Comments on: Tossup Alert: The AL MVP to be announced at 2pm Eastern

By: marshmallowsnake

marshmallowsnake — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:44:08 +0000

I know pitchers have won, and will win in the future. I just think that the Cy Young is their MVP and that the MVP ahould be for hitters.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:23:28 +0000

I’m not now!

By: cur68

cur68 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:37:55 +0000

You're not doing it right, Jonny: "The Phillies are a dead lock to win the WS. Hear me?? 4 aces, who loses with 4 aces?? And they're American!

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:35:10 +0000

Are you trying to say that a DH who ranks 4th on his own team in OPS isn’t the league’s most valuable player?

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:30:56 +0000

If a first baseman and center fielder put up the exact same offensive line, the center fielder is better. This is where the defensive spectrum comes in:

C-SS-2B-CF-3B-RF-LF-1B (though some versions switch center field and 3B). From left to right, it shows the ability to find players capable of playing that position at an acceptable level defensively. That’s why so many sluggers are first baseman…it’s easier to play their at an acceptable defensive level! In many cases, assuming equal defensive at their position, a .300/.380/.480 catcher is more valuable than a .310/.390/.500 1st baseman.

Also, Ellsbury is better defensively and a better baserunner. As amazing as he was, Gonzalez may have been the Sox 3rd best player in 2011! How did they not make the playoffs again?

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:26:37 +0000

Michael Young got a 1st and 2nd place vote, unbelievable

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:20:10 +0000

I would have gone with Bautista, but Verlander I would hardly call is “bullshit”. The guy won the pitching triple crown, lead the league in innings pitched and tied Bautista for the lead in bWAR.

Andrew Dawson in 87 was bullshit.
Juan Gonzalez in 96 and 98 was bullshit
Willie Hernandez and Dennis Eckersley was bullshit
Miguel Tejada was bullshit

But this was a case of two great players (Ellsbury and Cabrera deserve their props too) and being forced to pick one. It’s was pretty impossible the BBWAA to screw this up.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:19:06 +0000

Do you one better:

wRC:

MIN – 84
CHW – 89
LAA – 96
KCR – 102
CLE – 96
TBR – 103
OAK – 90
BAL – 97

By: philliesblow

philliesblow — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:16:41 +0000

No, it’s justice. He was the best, most dominating and most valuable player in the league.

By: phukyouk

phukyouk — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:11:54 +0000

Verlander won and its bullshit!

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:10:51 +0000

The Phillies are a dead lock to win the WS.. Hear me?? 4 aces, who loses with 4 aces??

By: icanspeel

icanspeel — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:08:32 +0000

This may be a stupid question, but really I don’t know the answer.. Why is Adrian Gonzalez not mentioned at all when his stats are very comparable, if not better in some areas than Jacob Ellsbury? For the record I think neither should win, but just for the purpose of discussion

By: skeleteeth

skeleteeth — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:06:26 +0000

Yup.

By: mabunar

mabunar — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:05:56 +0000

lol, you’ll lop off the SBs because he was 72% vs 75%.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:03:26 +0000

List of teams he faced:

MIN
CHW
LAA
KCR
CLE
MIN
TBR
MIN
CHW
CLE
CHW
OAK
BAL

Not exactly murderer’s row here

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:57:16 +0000

According to fangraphs:
Baustista WAR of 8.3
Ellsbury WAR of 9.4

Sure, I mean if one factors only OPS in the determination of who had a better year then Bautista would get the nod. Now, factor in SB, basrunning, and defense. So, how is it dishonest that I think Ellsbury had a better overall season?

By: TomTom

TomTom — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:52:21 +0000

That was my point initially…you stated it much better than I.

By: skeleteeth

skeleteeth — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:47:36 +0000

I would do the quotes if I knew how but:

2.28 ERA 0.93 WHIP 91 K 23 BB 87 IP 58 H

over those 12 starts.

By: cur68

cur68 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:45:59 +0000

Gonna be a long post season for Jonny, Len. Poor man faces a regular season with Papelbon on his team and Wiggington as the answer to a right handed power bat. His apoplexy should be ‘biceptual by spring training if they don’t shore up the hitting.

By: cur68

cur68 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:39:05 +0000

Fits Granderson, too.

By: wendell7

wendell7 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:37:52 +0000

You can take the bandbox argument out of the equation for Ellsbury since most of his homers at home were bombs into or over the bullpen, not hooking liners around the Pesky pole. Plus, he put up his numbers primarily from the leadoff spot, not the 3 or 4 hole. While I’ll agree Bautista is a premier power hitter, you expect his type of numbers from your 3 or 4 hitter. Throw in Jacoby’s 39 stolen bases and gold-glove defense and I think the award has to go to him.

Plus, speaking of dishonesty …. we never heard any accusations of pitch tipping from the Fenway outfield this season.

By: cur68

cur68 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:36:44 +0000

I think because its expected of me I shall engage in hyperbolic rage-statements when Bautista doesn't win but, in truth, it could be anyone and will be anyone but Bautista simply based voter tendency to vote the straight post season ticket.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:32:29 +0000

So you’re saying it didn’t matter during those 12 consecutive starts that it was Verlander and not Porcello on the mound

7/26 – 8IP 4 ER – Win
8/27 – 6IP 4 ER – Win
9/7 – 6 IP 4 ER – Win

By: mabunar

mabunar — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:31:10 +0000

baseball reference gives both parks a 105 (favorable to hitters rating)

In regards to HRs, ESPN shows Toronto with a 1.186 rating
and Fenway with a .880….over 1.0 favoring the hitters.

By: rhandome

rhandome — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:31:02 +0000

Lol, way to cite team-dependent stats like runs and rbi.

Bautista: 1.055 OPS, 181 OPS+, .441 wOBA
Cabrera: 1.034 OPS, 181 OPS+, .436 wOBA
Ellsbury: .928 OPS, 146 OPS+, .402 wOBA

Also, a player needs to steal bases at a 75% success rate to add value to his team. Ellsbury had 15 CS to go along with his 39 SB.

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:30:35 +0000

The two admitted Sox fans are trumpeting Verlander and Bautista. So… yeah.

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:25:01 +0000

I think Bautista still had a better year, but not bringing in their defense, position, baserunning, and the fact that Toronto is quite a bandbox itself (and Fenway unfriendly to left-handed power), obscures the facts.

By: skeleteeth

skeleteeth — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:23:26 +0000

I think that was meant for you. Nested quotes don’t nest.

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:22:34 +0000

What do you mean, biased? I think Bautista should win, and I’m a Sox fan.

By: Ari Collins

Ari Collins — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:21:28 +0000

… he’s a Sox fan, so he wants the non-Sox player to win?

I think you’re doing it wrong.