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Marlins offer to Reyes: six years, $90 million

Nov 15, 2011, 8:58 AM EDT

Jose Reyes Getty Images

Ken Rosenthal’s latest column notes that, according to one source, the Marlins offer to Jose Reyes was for six years and $90 million. That seems a bit low. And Rosenthal noticed it too, noting that:

Many in the industry are skeptical of the Marlins’ sincerity, believing that the club will make offers that are competitive, but not good enough to accept — and that the players will sign with teams that have better chances to win.

Cue that cynical stuff I’ve been saying for a while about the Marlins trying a bit harder to build buzz than an instant-contender.  Which is fine if you have a plan — no one said you have to go out and sign high-dollar free agents — but I am curious how sincere the Marlins really are about all of this.

We’ll see. Could be that Miami is in it for the long haul here and will match or beat other offers Reyes may get. And at 6/$90M for an opener, I’m guessing he’ll get some better offers.

  1. flyinhighwithvick - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:10 AM

    Hey hater Craig, I know this is just an offer, but aren’t you going to throw a temper tantrum about Reyes getting 90 million, the same way you did when the Phillies gave papelbon 50 million? Reyes is a) a clown like you, and b) always on the DL. Where’s the outrage about a player who’s always hurt getting a 6 year deal?

    Hate on hater, but Papelbon is a premier closer, the fastest ever to 200 saves, and now he’s coming to the NL, where batters have never really faced him before. Meanwhile, your Braves are looking to move Jurrjens and Prado to clear salary. Sad. Almost as sad as the attendance at Turner Field night in and night out.

    • jontler - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:12 AM

      The Philly fans here are endlessly amusing.

    • Craig Calcaterra - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:13 AM

      Awww, did someone say something about your pwecious Phillies? Did the bad man make you feel all sad? You poor, poor dear.

      It’s OK, honeybear, your team is gonna be just fine. All the hurts will go away soon. I pwomise.

      Love,

      Your Daddy

    • crimhollingsworth - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:17 AM

      “flyinhighwithvick”? Would that be Michael Vick? Sad. Almost as sad as losing to John Skelton and the Az Cardinals.

      • bigxrob - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:32 AM

        There are some Philly fans on this site that make it hard to admit that I am one.

      • flyinhighwithvick - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:39 AM

        Very good! How long did it take you to figure that out?

      • Jonny 5 - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM

        bigxrob, please no matter what idiots come out of the woodwork, never be an apologetic Philly fan. Be proud, after all these years you can finally be proud so don’t let a select few Philly fans plus the overbearing perception of others force you into that mindset. There are plenty of level headed Philly fans out there.

      • paperlions - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:48 AM

        I agree. Sane Philly fans need to make themselves known just to convince the rest of us that you aren’t all loud-mouthed, battery-throwing idiots.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:05 AM

        Paper,
        I’m not a battery throwing idiot, loud mouthed maybe….depends on who you ask.

      • Francisco (FC) - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:34 AM

        I don’t THROW batteries! Not since I use rechargeable ones anyway… In my old country we throw BEER CUPS!!!! Preferably full of Beer… or some similar liquid in color…

      • drmonkeyarmy - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:18 PM

        FC,
        I know you aren’t from Mexico, but I went down to WC qualifying in Mexico City and had the experience of some of those cups and bags of some other liquid tossed in our direction…not cool at all. So, if anybody ever has the idea of going to see United States v Mexico is Mexico City, don’t do it. The whole experience was horrible.

      • Alex K - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:27 PM

        Doc- That happens in the US, too. I have friends who have has bags of piss thrown at them at US v Mexico games.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:28 PM

        What, from the Mexican fans or American fans ?? I’ve never been to a US v Mexico match stateside.

      • Alex K - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:53 PM

        From the Mexican fans. They also had beer poured on them. They were in the midwest, too!

    • phukyouk - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:36 AM

      Papsmear is the MOST overrated closer in baseball today. I would say more but you honestly sound like a fu*king moron in your rant.

      • aceshigh11 - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:56 AM

        I realize you’re a Yankees fan but calling Papelbon the most overrated closer in baseball is a ridiculous stretch.

      • phukyouk - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:38 AM

        today, yea he is the most overrated in todays baseball.

      • bobwsc - Nov 15, 2011 at 2:13 PM

        phenomenal nickname for Papelbon!

    • Marc - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:37 AM

      Only thing worse than a Red Sox fan is a Phillies fan. Boo Santa Claus or throw anyone off the upper deck lately flyinghighwithvick? By the way, when the Nationals and the Braves are paying $475,000 each for closers that are just as good or better than your closer try not to feel jealous. Feel lucky that you root for a team that doesn’t give a shit about money. There aren’t too many.

      • flyinhighwithvick - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM

        Nothing better than riling up low life idiots on this message board. My job here is done.

      • cur68 - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:33 AM

        flyin’; love the handle you’ve chosen for yourself. Good use of irony. I may change my own in honor of yours. I was thinking of “earningmillionswithMcCourt”. Whaddyathink? Maybe I should go with a guy who’s been in jail? So perhaps “investingformyfriendswithMadoff”? Needs work, I think. Gotta capture just the right flavour of stupid behaviour with ego, with losing, with failed expectations, and just a soupçon criminal recidivism. This requires deep cogitation over the course of a football season…

      • spudchukar - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM

        Has ‘Cepts been re-incarnated?

    • JBerardi - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:46 AM

      Let’s just see how this Jimmy Rollins contract situation shakes out before we start talking about who’s overpaying for what here.

    • stlouis1baseball - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:00 AM

      Moron: Premier Closer or not…you don’t offer the kind of monies (and length)…the Phillies offered Papelbon. Mariano isn’t worth this…and Papelbon is no Mariano.
      It appears you were dropped on your head a lot as a toddler. Shoo fly!

    • CJ - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:19 PM

      Dude, 6/90 for Reyes is cheap. 4/50 for a closer who won’t even pitch 100 innings a season is not…there’s not a single closer in baseball that deserves that deal right now. Not Papelbon, not Rivera, NO ONE. It’s the facts of life. Stop making us all look like idiots.

    • cosanostra71 - Nov 15, 2011 at 3:40 PM

      is it possible to thumbs this down twice please?

    • pjmarn6 - Nov 15, 2011 at 7:53 PM

      Several hockey teams are losing a hell of a lot of money and salaries are going to fall like a rock in NBA and the baseball owners still have their heads where the sun don’t shine. These people are players and they should be paid as players nor fuc*ing gods. Giradi has two multimillion dollar homes and Jeter just had a 10 bedroom mansions built for himself on Tampa Bay!
      And all the halfwits who paid for those overpriced tickets food, beer, special tv channels, all of you feathered their nests. Then you are going to cry when the cupboard is bare for your retirement. Remember you earned it by dumping your money on these idiots!

  2. hushbrother - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:13 AM

    Why does that seem low? Is Reyes really an obvious $20 million a year player? He’s a good player, no doubt. Kind of the way Michael Young is a good player. Young and Reyes, incidentally, have the same career OPS+, 106.

    I guess leading the league in batting average automatically elevates you to 20mil a year status.

    • Alex K - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:38 AM

      Reyes is a much better fielder than Young.

      Career fielding runs at SS (ss per Fangraphs)

      Reyes- 13.5 (2.1 UZR/150)
      Young- -55.5 (-10.2 UZR/150)

      • Ari Collins - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:33 AM

        As Alex points out, OPS+ entirely ignored fielding, something Reyes is far far better at than Young. It also ignores baserunning (another huge Reyes advantage).

      • Francisco (FC) - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:36 AM

        All true, BTW which stat takes into account injuries?

      • Ari Collins - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:44 AM

        WAR. Reyes’ production is so great that, even with missing 20% of the season the last two years, he’s been worth a ton.

      • Francisco (FC) - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:55 AM

        Hmm… still, how do you assess injury risk vs expected production? I mean with that history is Reyes likely to still just miss 20% of a season or with the repeated injuries is he in higher risk of having an injury that will cost him 50% of a season or maybe the whole season? Perhaps his contract should have bonuses for staying healthy? Is that legal? of maybe he should only be guaranteed 4 years and have years 5 and 6 options that vest based on plate appearances. I know THAT’s legal, except I’m sure Reyes would laugh off such an offer.

      • Alex K - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:24 PM

        FC- I don’t know if it is possible to come up with a stat like that. Every person is different and every injury is different. That is the problem with long term contracts. You can always end up with it being Carl Pavano’s Yankees contract.

        The only way I can figure that to be possible is to look at a player’s injury history and medical records during the physical and try and decide if it is worth the risk.

      • Ari Collins - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:53 PM

        It’s hard indeed to project injury risk. Plenty of projection systems simply use recent games played. The Bill James projection has him at 133 games next year at slightly above his career offensive rate stats.

        Buyer beware, but I personally think he’s worth $20MM because of how great he is when he is on the field. Especially if you can get a guy on the right side of 30 for “only” six years.

  3. Jonny 5 - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:27 AM

    I’d say that offer isn’t too far off the mark actually. Signing an already injury prone SS to six years until he’s 35 years old is quite a risk. SS’s get beat up a little. I was thinking 70 million for 4 myself.

  4. Marc - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:32 AM

    Listen, this whole Marlins stuff is just business, clear and simple. Don’t get wrapped up in it. Ballclubs have two main revenue streams when it comes to the ballpark: Season tickets & sponsorship. November, December, and January are all about keeping revenue streams moving. Throwing around big names and taking them to dinner sells tickets and outfield billboards. If you take Albert Pujols to dinner and that dinner costs $1,000, but you sell four season tickets to some schmuck based upon that for $4,000 you’ve made money plus had a nice dinner with a hall of famer. Everybody wins except the schmuck who’s expecting to see Pujols, but he could have wasted that money on a 401K that’ll be worth nothing in a year or so the way the economy is going, so maybe he came out ahead too.

    • ta192 - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:31 PM

      Accurate and interesting, but really depressing, analysis…sigh…

  5. illbringdabeers - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM

    I’ve never posted on here before, although I have been following for what seems like ever now. I’ve seen a lot of things that, as a Phillies fan, annoy me when I see certain comments come up. I have now gone and made any account just to comment on something here. I’m sorry for my fellow Phillies fans that need to add a comment about our team on to every comment section no matter what the story is. Please know that there are die hards out there that like to come onto this site just for news updates and occasionally read the comments section. Perception is reality, and if my fan base is viewed as douchy by everyone it makes us douches, and this sucks for the normal fans out there. Sorry for my rant, have a great day everyone

    • Jonny 5 - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:50 AM

      No, it doesn’t make “us” douches. It makes “them” douches.

      • flyinhighwithvick - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:05 AM

        No, No Jonny, you’re a douche too.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:13 AM

        Leave Jonny alone!!!!

      • phillyphreak - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:36 AM

        @flyin. I thought your job was done at 9:42 am. Does this qualify as overtime for you? Isn’t crossing broad sad that you’re commenting on another website? Do they allow that or will they start a twitter war against you too?

        As a Phillies fan, I myself have a hard time figuring out if the nutball douchebags outnumber the rational fans. I’d like to think that there are are a lot more of the latter. The problem is that the douchebag fans get a voice on radio at various frequencies…..

        As an aside, I feel like there are more internet trolls here since the season ended…..

      • paperlions - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:15 PM

        I enjoy the comments and respect the baseball knowledge of most of the regular Philly Phan commenters here on HBT…FC, Drmonkey, Jonny, et al. are all good contributors of both content and amusement…most of us ignore the transient Philly trolls that pop up from time to time…but I understand the sentiment/embarrassment. Any time a Cardinal troll shows up (which seemed common during the playoffs), I am embarrassed by the association.

      • Alex K - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:32 PM

        Lucky the Cubs have stunk the last couple years so we haven’t had any Cubs trolls to make us Cubs fans look bad.

        That said, I would take a million Cubs trolls for a World Series.

    • phukyouk - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:16 AM

      I Know you are but what am I!

      Nice one Flyin!

      Your over J5

      • phukyouk - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:16 AM

        over?

        Move*

        EDIT

  6. hooks024 - Nov 15, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    Jeez. Lot of money for an over rated guy who’s only bound to get less healthy as his career goes on. Suckers!

  7. shrimpking55 - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:33 AM

    How can any one say that 90 mil is low balling Jose Reyes? That’s an average of 15mil a year and more than what I thought the Marlins would offer. Now if they offered Reyes 90mil, how much did they offer Pujols?

    • stlouis1baseball - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:56 AM

      Great question Shrimp. I am hoping they offered him somewhere in the neighborhood of $12.00.

      • paperlions - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:18 PM

        You mean $12.05, right?

  8. thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:30 AM

    Why isn’t that a sincere enough first offer for Reyes? If you start the bidding at $100 million, the price to sign him will likely end up going up to $120. Is he really worth that much money? Its not lowballing, its negotiating. There’s only 3 FA’s this offseason that are worth $100 million, Pujols, Fielder, and Sabathia.

    • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:45 AM

      It’s an insincere offer because of who made it.

      • thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:46 PM

        That’s a load of crap. They never raised there payroll before because they were restricted by the fact that the dolphins owner would make all the profit off parking, concessions, etc. Now that the Marlins will make 100% profit off everything, the payroll was always going to go up. The Marlins front office is one of the best in baseball, like it or not. They were able to stay competitive and win 2 world series with a low payroll. Now imagine what they’re capable of with a $100 million dollar payroll. The Marlins are not the Pirates or the Royals. They will be competitive as long as Jeffery Loria is the owner and they play in that new ballpark.

      • CJ - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:42 PM

        until 3 years from now when they have to cut payroll becuase the new digs aren’t quite as shiny. See: Twins, Minnesota.

      • thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 2:54 PM

        The Twins play in Minnesota, not Miami. Huge difference. Miami is way more appealing to free agents. That and a boatload of money to spend.

      • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2011 at 4:15 PM

        thejotapee:

        Ahem. One of those world series was wonby Wayne Huizinga’s ownership with a pretty substantial payroll (Gary Sheffield. Bobby Bonilla. Charles Johnson. Al Leiter. Et al.) Last season, if you perhaps noticed, they finished dead last, a whole lot of games under .500. That’s…competitive? And the object of a baseball team isn’t to “stay competitive” until August; it’s to win. Also, while they were suffering under the horrors of their income restrictions, Scrooge McLoria was running the most per capita profitable team in baseball and idiot fans like you were whining sympathetically about the poor lad and his “please sir, I want some more” style of poverty. Then of course there’s the infamous blatant misrepresentation of the team’s finances to the polity of Macondo in an effort to have to pay as little of the cost of Macondo Banana Massacre Field as possible…but why should I confuse you with the facts? You’re a gullible fool who seems to have been smacked on the hands with a ruler for playing with your poopoo as an infant, and who now needs to have your rooting interest’s team ownership poop on you and the rest of its fans to compensate for it.

      • thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 4:45 PM

        Old Gator: Loria was the owner when they won in ’03 genius.

        And big reason why they finished dead last was their two best players missed most if not the entire season. Shit happens. Other than last season, they’ve finished 2nd or 3rd in a tough NL East for most of the past 8 seasons with a low payroll. Only the Rays did better with a small payroll.

      • tacklemeelmo - Nov 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

        @CJ

        Twins had 2nd highest attendance in the AL last year despite losing 99 games. Not so shiny anymore? I don’t quite follow..

      • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2011 at 10:12 PM

        thejotapee: I did write one of those world series was won under Huizinga didn’t I, clueless? And frankly, Dave Dombrowski’s fingerprints were all over the 2003 team. Beinfest did a great job of filling in the missing parts, yes, but in the ensuing years the best they’ve been able to be is competitive into August and not much more – aside from the one surprise year when Joe Girardi had them playing over their heads and got canned for his troubles by your bunch of cheapskate Einsteins.

        They finished dead last this season because Ricky Nolasco was inconsistent, Javy Vasquez didn’t hit his stride until the Allstar Break, but mostly because their situational hitting sucked even when Hanley was on the field – .156 with RISP (although that might have been Tweeter’s RISP, but the team stat wasn’t much better). As I’ve noted periodically, the Hanster had already hit a 40-point skid in his BA in 2010 so to blame the abject inability of his teammates to plate runs when it counted on his not being there just doesn’t fly.

        Wake up and smell the coffee. Scrooge McLoria pocketed a fortune while he was crying poverty, and you fell for it.

  9. thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:40 AM

    My guess is the Marlins offered Reyes a 3 year, $65-75 million deal (making him the highest paid shortstop in the league for the next 3 years), with an option for 3 more seasons (that would bring the total amount to 6/$90 million). This works for both sides because the Marlins would only be paying big for productive seasons, while it also gives Reyes the opportunity to cash in big again 3 years from now. The deal would sort off be similar to Sabathia’s previous deal with the Yankees where he opted out after his 3rd year of the deal.

    • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2011 at 11:46 AM

      Earth to Scrooge McLoria and the Chihuahua: you can get creative at art auctions. But ballplayers will sign with the highest bidder.

      • thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 12:52 PM

        3/$70 million in the 1st 3 years would make them the highest bidder guy! No one is going to give him 6 years, $25 million a year! If they do, then they can have him. He would be the highest paid shortstop in baseball the next three seasons and will be able to sign another lucrative deal in his prime, the same way Sabathia did.

      • CJ - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM

        why do you keep referencing CC? His opt out was HIS option, not the team’s. Maybe I’m misremembering and it was mutual, but under those circumstances there’s no way the Yanks would’ve opted out. Of course CC would opt out after being one of the best pitchers in baseball in the most high pressure market, bar none. With a great health record, no less (weight concerns aside).

        With Reyes you seem speak of a TEAM option or mutual option. Huge difference. And with a 30+ SS with a big injury history, if the option was Reyes’ you can bet he’d pick that one up in a heartbeat regardless. No way he gives that option to the team given his history.

      • thejotapee - Nov 15, 2011 at 2:52 PM

        I never said a team option CJ, you completely misunderstood. The Reyes deal I propose would be similar to Sabathia’s in that it would be his option! I never said a team option, that would be an awful deal for Reyes. A player option or mutual option would benefit both sides.

      • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2011 at 4:18 PM

        Quick, since you know all about this stuff, call Reyes right now and explain to him what Scrooge McLoria and the Chihuahua really meant.

  10. deathmonkey41 - Nov 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM

    If Reyes signs with the Marlins, he better hope Bruce Chen stays in the American League. Because according to his new manager, there’s nothing more painful than losing the f—— game against Bruce Chen. Nothing against Bruce Chen though, he has a lot of respect for the kid.

  11. henryd3rd - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:52 AM

    Can the Marlins put an injury rider into that contract offer; which states that their not required to pay him when her dogs it, refusing to speak to reporters, makes a stupid play or if he’s injured? Can you spell injury prone?

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