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Yankees turned down meeting with free agent C.J. Wilson

Dec 1, 2011, 3:51 PM EDT

cj wilson blister

There have been plenty of reports about the Yankees’ lack of interest in C.J. Wilson and now Andrew Marchand of ESPN New York writes that they don’t even want to meet with him.

Marchand reports that Wilson’s agent requested a meeting to discuss the free agent left-hander and “the Yankees said no.”

That doesn’t preclude them from signing Wilson, of course, but unless general manager Brian Cashman has nearly every media member in New York tricked about the Yankees’ intentions the odds are very, very slim.

  1. cur68 - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:02 PM

    And finally, the Marlins have a shot at signing a decent (relatively speaking) pitcher.

  2. bozosforall - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:09 PM

    He’s not worth what the Marlins will eventually pay for him.

    • chuckj1234 - Dec 1, 2011 at 7:41 PM

      he is a a #3 or 4 at the best.

  3. phukyouk - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:15 PM

    Best news i heard all day

  4. uyf1950 - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:17 PM

    From the picture of CJ Wilson in the piece it looks like he lost his best friend.

    At this point I think the Angels are the favorite to sign him. Just a guess on my part.

    • WhenMattStairsIsKing - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:44 PM

      He did; he lost his best friend ‘Leverage’ today.

  5. deathmonkey41 - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:23 PM

    He’s a good pitcher and a lefty, but definately not worth what he’s asking. Fortunately for him- this might be the worst free agent pitcher class in a while, so value is all relative.

    • djpostl - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM

      Yup, only takes one sucker in this “market”. Just look at Barry Zito…

    • rsnorth - Dec 2, 2011 at 9:37 AM

      There’s an ‘a’ in death monkey but not in definitely. Your comment is right on, I’d say.

  6. djpostl - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM

    As a Yankees fan sure as shit don’t want them paying any amount of cash for this guy, he’s beyond over-rated, BUT I wouldn’t mind them getting involved, just to drive his price up and force some dumb ass GM to pay him Barry Zito money that’ll hamstring them down the road.

    • phukyouk - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:35 PM

      “dumb ass GM to pay him Barry Zito money that’ll hamstring them down the road.”
      (read the Red Sox new GM)

      • Ralphie - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:52 PM

        Yankees fans tossing rocks at glass houses. Too funny. NY invented the art of overpaying. Boston invented the art of feigning interest and having NY overpay.

      • bozosforall - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:59 PM

        Go get ’em, Cherryboi

      • uyf1950 - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:59 PM

        Ralphie – They really fooled all those other teams into believing they had no interest in signing Crawford, Dice K, Lackey and JD Drew.

      • bozosforall - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:01 PM

        Ralphie – Dec 1, 2011 at 4:52 PM
        Yankees fans tossing rocks at glass houses. Too funny. NY invented the art of overpaying. Boston invented the art of feigning interest and having NY overpay.

        Actually Tom Yawkey invented the art of overpaying with no return (decades of ownership with zero titles to show for it). At least Steinbrenner got a return on his money (7 titles).

        Meanwhile, the Boston fans invented the art of whining hypocrisy. Stems from decades of being an also-ran to the great New York franchise.

      • bozosforall - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:02 PM

        uyf1950 – Dec 1, 2011 at 4:59 PM
        Ralphie – They really fooled all those other teams into believing they had no interest in signing Crawford, Dice K, Lackey and JD Drew.

        He SHOOTS…he SCORES!!!!


      • Ralphie - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:20 PM

        Jason Giambi
        Jaret Wright
        Carl Pavano
        Kyle Farnsworth
        Kei Igawa
        AJ Burnett
        Roger Clemens (2007)
        Chan Ho Park
        F’in A Rod

        The laughable list goes on and on…LOL. That’s just recently…

      • uyf1950 - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:41 PM

        Ralphie, we can go back and forth naming player(s) all day long. For example I could have easily included in my previous list: Manny being Manny and Bobby Jenks or Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria and Mike Cameron. But what purpose would that serve.

        What I will say is even when the Yankees over pay for a player it never stops them from pursuing a different player. When and if that player fails to perform. Can you say the same about the Red Sox.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:58 PM

        The difference is that the Yankees’ mistakes cost a lot more. Then again, that’s because they can afford to waste more money. And I’m not sure it’s really wasted (for the Sox or Yankees) when it means you’ve got a great shot at the playoffs.

      • uyf1950 - Dec 1, 2011 at 6:09 PM

        Ari, I don’t know that I would say a lot more. More yes, but a lot is relative. The Sox have some pretty decent size doozies in just that list that I mentioned.

        Suffice to say both teams have thrown away money on some players in hindsight. But what team hasn’t. Look at the poor Twins and what their getting out of Mauer and Morneau for what they are being paid.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 1, 2011 at 10:50 PM

        The deals you mentioned were Crawford’s $142MM, Dice-K’s $103MM, Lackey’s $83MM, Drew’s $70MM, Renteria’s $40MM, Lugo’s $36MM, Cameron’s $15.5MM, and Jenks’ $8MM.

        Compare that to A-Rod’s $275MM, Teixeira’s $180MM, Giambi’s $120MM, Burnett’s $83MM, Posada’s $52MM, Jeter’s $51MM, Igawa’s $46MM, Pavano’s $40MM, and Soriano’s $35MM.

        That’s very nearly as much on the first 2 Yankee contracts as the 8 on your Boston list.

        As I said, the Yankees can afford to waste money, so I’m not even saying they made bad decisions on those contracts. (Well, maybe some of them are unquestioned failures.) But it’s tough to argue that the Yankees haven’t, indeed, overspent by a lot more.

      • uyf1950 - Dec 1, 2011 at 11:35 PM

        Ari, did you miss Manny being Manny on the Sox side on purpose to the tune of $160MM. And if you going to include people like Jeter on the Yankees side you may want to include Youkilis $41.1MM on the Sox side.

        By my calculations adding in Manny and Youkilis to the numbers you’ve stated the Sox total is just about $700MM and the Yankees $882MM. But does that really tell the entire story? Since you’ve chosen to include Tex in the Yankees number why didn’t you include Gonzalez in the Sox number? Because the way I see it each players 1st year with their respective new teams was pretty comparable. Adding in Gonzalez’s $154MM brings the Sox total to $854MM. Not significantly different from the Yankees $882MM. As I said before no doubt the Yankees have spent more, but a lot more is relative and depends on one’s interpretation and what you choose to include in the numbers.

        I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a lot and what should be in each others numbers to justify our positions.

        Like I’ve said on more then one occasion numbers can tell you anything you want them to.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 2, 2011 at 8:34 AM

        I didn’t include Manny because that was under previous Sox ownership and management. And, arguably, he was worth the money (though you could argue his defense negated much of that offensive value). I thought we were talking about contracts that were clear overpays, which is why I didn’t include Adrian (who signed a below-market contract and has been MVP-quality so far) or Youkilis (who’s easily been worth his modest contract as well).

        All of the Yankee contracts I listed have been clear overpays. The only exceptions on either side where it might be too early to judge are the Crawford and Jenks deals and the Jeter and Soriano deals, but they’re definitely overpays so far. (And if you’re going to argue that it’s too early, that’s another strong argument for the Sox overpaying by a lot less, since Crawford’s deal is by far the biggest overpay the Sox have right now).

        As to why Tex and not A-Gon, well, yeah, the Tex deal didn’t seem like an overpay after its first year, and maybe the A-Gon deal looks like an overpay two years from now as well. But it’s not 2009, and the fact is that A-Gon doesn’t look like an overpay right now, while the Tex deal clearly does. If that changes, we could include the (smaller) A-Gon deal.

        If we’re talking about overall spending, instead of overspending (which is what you seem to be talking about now), then yeah, we could include the ones you listed. But then we’d also have to include Mussina’s big deal, A-Rod’s first huge deal, Jeter’s previous huge deal, etc. And if you’re talking about just spending, then since 2003, the Sox have spent $1.189B while the Yankees have spent $1.744B, nearly 50% more. That’s definitely “a lot more” as well.

        The Yankees can afford to waste money, so I’m not even saying they made bad decisions on those contracts. Most of them provided value, if not as much as they paid for, and that’s all the Yankees need. But it’s tough to argue that New York hasn’t, indeed, overspent by a lot more.

      • uyf1950 - Dec 2, 2011 at 9:37 AM

        Ari, like I said you can always justify who is included and who isn’t and make the numbers tell you what you want them to.
        Overpaying is relative. Those players that you believe the Yankees have overpaid for from 2003 have contributed to the Yankees appearance in 8 of 9 post seasons. Helped lead them to 6 division titles in 9 years, 2 second place finishes and a third place finish. Those players also helped the Yankees finish 1st in the Major Leagues in attendance in 7 of those 9 years and 2nd the other 2 years.
        What I’m saying is it’s easy to assign a payroll number to a specific player and say that player is/was overpaid. But the reality is that the TEAMS performance over a given period of time is really the only way anyone can judge if the TEAM overpaid for players. And after all isn’t that what this discussion was about….and with that I will conclude my participation in this topic.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 2, 2011 at 10:12 AM

        Yeah, no, that’s exactly what I’ve been saying. They’ve overpaid more than anyone else from an objective standpoint, but they can afford it, and the results speak for themselves.

      • soxski - Dec 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM

        Yankee Oh Yankee fans. I love how you critics. Overpay. Your front office over pays for everyone. Phukyouk writes a dumb ass GM to give Zito money to Wilson (RedSox GM). Cherington will not sign Wilson or Burhle, he will trade for a starter. But since you critized. What do you call AJ Burnett signing, Pavano Signing, The Last Posada and Jeter contract, Garcia, CC and the dumbest contract of all contracts Alex “Purple lipstick Wearing” Rodriquez. Carl gave you 30 starts over five years. You wish Burnett only pitched 30 games, Posada deserved to be resigned but not the length and money same for Jeter. And Holy Christmas Mother of God paying Alex 30 million year to miss 60 games and eventually become the highest paid DH by almost triple that the game has ever seen. Good luck when you have 3 or 4 guys who should be at DH playing the Feild because the are making 18-30 million per year. I also wish we could give CC one more mint so he would pop and Really Really nice job with the Ian Kennedy trade. Wodetful job Cashman. Wait wait. Can we pay anymore middle relivers closets money can we can we. Because the Yankees have unlimited funds does mean it’s right. I use to respect the team when they had home grown players, role player and 3-4 stars like 96-99. Now no respect before you go on a toot. Adrian 4 top prospects. Beckett traded Hanley and Sanchez Home grown Dustin, Jed, Youk, Lester, Buck Bard Miller Larvawary Reddick Kalish. FA signings Crawford, Lackey Drew, no longer on team, and Bull Pen. Everyone else was from the Farm or traded for and used our prospects. When teams give p prospects it s not the same as throwing huge contracts. Home Grown or NY. Jeter OTH, Mariano, And Nova Hughes. FA Tex Curtis, Nick, Russel, Alex, Cc Rafelel.

  7. deathmonkey41 - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:38 PM

    I can’t imagine the Yankees are comfortable going into next season with the same staff they had last year, so there has to be some irons in the fire on the trade market. But I agree, the Yanks should feign interest if for nothing else than to fool other clubs into taking less on trades. They usually don’t get involved with trying to drive up free agent prices unless the Red Sox or Mets are also interested.

  8. pisano - Dec 1, 2011 at 4:51 PM

    Thank God they passed on CJ, at best he’s a #2 or #3. I have a feeling they have someone else in mind and we’ll find out before too long who it is, but you can bet it’s not CJ Wilson.

    • bozosforall - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:05 PM

      If the Yankees do go out and find someone in FA, it only needs to be a #3 or worse (as long as Nova continues to throw like a solid #2 starter, that is). Wilson would have never taken #3 money and Cashman rightly recognized that pursuing him was a complete waste of time.

    • uyf1950 - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:16 PM

      pisano my friend. Do not be surprised if Cashman works a trade either before the season starts or by the trade deadline that involves moving Swisher.

      bozosforall, I have to disagree with you about Nova as a solid #2. In my opinion realistically Nova is a #3. The Yankees could really use a solid #2 in the rotation.

      Would love to see them work a trade for one early on but something tells me it won’t happen until the trade deadline with a team that is facing losing to FA a player for the following season. I still see them signing a FA and don’t ask me why but I just have a feeling it’s going to be Oswalt on a 2 year deal.

    • protius - Dec 2, 2011 at 6:48 AM

      It’s C.J. Wilson

  9. grudenthediva - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:33 PM

    “The laughable list goes on and on…LOL. That’s just recently…”

    Mike Cameron
    Edgar Renteria
    John Lackey
    Julio Lugo
    J.D. Drew
    Matt Clement
    Brad Penny
    Jose Offerman

    …glass houses, your mom, etc.

    • Ralphie - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:44 PM

      Steve Karsay
      Randy Johnson
      Kenny Lofton
      Kevin Brown
      Javier Vazquez
      Jose Contreras
      Jeff Weaver

      …glass houses, I bet your parents are proud (and related), etc

      The hits keep on comin”!

      • Kevin S. - Dec 1, 2011 at 6:48 PM

        Kenny Lofton? Really? The guy that signed a one-year deal low-cost deal and wasn’t atrocious? That’s what you’re going with?

  10. WhenMattStairsIsKing - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:40 PM

    “Nine figures? For you? Even we have our limits, man.” ~ Brian Cashman

  11. Ari Collins - Dec 1, 2011 at 5:54 PM

    I don’t know if I want my team to get Wilson, but I know I don’t want the Yankees to get him. Someone’s going to overpay him, but by less than people think (because he’s better than people think), and for the Yankees, overpaying isn’t a problem.

    • baseballisboring - Dec 1, 2011 at 8:29 PM

      Exactly. I don’t know where this perception that he’s a mediocre pitcher comes from, since he has a 3.40 FIP the last two years, and for those who aren’t into that sort of thing his ERA is even lower. He’s a good #2 or a great #3, and like you said, he’s going to get overpaid by someone and it would damage the Yanks’ operation less than anyone else’s, I don’t want to see him go there either.

      • Kevin S. - Dec 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

        The only question is whether or not having a ton of money tied up in CJ Wilson prevents the Yankees from going after one of the aces hitting the market next winter. I guess it’s possible they take the one-year hit until AJ’s contract comes off the books, but I’m still wary of what having an extra $15+ million does to their outlook next offseason. It’s probably the biggest reason I’d rather them go after Garza, even knowing Theo isn’t exactly going to give him away.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 1, 2011 at 10:16 PM

        And really, a 3.40 FIP/3.20 ERA is an ace. Especially pitching in the AL, in Texas.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 1, 2011 at 10:28 PM

        @Kevin: I’m not sure that the Yankees could tie up too much money. Have they ever missed out on someone because they had too much money tied up in someone else? I’m sure it could happen, but paying Wilson $16-18MM probably won’t do it.

        I’m also not sure I wouldn’t rather have Wilson at $80MM than Hamels/Cain/Greinke at $140MM.

      • Kevin S. - Dec 1, 2011 at 10:40 PM

        I’d be able to respond better if Cot’s wasn’t going all wonky on me, but Dave Cameron assertions to the contrary, the Yankees do seem to be hovering around a glass ceiling in terms of payroll, and I’d just rather not assume that they don’t actually have opportunity costs. In response to your question, I don’t believe that Cain or Greinke would command that type of money, and I’d rather pay Hamels $20 million/year for his age 29-35 seasons than Wilson $16 million/year for his age 31-35 seasons. Hamels is better right now, and the Yanks would be getting more of his peak along with the decline.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 1, 2011 at 11:04 PM

        I’m pretty convinced that Hamels/Cain/Greinke will get Lee money (though perhaps if all three hit FA at the same time, they may find there aren’t enough suitors to get them each that money). But it’s certainly debatable whether they might in fact be worth nearly twice as much guaranteed money as Lee!

        They do seem to be hovering around $200MM, but I don’t think that’s because they can only afford that much. I think it’s just been difficult (so far) to actually spend more than $200MM on a 25-man roster, especially since the Yankees have produced some excellent players from their farm system.

      • Kevin S. - Dec 1, 2011 at 11:49 PM

        By twice as much money as Lee you mean Wilson, I assume?

        I don’t think you can just look at total contract value here. It’s a couple million more per year, and while the extra two years you’re projecting those guys get make the total contract values much bigger, those marginal years are in their late twenties, which should be more productive. Wilson’s deal will be entirely for his 30s. And I still think you’re being overly optimistic on what those guys get. The only pitchers to sign for more money than Lee were Sabathia and Santana, and of those three only Hamels is really in the territory they were when they signed those deals. Yeah, there’s salary inflation, but I don’t think it’s that much.

      • Ari Collins - Dec 2, 2011 at 8:38 AM

        Valid points, Kevin (even if I don’t entirely agree with them). It’ll be fun to see what those three get! (Although I suspect Cain will be extended by the Giants before he hits FA.)

      • Ari Collins - Dec 2, 2011 at 8:46 AM

        Oh, and yeah, I meant Wilson. Thanks for interpreting my “creative” language use correctly.

  12. randygnyc - Dec 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

    I’m sure CJ is stunned the Yankees won’t even meet with him. I’m sure his agent told him he’d be getting the red carpet treatment, private jet and wined and dined while fielding a 100 million + offer. I’d let him wear the pinstripes, but at 6 million for 4 years. He’s a # 5, maybe #4 starter. He’s got some talent but the heart of Pavano, Weaver and Burnett.

    • baseballisboring - Dec 1, 2011 at 8:22 PM

      I have no idea what could make you think he’s a #5. He’s not an ace, but there’s a lot between ace and #5. I’d call him a #2.25

  13. mojosmagic - Dec 1, 2011 at 10:51 PM

    What is baseball coming to ? The only team that spends crazy money is the Phillies? Yanks have a budget?

    • Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 2, 2011 at 9:02 AM

      I don’t think it’s budgetary constraints. I think it’s Cashman not wanting to play the role of stalking horse, for some reason (lying in wait for a price that he wants, perhaps?)…

      Cashman has already intimated that there is no hard budget. If he wants more money to spend, he can make a case to ownership and if they approve, *poof* piles of cash land at his feet. No really, there are piles of cash in burlap sacks in the ceiling tiles that fall when Cashman’s requests are approved.

  14. jason9696 - Dec 1, 2011 at 11:54 PM

    I wouldn’t want to meet him either if I was the Yankees. He was terrible in the playoffs.

  15. klingonj - Dec 2, 2011 at 7:01 AM

    just the opening salvo in the negotiations. dont be surprised to see the Yankees suddenly sign him to more “realistic money”. What the Yankees should be doing is chasing after Justin Birkle.

  16. Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 2, 2011 at 8:57 AM

    Redsox and Yankee fans arguing about which overpriced signings were worse smacks of Randolph and Mortimer arguing about, well, anything.

    C’mon guys, you’re bitching about spending too much. #onepercentproblems

    None of those “mistakes” kept either team from winning, whereas mistakes made by smaller market teams very well could have impacted their ability to win.

    Now, let me bitch about the crack in my Corinthian leather in my Bentley convertible.

  17. judahbenhur - Dec 2, 2011 at 3:06 PM

    Great news for the Angels. He’s from the area and does not want to play for the Marlins unless they are going to severely over pay him. He signs with the halos 5 years 75 million

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