Comments on: It’s “I have no evidence of his PED use, but I’m not voting for Jeff Bagwell” season

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 08:50:12 +0000

er, not quite. ‘Roids developed in ~1930. Largely forgotten or ignored for about 20 years in North America, then first clinical trials were pretty unpromising: no detectable difference in muscle gain could be found (maybe early to mid ’70′s?). Not till about the late 80′s and early 90′s did their use really take off in North America when other work was being carried out and found significant results. So its beyond a stretch to imagine Aaron, in the early 70′s, using. He’d have needed to have a supply (from where? Soviet Russia?), know how to use them (when most people had no idea), and the dose (ditto).

By: simon94022

simon94022 — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 01:10:40 +0000

A Hall of Fame without Bagwell — and Bonds and Clemens — is a joke. If the writers are going to stay on this dead end road, then Hall of Fame debates aren’t worth wasting time on.

By: CJ

CJ — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:30:38 +0000

fair enough. I appreciate your gracious response.

By: bozosforall

bozosforall — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:38:20 +0000

Hank could have. Steroids first came into being right about the time that his HR totals took a huge jump upwards.

By: bozosforall

bozosforall — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:37:01 +0000

You referring the former Red Sox first baseman? Of course, he used steroids.

By: koufaxmitzvah

koufaxmitzvah — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:21:05 +0000

I appreciate your response, CJ. To reiterate, I don’t consider what you wrote to be borderline anti-Semitic in and of itself. I will say there is a slippery slope when discussing race and religion within a subject matter that is about neither.

All in all, no harm done. I just felt (especially in light of some comments I’ve read here recently regarding Braun and his identity) that the notion should be nipped in the bud.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:52:13 +0000

Put a little asterisk next to each guys name stating they played in the Steroid Era. Issue resolved.

Sure just as long as you put one in for those that played pre-segregation, those who played during WWII/Korea but didn’t serve, those that played during the amphetamine era, and then the Cocaine era…

By: CJ

CJ — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:51:44 +0000

Please, relax. That was not made as a insult of anyone’s race or faith by any means. If it was taken that way, I sincerely apologize.

I only said it becuase race was brought up as an issue in how the Bonds and Braun cases have been perceived by the public, which I feel (and expressed yesterday in a different thread), is a ridiculous notion that is played by some that won’t let go of some horrible things that have happened in the past. At the same time, I fully acknowledge that I’d have a tough time doing that in the same situation.

My comment wasn’t intended to be offensive in any way, I’m merely pointing out that race, faith, and any number of factors could be brought up in any and all of these situations, and really should have no bearing in these cases whatsoever. If any other them apply even in the slightest then those who still hold such perceptions need to grow up and get over themselves so we can all move on as a nation. In my view it’s just shameful and deplorable that we can’t move on as a nation from some of these things. In hindsight, I see that my poor attempt at a Seinfeld reference didn’t exactly help facilitate this point, and for that matter might’ve caused it more harm than good, and for that I truly do apologize.

By: phukyouk

phukyouk — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:31:10 +0000

Monorail is the 3rd best… it goes
1. Homer at bat
2. you only move twice
3. Marge vs. the Monorail
FACT!

By: tuftsb

tuftsb — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:29:00 +0000

Check out how many players were on a pace to hit 50 HR’s in 1994:

Matt Williams (43)
Ken Griffey (40)
Jeff Bagwell (39)
Frank Thomas (38)
Barry Bonds (37)
Albert Belle (36)
Fred McGriff (34)

By: cur68

cur68 — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:18:30 +0000

Missing the point jeff: worked out, sure. Worked out without injury was the point. That’s what the ‘roids are believed to do for you, see? Like Roger Clemens still pitching great in his 40′s? Unlike Baggy, broken down with weight lifter’s shoulder?

By: tuftsb

tuftsb — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:18:01 +0000

Jeff Jacobs logic – “I’ll know it when I see it. But I didn’t see it, but think it happened. So I think I saw it”.

By: tuftsb

tuftsb — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:14:03 +0000

I have been told by some of the more honest writers (oxymoron – see military intelligence and jumbo shrimp) that they see the BBWAA HOF vote disappearing within a decade. The only way it will stay is if the old members wither away and new ones with SABR smarts take over soon.

By: titknocker

titknocker — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:06:37 +0000

Bud Selig will 1 day likely be enshrined because he generally has been a great commissioner (All Star game in Milwaukee aside) and he let the steroid use go on. As the players got bigger, and the balls went further. The owners bank accounts got fatter. It really bothers me that all the onus is on the players. When in reality everyone played a part in it.

By: drunkenhooliganism

drunkenhooliganism — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:04:21 +0000

Seriously Pancho? It could be proven that Braun’s test was faulty and he was completely PED free and he could commit to hair and blood samples for the remainder of his career and there’s still no way he ever sniffs the HOF.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:57:10 +0000

Trying to look at the bright side, the writer notes his career OPS. This isn’t a neanderthal but someone who might change with the times, at least slowly. Bagwell wil be on the ballot a long time and he’ll look clean in comparison to some of the other guys who more clearly took steroids. Eventually, this guy may come around to vote Bagwell in.

By: nolanwiffle

nolanwiffle — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:53:27 +0000

I’m with Fatass! (sadly, that isn’t the first time I’ve said that)

By: koufaxmitzvah

koufaxmitzvah — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:47:19 +0000

No, I’m not mad. I just don’t see what’s the purpose of bringing up anti-Semitism with Ryan Braun’s drug test situation. As far as I know, the only people bringing up anti-Semitism are the people bringing up Ryan Braun’s Judaism. The question I have is, Why is that? Projection? Some fratboy, back handed insult?

This is about Jeff Bagwell. And even if this is about Ryan Braun, it is not about his religion.

Let’s stop being a bunch of sophomoric amatuers. This blog is supposed to be bigger and better than that.

By: jeffrp

jeffrp — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:45:47 +0000

There are well documented stories of how hard Clemens worked out.

By: drewsylvania

drewsylvania — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:42:53 +0000

Love the notion, BTW.

By: drewsylvania

drewsylvania — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:42:16 +0000

Because those that run the league would be punishing themselves. We can’t have that!

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:37:27 +0000

My question is….where is all the talk about the fact that MLB introduced a new ball toward the end of the 1993 season, which had a springer core and a synthetic wind. Synthetics absorb less water from the air, making the ball lighter.

1994 was the first “full” season of this ball being used, and it is the point where HRs per game jumped dramatically. Either the ball had a huge effect on production or every player in MLB decided to roid up during the ’93-’94 off-season.

By: 78mu

78mu — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:37:11 +0000

Monorail – The Really Best Episode

By: sportsdrenched.com

sportsdrenched.com — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:30:33 +0000

Nope, just Lamb’s blood

By: stex52

stex52 — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:22:50 +0000

Bad science anyway. Is there a statistical correlation that says what PED’s should do? I don’t think so. Post is nonsense.

By: rynev

rynev — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:22:36 +0000

I’m apparently late to the comments party here, but this article by The Common Man from last year that he has recently relinked on Twitter is the perfect response to these types of articles.

http://www.platoonadvantage.com/2010/12/dan-graziano-no-for-this-writer.html

By: dlindstedt2

dlindstedt2 — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:21:11 +0000

Koufax, you mad bro?

By: koufaxmitzvah

koufaxmitzvah — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:15:33 +0000

Braun is innocent until proven guilty. His case has not run its due course. Information was leaked and hence the controversy.

Bagwell is innocent until proven guilty. His Hall of Fame case is being dragged through the mud without any evidence. His body size and statistical accomplishments are, if anything, circumstantial.

So, to answer your question, everything is wrong with this picture.

By: stex52

stex52 — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:15:18 +0000

Why the thumbs downs? What cur says is the truth. I have it indirectly from the Astros trainers of the time that he would not stop weights even when told to. Chronic inflammation went to arthritis and that was it.

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:12:20 +0000

I was going to post a reply as well, but the fine posters above me have blown you out of the water, it’s just not worth it.