really do not know what impact that had on the game. Maybe it helped pitchers, maybe it hurt them, i do not know. I cannot see it doing anything other than helping a hitters game though. I do know they would not have taken them if they did not think it would help and that by itself had an impact.

By: SmackSaw

SmackSaw — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:23:29 +0000

They could put this on his plaque;

In 2001, Gonzalez’ trainer, Angel Presinal was questioned by Canadian police when he picked up an unmarked bag containing anabolic steroids and Clenbuterol. He told the police that the bag belonged to Gonzalez, then with the Indians. Four years later, in Juiced, Jose Canseco claims to have educated Gonzalez, along with Rafael Palmeiro and Ivan Rodriguez, about steroids when they were teammates in Texas (1992-1994). He subsequently claims to have acquired steroids on behalf of all three before personally injecting each of them ‘many times.’ Canseco says all three used a combination of HGH and steroids (Deca-Durabolin and/or Winstrol) and ‘a small dose’ of injectable testosterone.

By: billymc75

billymc75 — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:22:41 +0000

As a life long Ranger fan Jaundo is not a HOFer, he should be on the wall next to other players at our park but seeing how he didn’t finish here he prob wont be

By: SmackSaw

SmackSaw — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:20:46 +0000

He’s a shoo in for the steroids HOF.

By: Walk

Walk — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:57:34 +0000

I liked to watch him when he played. It was an offensive explosion in era he played in and he still stood out. I am big fan though of judging people by era they played in, but there were some truly great players in that era and ops+ tells the true story for me. Nothing wrong with 12 page ad, i have been known to go all in myself now and again. Personally i consider him a lot like jim rice until i think about time they played in then i gotta gim jim rice the nod for having better career. But gonzo played 400ish games less so yeah closer than i would have thought.

By: apgreco

apgreco — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:46:58 +0000

Gonzalez had a chance until he hit the age of 31…..when his hitting and his career pretty much ended. Up to that point he had a great career. He did not even get 2000 hits in his career. Had he approached 500 homers and 2000+ hits, then he might have gotten in the HOF but without that….nice career until the age of 31…..