I mean, as a Cardinal fan, look at Ozzie’s numbers, if not for his defensive abilities and his honestly popularity he wouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame. Edmonds has better average, on base, more runs per season than Ozzie did…

1. When Jim Edmonds was playing CF for St. Louis, there was no player (non-pitcher) that I would rather have had on my team. (Astros fan). Whether he did it for enough years is tougher, in this period of inflated homerun stats. I would tend to vote “yes”.

2. Beltran for no more than two years is a good fit for the Cardinals. Keep Berkman at first and the whole lineup gets stronger. Even on bad knees I’d rather see him in the outfield.

Papi needs to do it longer. He still doesn’t have the production of borderline HOFers like Dawson and Rice.

I just don’t think the voters will see fit to enshrine him.

Henderson also hit ‘only’ 297 HRs. Should his HRs keep him out of the HOF?

RBIs are dependent on guys getting on base ahead of you. Henderson also ‘only’ had 1115 RBIs. Should his RBIs keep him out of the HOF?

Most corner OFs would have a hard time getting in with those stats but Rick;y was so valuable just because he got on base so freakin’ much with decent power for a leadoff man.

Edmonds was better defensively at a more important position and has to get credit for that. His coming up big in clutch situations should not matter because I’m not sure he did. But even without trying to measure that he has a pretty good case. And whether the voters agree or not does not change the numbers he put up..

OBP is a much better stat than BA, agreed.

I’d love to see the guy get in, I just don’t think he will.

His defensive prowess and penchant for coming up big in the clutch are bound to help him
but hardly enough to get him to Cooperstown, not gonna happen.

He’ll be lucky to get 30% of the vote in his first year of eligibility.

Using BA instead of OBP is the mistake critics of Tim Raines make.

Second, list for me 10 CF that had better careers than Edmonds while playing the entire thing as a CF and not moving to 1B, DH, or RF. There aren’t 10.

Jimmy Ballgame’s final stats:

BA .284
HR 393
RBI 1,199

A helluva career but not HOF wothy IMO.

Had Edmonds stayed in Anaheim and put up those numbers over his career I would agree with you. But look at his 8 years with the Cardinals and what his final numbers were. In St. Louis he had a .393 OBP and an OPS+ of 143. Hard to find many CFs that combined those numbers with his defense in the HOF.

He wasn’t Willie Mays but I hope that’s not the standard it takes to get voted in.

So while I expect Cabrera to end up with a better career than Beltran I don’t think it has happened at this point. Beltran is still a pretty good hitter, himself.

And I agree Cabrera has been one of the best hitters of the last 7-8 years.

As for him and the Cards, I’m for it I suppose – they have to do something.

I’ll give you Big Papi on the 9 years.

But what appeals to me is that he has been clutch – particularly in big games. He and Manny anchored those Red Sox teams. Without them…….

Are you serious?

Cabrara -

Averages 30 HR’s a year and 109 RBI a year
BA – .317
OBP – .395
SLG – .555
OPS – .950

Beltran

Averages 21.5 HR’s a year and 82 RBI a year
BA – 283
OBP – .361 .
SLG – 496
OPS – 857

And Cabrara was the big gun that has led both the Marlins and Tigers to the post-season.

And the scary thing about Cabrara – HE’S ONLY 28 YEARS OLD! it can be argued that his best years are coming.

Next to Albert Puhols, Miguel Cabrara has been the best hitter in MLB. If he played in NYC or Boston the national media would be talking about him every day.

You really think Carlos Beltran is a HOF player?

He has been in the major leagues 14 years, and he’s hit .300 all of 4 times….and I’m giving him last year because he it .300 with the Giants, with the Mets he hit .283.

Carlos was/is a very talented player and respected by all that played with and against him. But he never really became “the man” for his team – never carried them or led them.

I thought Beltran was be a Micky Mantle type player. He had it all – power, speed, switch-hitter, rand in the OF, decent throwing arm. But no, I don’t think he ever approached impacting a game and a season like Mantle.

A decent enough player. But a Hall Of Famer? Sorry, don’t think so.

2011 he played 142 games with a 910 OPS.
In comparison Holliday had 124 games with a 912 OPS

I’d go as far as to say even if Beltran never plays another game in his life he’d still be good enough to get in. He’s had a fantastic career and is definitely worthy.

Hey Tash, what is the benefit of “grouping”, it only creates less definition, and pigeonholes players unnecessarily. A few of the players are primarily DHs, but other than that they have little in common.

As for Fielder, it would not be prudent for a National League Team to invest 7-10 years for him. He is a DH in waiting due to his body type. However, the dude plays almost every inning of every game so his work ethic is exemplary not troubling.

Teams are also aware of all of the contributions they get from players. Fielder is all hit, no field, no base running. Teams may be reluctant to overpay a 1-trick pony if there is concern about how consistently it can do the trick.

Ortiz has also only been “Big Papi” for 9 years. He was just meh while he was with the Twins. I would pump the brakes on calling him a HOF player. He’s not anywhere near as good as Edgar Martinez and Edgar isn’t sniffing the HOF right now.

You have to factor in that Beltran is going to miss chunks of the season injured.

A pity, because all those guys had great careers ahead of them. Only Thome goes in the Hall, and he was helped by not having the nagging injuries till late in his caree. And of course he could DH. Beltran, Sizemore and Hafner sure looked like gangbusters early in their careers.

It makes one appreciate the great ones that do it for well over a decade. Albert. Jeter. Manny. Big Papi. Miguel Cabrera. Call these gentlemen ‘Hall of Famers to be’ – Group 2.

Will Mauer and Morneau regroup and become members of Group 2, or will they join Group 1?

Which lead me to Prince Fielder. How could at least a half-dozen teams not be offering a big 7 year contract for him? A guy that you can put in the #4 hole and build around him for years. Unless the front offices project that with his “body type” and work habits, he is going to be a candidate for Group #1 in the near future.