Actually, anyone who ignores the criteria should probably lose their vote. So I’m flip-flopping a bit. If you’re in a tiny minority on one of your votes, you should be put on probation. And if you do it twice, there should be a hearing about whether you keep your vote. (I’m a due process guy.)

Yes, no one should vote for Phil Nevin or Jeromy Burnitz. But I wouldn’t get too worked up over it.

As for you Steve, I remember the arguments about greatest ballplayer of all time. For me it will always be Mays. And not because of one great catch: he made dozens like that. How many gold gloves was it? 11, 12? All Star appearances? More than 20, right? .302 BA, lifetime. He was the best ever. That’s why he’s in the HOF. That catch was great, but it was just Mays being Mays.

As for the list of potential inductees, Barry Larkin > Jack Morris. Because Larkin was flat out better at his baseball responsibilities than Morris was at his. Bernie Williams < Bagwell & Raines, same reasons. Edgar Marinez, just cause I always liked Edgar.

This is not about hilight reels or you and me. This is about these guys being really really good at baseball as compared to their peers.

I agree with you on Mays though. All they ever show of him is that catch.

Same with Babe ruth, all they show is that hyperlegged home run trot. He Sucks.

I understand the anti-steroid argument for guys like Bonds and Clemens, but doesn’t a guy like Murphy get credit for being a feared hitter with reduced 80′s-era stats on the flip side? I know he’s weak on longevity, but he was a fantastic player at his peak, and his peak wasn’t that short, was it?

Also, he threw a no-hitter. Only 5 behind Ryan!

1. “You are absolutely naive not to think the WS performances are not what is rembered. Look how Kirk Gibson is thought about. Same with Reggie Jackson.”

-Well, of course they are. They just aren’t the *only* things that are remember. People also remember the more than 500 regular season home runs he hit, the 37 bombs he hit in the 1st half of 1969 (and the disappointing 10 he hit in the 2nd half), for being one of the best players of his era, and for being a kind of a dick. I remember Henry Miller as some dude a book that I was too embarrassed to get past the first 5 pages of when I was 13, but I’m betting other people remember him in a different way.

-”Based on your idiot #’s theory of how many HR’s that Mays & Jackson had. Then Canseco, Sosa, McGwire should all be in the hall of fame.”
First off, I think McGwire and Sosa SHOULD be in the hall of fame their exclusion will be much more due to steroids than their numbers.
Umm..Mays and Jackson could have never played a postseason game in their life and still be 1st ballot, no doubt hall of famers. Here’s my logic: Willie Mays>Ernie Banks. Ernie Banks never played in a postseason game. Ernie Banks was a no doubt hall of famer. Also, both Mays and Jackson did many, many other things besides hit homeruns.

“Tell me how you remember Jackson & Mays then. ”
As being really f**king awesome at baseball.

“Jackson as an Oriole or A? Mays as a Met?”
Umm…yeah, a lot of people remember Reggie Jackson as an A. Hell, I think of Jackson as an A, he played twice as many games with them. And I remember Mays as a Giant because he was really damn awesome with them, not because of one catch.

“Who do you think should be in the hall of fame

How do you think they are remembered

Their storied careers or a great performance.”–
–So, please, share with me the great moments that got Johnny Mize, Fergie Jenkins, Ernie Banks, Joe Morgan, Ted Williams, Stan Musial or virtually any other player in the hall of fame. Cause I look at them and see great season after great season, not one play….or are you seriously advocating David Freese’s future inclusion in the hall of fame?

Michael Jordan

Do I really need to go further?

You did win me over with your provocative and well thought out “Barry Larkin sucks” argument though. Well played!

Based on your idiot #’s theory of how many HR’s that Mays & Jackson had. Then Canseco, Sosa, McGwire should all be in the hall of fame.

Tell me how you remember Jackson & Mays then.

Jackson as an Oriole or A? Mays as a Met?

Shut up

Clyde Falcon Cur Joe
Your reasoning is embarrasing

You had to look the #’s up too

Fools

Have the balls to make your own post

Who do you think should be in the hall of fame

How do you think they are remembered

Their storied careers or a great performance.

The latter obviously unless you are a chimp brain & lying to yourself

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the single dumbest baseball related quote I’ve ever read. Raines isn’t a hall of famer because he didn’t get caught stealing enough times?

I would further make fun of Gerry, but a little lower down, Tracy Ringolsby said that Vince Coleman was better than Tim Raines, thus removing Gerry’s stupid crown.

How does one get to be a sportswriter? Because knowing anything at all about sports clearly isn’t a requirement.

He was probably the greatest Astro ever. I would never say otherwise. My point was more that he shouldn’t be held out for phantom PED accusations..

He put up a 7.5 oWAR[b] in ’98 playing in 128 games. Imagine what he could have done if he played the whole year…

I think he should be on the ballot next year, too. That is, if he isn’t first round, like he should be.

And I love Bernie Williams, too. And his guitar. As much as it pains a RS fan to admit it.

Have the balls to write your own post & opinions you fuck stick.