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The Marlins offer to Pujols was less than $200 million

Nov 16, 2011, 3:30 PM EDT

pujols reuters Reuters

We heard in the wee hours this morning that the Marlins had made a nine-year offer to Albert Pujols.  Shock! Dismay! Excitement!

And now we hear from Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald that the offer was for less than $200 million.  Which means that it was almost certainly less than the $22 million a year offer the Cardinals have long been thought to have on the table for Pujols.

Which makes me continue to think that with Jose Reyes, Albert Pujols and everyone else the Marlins talk to, the strategy is to be able to create the impression that they’re trying to do big things but that, in reality, they’re just screwing around. You’re not going to pry Pujols away from the Cardinals with comparable dollars. He’s comfortable there and can take advantage of all manner of opportunities and conveniences there that he will not be able to take advantage of if he joins a new team. You gotta make it worth his while, and a <$22M/year offer isn’t that.

When you’re the Marlins — coming off a losing season and looking  to build some credibility in the market — you gotta go big or go home.  Thus far, they don’t seem to be going big.

  1. cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:33 PM

    Well, it appears the the Cardinals have the best chance to retain Albert. I heard that the redbirds offered him 8 years and 22 MIl. Is that correct?

    • stlouis1baseball - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:52 PM

      I “heard”it was for around $22 million a year as well (for 8 years). But nothing was made public. In fact, I have been impressed with the tight lipped negotiations through the entire negotiating process. This is something that A.P. (and the organization) insisted upon from the very beginning. Of course…St. Louis is always tight lipped so that is not necessarily out of the ordinary. I am just glad the $25 million a year report mentioned earlier today is proving false. If he stays in St. Louis…you realize Joey is going to have to earn that G.G. next year as well right?

      • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:30 PM

        Yes, we know that, however, Joey is younger, quicker and a little more nimble than Albert, so we have faith that he will. Good luck.

      • thejotapee - Nov 16, 2011 at 10:56 PM

        If the deal the Cards offered is indeed 8/22 per and he Marlins offer is 9/22 per than why is the Marlins offer being looked at as a publicity stunt? Just because it’s the Marlins?

    • lovesmesomeme - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:06 PM

      How the hell is he going to live on 9yrs/$200 million? What about the statue he just had built of himself? WWJD Albert?

      • paperlions - Nov 16, 2011 at 7:23 PM

        Make up his own religion so people worship him?

  2. okwhitefalcon - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:40 PM

    More coming out of STL now regarding AP, local radio guy JC Corcoran has tweeted Albert and the Cards announcing a new deal as soon as Friday.

    https://twitter.com/#!/stljccorcoran

    I would dismiss this as pure hooey but JC was the first break the TLR retirement story so take it for what it’s worth.

    • okwhitefalcon - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:46 PM

      Lots of denials coming out of the Cardinal camp regarding the above, Mozeliak quoted as saying rumors are “Totally false”…

      Tis the silly season….

      • stlouis1baseball - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:08 PM

        Yep…and this is the latest from JC (about two minutes ago).
        “Despite official denials I have no reason to amend the Pujols story. I believe it to be accurate.”

        I know I sure hope it’s 100% accurate. Still kind hard to believe as notoriously tight lipped both sides have always been. We can hope and cross our fingers though right?

      • umrguy42 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM

        Ah, JC – man, I hope he’s right!

  3. phightingphish - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:51 PM

    No state taxes… Just saying.

    • mondogarage - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:54 PM

      Oh, there’s a HUGE tax….having to play for Jeffrey Loria.

    • okobojicat - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:01 PM

      This is actually not true. Professional athletes pay income taxes in every state they play in for the period of days (as a % of their income) that they are in that state. So, if you make $100million, and you spend 3 days in California, and their rate is 5%, then you have to pay 100million*3/365*5%.

      I just read an article about this the other day, but can’t seem to find it.

      • Kyle - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:05 PM

        Was it perhaps “The Jock Tax” over at Fangraphs?

        http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-jock-tax/

      • umrguy42 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:36 PM

        Although… the City of St. Louis has its own income tax. I wonder if pro players have to pay both Missouri AND St. Louis when they come through for MLB, NFL, or NHL…

      • umrguy42 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:41 PM

        Kyle, good article. Presuming the answer to my musings is “yes”.

        (As an aside, due to working on a contract basis, I’ve had several of the past years where I was able to reduce my taxes owed to my official state of residence due to credit for taxes paid to the state of employment – EXCEPT for last year, when I went permanent, and switched to a full-time resident of the new state. THEN I got screwed over…)

      • phightingphish - Nov 17, 2011 at 1:31 AM

        Am I missing something from that article.because from what I read it does make a difference, and it makes a difference what the schedule is. Sure he won’t get a full season of no state tax due to travel but he’ll still get a majority of it. He’ll bring home more money but yes, living expenses will be higher. Who cares, it’s Miami. No offense St.Louis I’m sure it’s really cool there, but i think most people would rather live in Miami, especially if you’re loaded.

      • phightingphish - Nov 17, 2011 at 1:32 AM

        edit function?

    • addictedzone - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:43 PM

      at 6% MO state tax in Albert’s pay stratosphere, a 188 mil contract in Miami is just about equivalent to a 200 mil contract in St Louis.

      • paperlions - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:56 PM

        Of course, the cost of living in Miami compared to St. Louis is far greater than a 6% increase, meaning that $188M in StL is worth far more than $200M in Miami.

      • paperlions - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:58 PM

        To be specific, the cost of living in Miami is about 17% higher than in StL….so even after taxes, that is an 11% advantage for StL.

      • JBerardi - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:49 PM

        I really don’t think this stuff matters. Athletes take the max contract for ego reasons, because the players union wants them too, etc… they’re not thinking as much about how much actual income they’ll get once you adjust for everything.

        I mean, is there any low-tax, low cost of living city that consistently gets free agents for less than market value? I can’t think of one.

      • spudchukar - Nov 16, 2011 at 7:14 PM

        St. Louis.

  4. okobojicat - Nov 16, 2011 at 3:58 PM

    “You gotta make it worth his while, and a <$22M/year offer isn’t that."

    Phrases that make me hate how weak my right shoulder became.

  5. hotkarlsandwich - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:02 PM

    Meatball Problems…

  6. WhenMattStairsIsKing - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:02 PM

    The Marlins really are a bizarrely-run team.

    • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM

      Yes, this is very true. They had a very low payroll for 2011, and had a lot of room to hire Albert, but balked at the 23 Mil figure, which would probably still keep them below a 85 Mil annual payroll, and then they can get rid of Hanley and pay Reyes. they are a very big market, but then again, no one attends the games. I don’t know what gives there.

      • JBerardi - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:50 PM

        Ask Gator.

    • Old Gator - Nov 16, 2011 at 9:17 PM

      They don’t go because they’ve been shit on, lied to and played cheap by ownership here since 1998. No one seems to get the point that building a fan base takes time and consistency of effort. If they don’t realize immediate windfalls from prior successes, they throw up their hands and impose “market corrections,” in the Chihuahua’s memorable phrase. And I’ll repeat what I wrote to that befuddled nitwit yesterday on a prior thread: no one respects an ownership that barely keeps a team “competitive.” They respect an ownership that is visibly trying to win.

  7. Kyle - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:11 PM

    I was really interested to see the Marlins make some moves and shake things up in that division, and now it just seems like they’re having a laugh with this garbage.

  8. illcomm - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:26 PM

    You have to take into account that Florida has no income tax. Illinois has 5% state plus 1% city. So let’s say cardinels offered 9 @ 22.5 per 202.5 total. Marlins would only need to offer about 9 @ 21.15 per. That would be just above 190 Mil. So the contract makes a lot of sense.

    • Kevin S. - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:29 PM

      A) Read the Fangraphs’ like on the jock tax, posted above. You can’t just compare income tax rates that way.

      B) Last time I checked, St. Louis was not in Illinois.

    • cardsrepeat2012 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM

      Er, St. Louis is in Missouri not Illinois.

    • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:37 PM

      What does Illinois have to do with it? They are in Missouri!

    • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:39 PM

      Oh, don’t tell me, you must have gone to public school, right illcomm? Perhaps East St. Louis?

      • thefalcon123 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM

        “Perhaps East St. Louis?”

        Is there any other St. Louis?*

        *Home Simpson

      • thefalcon123 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:49 PM

        HomeR Simpson.

        …lousy fingers not depressing the keys when and in the order I want them to.

      • JBerardi - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:52 PM

        The fingers you have used to type are too fat. To obtain a special typing wand, please mash the keyboard with your palm now…

  9. rjmarrella - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:26 PM

    what good would trotting in Pujols and Reyes be, in regards to publicity, once the low ball offers were leaked to the press?
    unless the sales pitch included playing with one another. you have to figure that in preliminary conversations that numbers were discussed between both of the player’s agents and the marlins.
    for these guys to even come in for a tour means the numbers were in the ball park.

  10. illcomm - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:39 PM

    Missouri…Illinois…allow the same. Just a percent higher. Either way Marlins offer to Reyes and Pujos are legit. Last I checked, Miami is just a tad more desirable to live.

    • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:02 PM

      Define TAD. If that is the case, why does no one go to the games? Miami has all of the things which make the city great, and no one is interested in the team. Do they all spend their money on boats or what?

      • blueintown - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:40 PM

        Yes.

  11. okwhitefalcon - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:44 PM

    More Cards news confirmed by the St Louis Post Dispatch -

    The coaching staff for new Cardinals manager Mike Matheny is set:

    Pitching coach: Dave Duncan. No surprise here. He was under contract for one more seasonand had expressed his desire to return.

    First-base coach: Chris Maloney, up from Triple-A Memphis where he had been manager for five years. He also had interviewed for the managing job.

    Third-base coach: Jose Oquendo returns. Oquendo had been a candidate for the managerial position. This will be his 13th season as third-base coach.

    Bench coach: Mike Aldrete gets a promotion from assistant batting instructor to an important, full-time spot.

    Bullpen coach: Derek Lillliquist returns.

    Hitting coach: Mark McGwire is back for a third season.

    Being reassigned within the organization are Dave McKay, the first base coach for 16 years under La Russa, and Joe Pettini, the team’s bench coach the last 10 years

    Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/cards-coaching-staff-set-oquendo-mcgwire-returning/article_6c615b2a-1096-11e1-af53-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1duIE7Buu

    • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:55 PM

      Yes, I saw that article too. However what does reassigned within the organization mean? Are they going to be front office, or scouts or manage one of the farm teams? Or does anyone know yet?

      • okwhitefalcon - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:06 PM

        No word just yet, official announcement happening right now.

        The key retentention was obviously Oquendo in regards to resigning Albert, it’ll be interesting to see where Dave McKay and Joe Pettini end up within the organization.

  12. Ben - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM

    Gotta wonder if Pujols misread the market since all the big-money teams have a 1B, or won’t pay for a 1B. I’m sure he’ll still get big bucks, but with NYY and BOS out of the bidding, Texas seemingly not throwing money at him, and the Cubs not making a move, it’s getting interesting. I wonder about someone like the Angels making a move. It also doesn’t help that teams view Fielder as a pretty decent second-place prize.

    • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:58 PM

      I fully expected the Cubs to go after him, especially since they are not going to resign Rameriz at third. They must have some room to pay since they are not under the Milton Bradley salary any longer.

      • comeonnowguys - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:29 PM

        The Cubs will absolutely not go after him. It flies in the face of the new regime’s philosophy of rebuilding.

      • paperlions - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:30 PM

        I don’t expect the Cubs to go after him. Simply put, their organization is not at a point where it would be beneficial….his best years would be wasted, and by the time they have the organizational depth and talent to seriously compete on an annual basis, he’d be nearing the albatross years. That organization needs to be re-built from the ground up, they have very little in the farm system, and little young talent on the MLB roster that is under 30 (Soto, Castro, nothing else that is even a solid regular, Garza and little else in the rotation).

      • cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:51 PM

        Yes, you may be right, however if you ask the Cubs fans, they think that 2013 is the year. That gives Albert one year to blend with the team.

      • 78mu - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:43 PM

        if you ask the Cubs fans, they think that 2013 is the year.

        That’s funny. It always takes 105 years to get to that magic moment.

      • blueintown - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:43 PM

        The Milton Bradley salary? Try Alfonso Soriano, Carlos Zambrano, Ryan Dempster, Carlos Marmol, and Koske Fukudome (whom I believe they are still paying). That team is littered with bad paper. They may make a mid-level move this offseason, if even that.

      • spudchukar - Nov 16, 2011 at 7:19 PM

        If you ask Cubs fans, every year is going to be their year.

      • umrguy42 - Nov 17, 2011 at 12:01 PM

        “If you ask Cubs fans, every year is going to be their year …usually until about May.”

        FTFY.

  13. Jonny 5 - Nov 16, 2011 at 4:50 PM

    So he went all the way to Miami to be lowballed? Nice… Jeffy strikes again…

  14. cintiphil - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:04 PM

    Looks like Fielder is king now. But, how much are the teams willing to pay, if Albert was not paid more? Prince may get 18-19 Mil if he is lucky.

  15. skeleteeth - Nov 16, 2011 at 5:14 PM

    Pujols staying in St. Louis makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. alan3008 - Nov 16, 2011 at 6:05 PM

    He’ll wind up with the Yankees and the Yankees will move or SK Texiera.

  17. crankyfrankie - Nov 16, 2011 at 7:25 PM

    I really believed, perhaps an gullible idiot, that Miami was serious about spending. Low balling the best player in the game? Seriously Jeff and Company might be worst owner in baseball once McCourt sells.

    • Old Gator - Nov 16, 2011 at 9:52 PM

      The Feesh are serious about spending…as little as they can get away with.

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