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Marlins were “measuring what might be out there” in a trade for Hanley Ramirez

Dec 12, 2011, 10:15 AM EDT

Hanley Ramirez Reuters

Last week after the Marlins signed Jose Reyes there were conflicting reports from big-name reporters about the likelihood of Hanley Ramirez being traded.

Now that the dust has settled a bit Joe Frisaro of MLB.com–who had the correct information on Miami’s offer to Albert Pujols when others were passing around an inflated total–reports that the Marlins “didn’t initiate conversation” with teams for Ramirez but “were measuring what might be out there should they decide to shop” him.

Frisaro adds that “the Marlins have no intentions of trading Ramirez” and “they are hoping he makes a smooth transition to third base.”

They can hope that all day, of course, but if Ramirez is unhappy about the notion of being a full-time third baseman while Reyes plays shortstop it seems pretty clear that the Marlins will step up their efforts to deal him. It all hinges on Ramirez’s acceptance of a new position and right now no one, including Ramirez, seems to know exactly what his stance on that will be by the time everyone arrives at spring training.

  1. JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 10:21 AM

    Man, if they really do trade Hanley over this, their offseason is an unmitigated disaster. Nothing opens a new stadium like a team that struggles to play .500 ball after a massive free agent spending spree.

    • purnellmeagrejr - Dec 12, 2011 at 12:20 PM

      Getting Jose REyes and MArk Buehrle certianly mitigate any disaster anything they do with Hanley might represent. Maybe you were tryng to say it would “undermine” the other things they;ve done.

      • HitsDingers - Dec 12, 2011 at 1:18 PM

        way to bitchslap that hyperbole

      • JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 3:58 PM

        Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle are not going to account for 20 more wins for the Marlins next year, which is basically the minimum amount they they need to improve by. Those two are maybe worth ten wins if Reyes is healthy. The whole point of this spending spree is to be competitive next year in the new stadium. They’re not there, and it’s going to be hard for them to get there even with Hanley. Without him I don’t think they have any chance to get there.

      • protius - Dec 13, 2011 at 5:08 PM

        Well played Mauer

  2. sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Dec 12, 2011 at 10:23 AM

    I don’t think Buehrle’s 4.00 ERA and 80+ games of Reyes will make a difference if they lose Hanley.

    • JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 10:52 AM

      The best you can reasonably expect would be something like this, I think:

      ’11 Marlins: 72 wins

      Reyes +6 wins

      Buehrle +4 wins

      Bell + 3 wins

      That’s really pretty optimistic. And it gets them all the way to 85 wins. Maybe Josh Johnson comes back full strength and gets them to 90. So basically you’re looking at a scenario where every player has to hit their most optimistic projection just to get to get to the minimum buy-in for a playoff berth. And that’s not going to happen, right? Someone is getting hurt. Someone is going to underperform. That’s just baseball. If they lose Hanley, it’s going to be a bad, bad scene in Miami. Well, assuming anyone is there to even observe it…

      The Marlins really needed to go after Pujols first, then target the second-tier guys. Their offseason strategy makes no sense without him.

      • cintiphil - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:28 AM

        I agree with your contentions mostly. That is why he Ramirez needs a change of venue. He is mostly out of your example. He makes no difference in Fla.

      • JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:36 AM

        But if Hanley is in my example then the Marlins have an actual chance. That’s my point.

      • Francisco (FC) - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:52 AM

        I’m going out on a limb and say that it’s terribly dangerous to misuse WAR or some approximation of it in this fashion. Some fella in NY had a similar notion and concluded the 2011 would not even make the playoffs as a wildcard team… right.

      • Francisco (FC) - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:54 AM

        2011 Phillies…

        EDIT FUNCTION!!!

      • Old Gator - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:59 AM

        The Feesh aren’t done dealing yet so a lot of this is moot until the team breaks camp and we see what its final configuration looks like. I look for them to score one more impact bat – and I hope that bat comes in the form of a replacement for Tweeter, his irrational fear of mantises and his all but genetic indisposition to hit in the clutch.

        Also, you need to subtract Chris Volstad’s 2010 losses since he likely won’t be around, then factor in the three or four games that will be lost when the Hanster boots or throws away balls hit to third, or prangs a hamstring trying to field bunts for the first time in his life. I still shudder at the prospect of him playing third.

      • JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 12:42 PM

        “I’m going out on a limb and say that it’s terribly dangerous to misuse WAR or some approximation of it in this fashion. Some fella in NY had a similar notion and concluded the 2011 would not even make the playoffs as a wildcard team… right.”

        The 2011 who?

    • Old Gator - Dec 12, 2011 at 12:30 PM

      Aside from his aberrational 2010 campaign (from which he recovered nicely last season – 3.59), Buehrle’s lifetime ERA – entirely compiled in the designatedhitterball league – is 3.89. Throw out his three worst, widely-spaced years and that goes down to about 3.50 or so. Again, all pitching designatedhitterball. Well, he’s playing baseball this year and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect his ERA to go down by 10% or so.

      Plus, he eats innings like a T-rex who just stumbled over a fresh hadrosaur carcass and he’ll be pitching for the team that, I believe, had the lowest number of innings pitched by its starting rotation in the NL – maybe in the contiguous universe. What that does for the wear and tear on the boolpen can’t be underestimated.

      Buehrle’s impact on the Feesh’s record should be far more substantial than you think.

      • evanwins - Dec 12, 2011 at 3:15 PM

        Buerhle isn’t an ace – he is a 2 or 3 on most teams (he would be 4 on the Phillies). He is not going to make much of a difference at all this year and even less the remaining years of the contract. The marlins bought a name. He was a good pitcher on a weak team in probably the weakest division in baseball moving to a decent team in the second toughest division in baseball.

        We’ll see how it works out but my guess is “virtually no impact”.

      • JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 3:54 PM

        He’s also moving from an AL hitters park to an NL park that looks to be pitcher friendly. I’d say strength of division is less important than either of those factors.

  3. cur68 - Dec 12, 2011 at 10:38 AM

    Well, so far no demands for a trade or a contract renegotiation, so there’s that. I wouldn’t be surprised to here that reports of Ramirez’s reaction to moving to 3rd were way overblown. It seemed like every report out of the winter meetings came with a laundry list of rumor and inflation attached to it. Except for the journalist who fell in the pool. That’s been a closely guarded secret.

    • Alex K - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:41 AM

      I’m with you, cur. I wonder how much of this is just how people expect Hanley to react.

      The only thing we’ve heard straight from him is that he is working to get ready for the season because that is what he can control.

  4. El Bravo - Dec 12, 2011 at 10:39 AM

    How does Ozzie not just get Jose and Hanley on the phone and the three of them simply ramble this out?

    • Old Gator - Dec 12, 2011 at 12:00 PM

      Hanley is already bitter. You want him to be confused as well?

  5. Chris Fiorentino - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:00 AM

    If I were Ramirez, I wouldn’t want to move to third either. He will be 31 when his contract is up and if he regains his 07-09 form playing third he will make less money than if he regains his 07-09 form playing shortstop. If Jimmy Rollins were a third baseman, would he even be in the running for a 3 year contract at 36 million? I highly doubt it. Hanley should stick to his guns, and ask to either be traded or keep his shortstop position.

    • WhenMattStairsIsKing - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:28 AM

      If you’re a player of a team, you do what’s best for the team. If it’s best for Miami to make him a 3B, he should act like a professional and accepts it. He’s free to play wherever and however he wants when his deal is up.

      • sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:54 AM

        Do these rules still apply when the team consistently does NOT do what is best for the team? The Marlins are rather notorious for worrying about the Marlins first, and if players get screwed in the deal, so be it. I would not be entirely damning of Hanley if he maintained his position of looking out for himself first. Seems like the same reason Pujols insisted on a full no-trade. Say the Marlins DO win it all in 2011. Would they follow their own precedent and have a fire sale immediately after? There is certainly a more than zero chance…

      • Chris Fiorentino - Dec 12, 2011 at 1:33 PM

        Who says that the best thing for the team is for him to move to third? The same team who hasn’t won squat since 2003? Why are they right and he is wrong? Let Reyes move…least that’s what I would say.

  6. cintiphil - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:23 AM

    If I were Hanley, I would want to be traded. Why make a move to third? If I were Walt Jocketty, I would like to trade for him The Reds can use an every day short stop. And his hitting will improve in Great Am. Ball Park in Cinti.

    • JBerardi - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:36 AM

      Why make a move to third? Probably because you’re not a very good shortstop.

    • Alex K - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:44 AM

      But who would the Reds give up for him? I don’t think they have enough of anything the Marlins would want.

      • cintiphil - Dec 12, 2011 at 1:18 PM

        Marlins need additional hitting. And Alonzo is from Fla. And he is Hispanic. Isn’t that what the Marlins were looking for? A local Hispanic guy who can draw a lot, right? And they can get him cheap, without a long term contract with no trade clause. A win win for all.

      • Alex K - Dec 12, 2011 at 1:37 PM

        But the Marlins already have 2 people that can really only play 1B…why add another if it isn’t the best player in MLB? Alonzo has no place to play in FL. Plus, he’s not anywhere close to enough as a return for Hanley.

        That trade proposal is actually a huge win for the Reds and a huge loss for the Marlins. And the hispanic part of it is a wash, seeing how Hanley is Dominican.

  7. unclemosesgreen - Dec 12, 2011 at 11:50 AM

    Macondo’s foremost Cormac McCarthy scholar has already established that the Marlins have to wait until Hanley’s shoulder heals up to trade him. They are just beginning the process of working the phones and asking other GM’s – so what if he was totally healthy – what could you offer us then?

  8. sdelmonte - Dec 12, 2011 at 12:02 PM

    I keep thinking, boy it would be great if the Mets could steal him away.

    Ain’t gonna happen. But it would be funny. (It would be funny if the Phils took him instead of Rollins, at least until the first time Hanley beats the Mets.)

  9. andyreidisfat - Dec 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM

    The phillies need to be offering brown, galvis and atleast one of the baby aces for this guy.

    Utley could move to the lead off spot where he would be most effective with his skill set at this time and hr would slide right into the 3 hole.

    This would be a good trade for both teams , I would even put polanco in the deal so the marlins have their 3rd basemen.

    The phillies must get this guy or David wright and Rollins .

  10. fatass5 - Dec 12, 2011 at 2:04 PM

    trade halmels and then we dont need rollins

  11. foreverchipper10 - Dec 13, 2011 at 12:07 PM

    I would love the Braves to trade for him. Some package of Jurrjens, Prado and maybe a AA player. If someone mentioned something like this above my apologies as I, for some reason, see there are 32 comments but I can’t see a single one.

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