Comments on: Padres net a huge haul from Reds in return for Mat Latos

By: crisisjunky

crisisjunky — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 04:14:50 +0000

Latos will likely get more wins with more offense, but all players in this deal are assigned to player’s purgatory except Volquez who’s situation is probably to far gone to matter. Maybe pitching in The Pet Palace will help Volquez feel less discomfitted, but Boxberger is likely the big winner here, perhaps eventually in Adam’s or even Bell’s role by next year.

By: droopyyydog1

droopyyydog1 — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 21:36:03 +0000

I agree whole heartedly, Dusty is the worst manager you can have for a young team. I love Heissey and would like to see him get some at bats at the top of the order. As for Stubbs the Reds need to take the same approach the Sox did with Elsbury and bat him lower in the line up until he gets comfortable.

This is the make or break year for the Reds. With Puljols gone the division is winnable which is why I think Jocketty went all in with this trade.

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 07:37:31 +0000

Anybody here remember 2 weeks ago when this site was thinking the idea of Shield for Alonso straight up, or Shields and Farnesworth for Alonso and Grandal.

LMAO!!! I said WAY overpay, and yet Reds fans are still thinking they got a good deal.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/25/fake-trade-james-shields-to-cincinnati-for-yonder-alonso/

When Matthew Pouliott says huge haul, he means it.

Quoting Matthew:

“Why it won’t happen: One factor the Reds would have to be awfully nervous about: while Shields and Farnsworth combined for a 2.70 ERA in 307 innings last season, they came in at 4.74 in 268 innings during 2010. The Reds might want to hold out for Shields for Alonso straight up.”

By: drunkenhooliganism

drunkenhooliganism — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 04:17:40 +0000

Albert Pujols is the best player in baseball. But because of his contract he’s worthless in a trade (anybody could have signed him to that contract. They’re definitely not going to assume the contract while giving up a player now). The contract is a big factor in trade value.

By: metalhead65

metalhead65 — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 04:02:55 +0000

we will never know if the reds minor league talent will ever help them win in cincy since dusty is so dead set against playing them. granted cozart did not play that long before he got hurt but he showed enough before the injury he should be the answer at at short. did not stop dusty from not playing him the next game after his multi hit debut in favor of a washed up ex-card in renteria. that is why I keep bashing them for signing these “veterans”. dusty will play them over the younger talent every time. you want a better example I will give you Heisey in left. after watching gomes suck for a year and a half they finally get rid of him and go with the mighty fred lewis instead of seeing what Heisey can do. he called it platooning but it was lewis 4 out if every 5 games. who else does not play a guy who hits 3 homers in agame the next day?now comes the part where you give me you invented stats that says Heisey can’t hit when facing a lefty when it is over 70 degrees on a cloudy day. guess what? I actually watch the games and think the guy can play if given a oppertunity to play everyday something dusty seems determined not to. there was no excuse not to play him everday for a month after getting rid of gomes and the reds 10 games out. that way you find out if the guy can play or not. they certainly where not winning with lewis and gomes so what harm could have come from that? I was hoping he would be dealt to a team that would actually play him. plus why is it ok to play the strikeout machine that is stubbs everyday but not a guy who put up similar numbers in less at bats?

By: lostsok

lostsok — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 02:11:06 +0000

Great move by the Pads, which as a Dodger fan I hate. Bad news for Yonder, though. That’ll cost him 10-15 HRs a year, easy.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 01:55:13 +0000

Number of career starts in which Latos has thrown at least 110 pitches: 4

That number should double by the end of April.

By: rohlo

rohlo — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 00:37:02 +0000

when you are rebuilding trading him for quality 2 top 50 prospects is good! latos struggled badly in a pitcher park end of 2010 and half of 2011…

By: icanspeel

icanspeel — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 00:15:16 +0000

Latos should help the Reds since most of his losses were because the Padres couldn’t score. It’s basically a move saying the Reds are playing for today and the Padres are playing for the future (when aren’t they?)

By: vanmorrissey

vanmorrissey — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 00:01:40 +0000

Yep. What good are all the prospects if you don’t have room for them, you deal them to get stronger which is what the Reds have done. All trades have risk involved but that’s the way it goes.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 23:44:42 +0000

re: Latos and his maturity issues…he should fit right in with Cincy and the NL Central. That has to be the chippiest division in baseball

By: johnnyb1976

johnnyb1976 — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:49:56 +0000

I’m ok with the deal. Yonder was always ticketed for another team, Volquez has been anything but good the last couple of seasons, Grandal could be the best chip in this whole deal. On paper it looks like the Pads got the better end but if Latos wins 17-20 games with the reds and they win a division and possibly more I don’t think anyone in reds country will miss Yonder’s bat

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:42:35 +0000

He was just as good on the roads. Home/Away splits are helpful to glance at.

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:37:17 +0000

Ha ha. Drive the stake in Cincy a little more and finish them off right? Moments after FLEECING them of their only trade chips, including 2 top 50′s for a guy who will get real expensive real fast, the Pad’s make a deal to strengthen their competetion.

By: evanwins

evanwins — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:27:03 +0000

What good is salary/team control on a player who isn’t very good, or just okay? The Phils traded Carlos Carrasco type players for their big hauls. Carrasco would have been like Latos, under team control and not very expensive. He also wouldn’t be a perennial Cy Young contender and one of the best pitchers in baseball.

For the Phillies, the Lee and Halladay trades were their targets, and for the Phils they were EXTREMELY valuable.

For the Reds, they think this Latos deal will be valuable for them, it remains to be seen.

They’re 2 teams in different places who traded for different reasons. Not all that comparable.

Lastly, I tend to look at all pitchers who come out of “pitcher-friendly” home parks with a little caution. A fly ball that doesn’t even reach the track in Petco wil be 8 rows deep in Great American. So we’ll see… Also with Heath Bell.

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:20:42 +0000

I am with you paperlions. This does not affect Votto in the least bit. They weren’t going to keep Alonso in AAA until he was 28 just in case Votto went unsigned. This seems like a make or break run at the Series this year and next. They were a few pieces away from being the favorites for the Central, and this probably gets them there. However, I don’t know how they can afford to pay Votto 25million, Phillips, 15 million, and Latos 10 million in 2 years.

This is going for broke.

By: brucewaynewins

brucewaynewins — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:56:01 +0000

Stadium ERA W L SV SVO GP GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
GABP 2.57 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 4 2 2 0 1 5 .167

By: ame123

ame123 — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:51:53 +0000

Except the Phils got 1.5 years of lee for peanuts and got a below market extension for Halladay.

By: sfs1

sfs1 — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:51:18 +0000

Latos strikes enough guys out and gets enough ground balls while not giving away tons of walks, which mitigates the worry a bit. His home/road splits don’t show any marked difference between when he pitches at Petco vs. elsewhere.

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:49:53 +0000

That would be World Champion National League Central Division.

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:47:29 +0000

Latos will suffer pitching in the Great American Phonebooth, but he seems to have the make-up to hang around for a while. But the Reds still have holes. The Rolen/Francisco 3B duo could easily flop. Cozart must show he is the real deal. Stubbs ended up benched at the end of ’11, and left field is still up for grabs.

The Reds have starting pitching depth, and should be healthier than last year, but Arroyo, Bailey, Leake, Woods and Chapman all have issues, and that is worrysome. But they have their ace, and that should alleviate some pressure. Is Heisey the answer in left?

By: paperlions

paperlions — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:47:29 +0000

Is wanting to stay with the Reds the reason Votto has refused to even talk about a contract extension?

By: brucewaynewins

brucewaynewins — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:44:50 +0000

With Yonder gone the excuse of trading Votto and keeping Yonder is absolute. Everytime someone started a rumor about trading Votto, Jocketty would get pissed. There is a video of Jocketty on the Reds website from this month talking about how they intend to sign Votto long term, already tried, and will try again.

Reason I mentioned Phillips is everyone felt 1 would go and 1 would stay. I feel one of the reasons the Reds are spending much this offseason despite and increase in attendance is to keep both players. With Billy Hamilton in the minors at second base it makes Votto look like more and more of a keeper unless someone makes a deal the Reds can’t even come close to.

Votto himself said he wants to stay with the Reds and can’t see himself playing anywhere else.

@matthew here is an audio link with Jocketty talking about the trade http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/files/2011/12/121711_cin_jockety_cc.mp3

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:44:11 +0000

You could say you have Latos to show for Hamilton

By: nlucas550

nlucas550 — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:42:33 +0000

Cincinnati makes a creative trade; Cubs deny Fielder rumors, and the ugly stepchildren of the National League Central division.

http://dailygrindsports.wordpress.com/

By: salbutara

salbutara — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:40:35 +0000

The Reds made the correct move. This is why they have accumulated all these assets over the past 3 years. Time to go all in w/ a 2 year window (Votto) and a weakened NL Central Division. Regardless of how this pans out, this was the right call. Good job to Walt and the Reds!!!

By: paperlions

paperlions — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:40:12 +0000

This is so obviously true, not sure how anyone could disagree. The ownership has made it clear that their goal is to make as much money as possible. Winning doesn’t appear to be anywhere on the priority list. The Padre owners have pocketed more money than any other team, even the Yankees.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:36:07 +0000

I’s say the trade is big on potential for the Pods, but none of these guys are sure things. On this very blog, someone recently quipped that Jocketty had better trade Alonso before other teams figure out that he has no position. Volquez was so bad he was shipped to the minors for a big chunk of the season, then a catcher with half a season of AA, and a relief prospect. That to land a legit Ace with several years of team control. I suppose we can judge it more accurately in a couple of years, but pitching is both expensive and in short supply.

Now I wonder what Beane is thinking he should get for Gio

By: brewcitybummer

brewcitybummer — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:34:52 +0000

Latos going from the best pitcher’s park in baseball to at least one of the top 5 hitter’s parks in baseball. Reds fans have to be at least a little concerned about this don’t they? My opinion about park effects is that they go beyond what you can measure, with places like Petco allowing pitchers to take more risks and use more of the strike zone

By: micker716

micker716 — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:34:49 +0000

Exactly. 2010 was supposed to be Latos year coming off a strong 2009 (although he faded badly at the end). It never really happened. I’m a Latos fan, but there are questions about his make-up. I tend to believe 2010 was just an aberration, partly due to overly high expectations on a young, developing pitcher and maybe overuse in ’09. Still, leaving Bud Black, Darren Balsley and Petco for the meat-grinder that is Dusty Baker and G.A.B. might not yield the positive results Red’s fans are expecting.