Comments on: Barry Bonds and the Hall of Fame: a simple question

By: dexterismyhero

dexterismyhero — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:55:22 +0000

And a simple answer: No!

By: mauiandpapa

mauiandpapa — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 15:12:42 +0000

Dude….Chill. Go see the HOF cause it’s great. It’s an amazing place. Mr Harper and his high horse are not on trial. The Baseball Hall of fame has admitted people that are of questionable moral character throughout its history: Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Kirby Puckett (sadly), hell even Babe Ruth some would say. But cheating is a different kind of crime when it comes to sports. Being a racist or a womanizer sucks but doesn’t have a bearing on the outcome of a game. Using drugs to enhance performance undermines the intergrity of the game and unfortunately the era you speak of. I loved the 90′s too but Albert Belle and Juan Gonzalez should not be in the hall of fame. They cheated. Period.

By: bullysix

bullysix — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:35:50 +0000

The hall is full of people who had questionable character. These steroid era players should be allowed in and their stats should indicate what helped them achieve those statistics

By: pjmarn6

pjmarn6 — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 02:04:49 +0000

Barry Bonds and all these pill poppers have made a mockery of the hall of fame and there is no way to fix it. Perhaps two or three areas. One before the drugging was suspected. A second area during the suspected area and a third area for the time after the drugging area.

By: klownboy

klownboy — Fri, 23 Dec 2011 15:32:16 +0000

Bonds has really hurt his candidacy for the Hall. What a putz…
http://theklowntimes.net/2011/12/23/bonds-arrogance-is-sickening/

By: klownboy

klownboy — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:58:22 +0000

Here’s the deal. Is Barry Bonds a Hall-of-Famer before the steroids? Absolutely. In fact, we was considered the best player in baseball for several years before the alleged steroid use.

http://www.theklowntimes.net

By: stercuilus65

stercuilus65 — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 04:24:21 +0000

More Bonds apologist crap.

By: pjmarn6

pjmarn6 — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:12:48 +0000

In the Olympics, if you win and are caught doping, you lose your medal and are banned. Disgraced. Completely fair as every individual is competing against the physical and mental abilities of other clean athletes.
Everyone understand that.
But in sports especially baseball with the ridiculous salaries and long term idiotic salaries and the stupidest people on earth, the owners and general managers who know the athletes are doped and hope they continue to dope to keep up their stats to fill the seats, rewarded doping and winked at it until it became so blatant the game was made a joke, which it still is today.
Multimillion dollar salaries for a .276 hitter, Alex Rodriguez. The players doped themselves enough to have a stellar year just before they became free agents and the gms and owners had to feed the monster they created.
As long as the foolish, naive and read to be deceived public was willing to pay and see the doped rhinestones play on the baseball holy ground the owners were ready to charge through the nose, rid free tv of the games and saturate the radio waves with enough commercials to make people sick.
The racing commission knew how important it was to keep the horses and jockeys clean. The whole industry would fall in a heartbeat if drugging was allowed.
But what the hell BASEBALL was only our national pasttime. It wasn’t worth it to keep it clean as long as the owners and gms lined their pockets with money. As stated many times, professional athletes blow the money as quickly as they make it. Many never live to see those pensions. And as far as the gms and owners, there is a new crop every year.

By: ssazz

ssazz — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:44:44 +0000

More weak deflection, what a surprise. But coming from the guy who thinks it’s “absurd” to even point out that Bonds’ “records” are utterly fraudulent, I take the lame avoidance as a compliment.

And congrats on knowing some poor people, but what that has to do with Bonds’ false assault on the MLB record book I couldn’t begin to tell you. I can’t even sarcastically say nice try, because it’s so pathetically lame.

By: hopespringseternal

hopespringseternal — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:32:23 +0000

A wise man once counseled against judging someone by their worst moments.

By: beamdaddy

beamdaddy — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:45:28 +0000

Simple answer – Did anyone complain when these players were hitting 60-70 homers in a season. Did anyone think it was odd that all of a sudden players were hitting homers in record amounts. I have been a baseball fan for over 50 years – I did not believe it was real.
Baseball was in trouble – they had a strike and lost a lot of fan support. When these homers started it brought baseball back. Fan interest increased. Nobody was complaining.
Now that baseball is healthy we want to condemn these players. We let them save baseball but now want to ban them for what they did.
I do approve of what they did but they saved baseball. PERIOD. Vote them in.

By: drew44

drew44 — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 16:06:13 +0000

Remember, Mark McGwire hit 49 homers as a rookie. So to me, his whole career was Roids. It has to be all or none. You can’t put Bagwell or Mike Schmitt, or any other player in, but exclude bonds

By: drew44

drew44 — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:51:02 +0000

Gee, the all time hit king, pete rose, all time homerun king Barry Bonds not in the Hall of Fame? I guess they should take the biggest roiders, Cal Ripkin and Nolan Ryan out as well. And Roger Clemmons, don’t forgett about A Rod, Manny Ramirez, Big PAPPI, Piazza, all of them. Is it fair that ALL THE STARS of the 80′s, 90′s and 2000′s don’t go into the hall? If you were great during those times, you more than likely did roids.

By: richie26

richie26 — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:44:18 +0000

For the record, I do think that Bonds should be in the HOF. Also, I didn’t say he cheated, but there are those who believe he did. Yes, there were no rules against steroids. But for arguments sake, if the writers who cast a vote look at him as a “cheater”, then my response to them is to put him in anyway since the HOF is not “cheater” free. And he was a Hall of Famer before he allegedly took steroids. The history of Baseball is littered with players and managers trying to get an edge over the competition, with a blind eye from ownership.

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:07:24 +0000

“(just like you can’t seem to between a spitballing pitcher, and a scientifically, artificially enhanced player who trampled over some of the single greatest individual accomplishments in the game)”

This is the single most absurd justification I’ve ever heard of, and I know poor people who voted for Bush.

By: garlicfriesandbaseball

garlicfriesandbaseball — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:55:18 +0000

It hasn’t been determined he used PED’s. Last I heard it was a prescribed medicine. And last I heard it was innocent until proven guilty. If they’re going to do the tests at least they might want to get it right don’t you think?

By: cktai

cktai — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:09:26 +0000

Yes I am saying that. And you seem to agree, so what is the problem?

By: ssazz

ssazz — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:51:18 +0000

Wow, name calling on the internet. That’s always the sign of a powerful argument at work. Color me impressed.

And why exactly is it “absurd” to point out Bond’s broke all-time records as a direct result of using steroids? You seem to be acknowledging just that fact in your weak attempt at deflection. (The answer to your absurd question btw, about why the Giants shouldn’t have all of his runs erased has been pointed out a couple of times in this thread already, it wasn’t illegal then. They stand, and his “records” stand as well unfortunately) Those “records” are documented in the Hall currently. Anyone who wants to look on them and celebrate them as legitimate are welcome to. We were discussing an individual honor, sorry you can’t make the distinction. (just like you can’t seem to between a spitballing pitcher, and a scientifically, artificially enhanced player who trampled over some of the single greatest individual accomplishments in the game) Aaron’s numbers were achieved legitimately, Bonds record breaking numbers were not. Nothing in your whiny “argument” changes the truth of that. The only thing you proved honestly is what a douchebag you are.

By: atlca

atlca — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:20:53 +0000

Couple points:

If you leave out a generation of players, the HOF turns into irrelevance. Teens and those in their twenties will not see the top players in the HOF so that generation loses any reason to appreciate the HOF. Are we going to keep A-Rod, Braun, Clemens , McGuire, etc. out? Sort of leave the last 15 or so years out like it never happened? They are well aware of the steroid era and seem to be doing a better job of handling it than most of the older generation

Character is totally subjective. Ty Cobb was one of the biggest a-holes ever and he’s in. Mantle was a drunk and he’s in. Gaylord Perry put just about everything known to mankind on the ball and he’s in. Shall we keep going? Character and following the rules seems to not be a big issue in past selections.

Whether or not the writers “like” the candidate is irrelevant. We are depending on them as people watching baseball daily for years and having developed expertise to determine for us and the future generations who the best ball players were in a given era. I have no opinion on Bonds in the HOF but I do know that if you break his swing down on video it is probably one of the best swings ever in baseball and I use it to teach kids the right mechanics. So that needs to be balanced against the morals and likability issues.

By: atwatercrushesokoye

atwatercrushesokoye — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:12:22 +0000

I agree people seem to forget that Bonds won 2 batting titles while allegedly on roids, sorry but steroids won’t help you suddenly become a .370 hitter with only 47 strike outs. Believe anything you want about steroids but they wouldn’t have helped his batting eye which led him to low strikeouts and high walks (even non intentional ones) maybe he hit some balls further, but I think people overvalue what they can or can’t do for a player.

By: greggatx

greggatx — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 23:26:09 +0000

Nobody ever got into the HOF because of their good moral values. It’s the stats they put up during their careers. Barry Bonds has the numbers and then some. There are a lot of players in the HOF that really don’t have that great of stats and are there. No big deal. The Bond, McGwire and Sosa era gave us some exciting baseball. Today, not so much, kind of boring to me. In baseball the pendulum swings back and forth between good hitting and good pitching. We’ve got better pitching right now. It has nothing to do with steroids. Steroids don’t give you better eye hand coordination or the ability to place your pitches better. If it did all ball players would be MVPs. If you feel you have to blame some one you should blame MLB’s executives, but all they saw were high ratings and packed stadiums. For me the answer is yes to Bonds and all others that have the stats! That’s what the Hall is all about, the STATS!

By: metalhead65

metalhead65 — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:21:54 +0000

what is wrong about taking a moral stand on cheating? oh wait I forgot nobody was hurt except fans who actually thought they were witnessing history being made so it is ok your book. bonds was a hall of famer before he decided to roid up to smash home run records. sorry in my book using roids is cheating and cheating is morally wrong.

By: WhenMattStairsIsKing

WhenMattStairsIsKing — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:13:58 +0000

I like the honest morality that Harper provides as well.

But it’s all arbitrary, and that can’t be measured. In 2011, would we vote in a racist drunk who argued with fans violently? Of course not. But Ty Cobb’s in there anyway.

By: JBerardi

JBerardi — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:38:18 +0000

".Barry Bonds hit 70 something Homers but it was while he was ingesting performance enhancing drugs that only a select group of cheaters was doing. Too bad about Ken Caminiti, Rafael Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, etc." That's just blatantly counterfactual. Plenty of obscure middle relievers and fringy 5th outfielders have been busted for PEDs. It's probably comforting to imagine that the problem was confined to a select group of players, but it's also remarkably naive. I mean, who has more incentive to use PEDs than marginal, fringy players? In a league where no one is testing, those guys are practically required to use PEDs.

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:43:02 +0000

“Bonds didn’t retire or end his career in 1998, so why should he get an arbitrary cut off point?”

Because everyone pretty much accuses him of starting steroids in 1999.

For those who keep spouting the absurd line that “Aaron should get his records back”, I say this. Fine. But be sure to go back through and wipe all the runs off the board that helped a team win those games. If that home run doesn’t count in Bonds’ career stats, why should the Giants as a team get credit for it? Should the Angels and Red Sox be stripped of their World Series crowns because the WS MVPs are now known to have done steroids? Why only punish the individual and not the teams that benefited from it too!

The entire culture of MLB supported steroids either directly or by turning a blind eye. Trying to go back and paint make villains in a ridiculous witch hunt ignores the history of MLB. Wanna make villains out of cheaters? Fine, go picket next to Gaylord Perry’s plague, otherwise I tend to think you are a hypocritical douchebag.

By: ireportyoudecide

ireportyoudecide — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:37:11 +0000

Thumbs down becuase you don’t like him or you think he cheated? Please one person tell me what he did that was against the rules. You may not like the fact that he used steroids or HGH but it is pretty clear that he wasn’t breaking any rules.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:14:24 +0000

Ugh HuffPo piece saying it was confirmed he failed tests for 3 different steroids:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/04/barry-bonds-steroid-evide_n_163826.html

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:13:32 +0000

Here’s a NYDN article, not definitive but:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-02-03/sports/17915934_1_doping-calendars-bonds-grand-jury-testimony-urine-sample

By: sjbryce

sjbryce — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:12:22 +0000

It would be a shame if Barry Bonds didn’t make the Hall of Fame. You can agree or disagree with me but hear me out first. I know that many people look down upon him for his steroid use and the way he treated media and fans, but this is about playing the game of baseball. Can anyone honestly say that he was not going to be one of the better baseball players of that generation if there were no steroids? No. It’s simple. He was one of the greatest of that era. He was the epitome of a 5 tool player even before steroids. He hit for power, average, had a good arm, was a gold glove left fielder, and was a base stealing threat. Of course he boosted those numbers by taking steroids, but how many HRs can you attribute to steroids? Actually how much further do steroids make you hit a ball. You still need to be a great athlete to hit a 100 MHP fastball. Steroids don’t give you eye hand coordination. My last point is that MLB and Bud Selig are the true people to blame for the steroid era. They can say all they want about not knowing what was going on, but who is really going to believe that? I know that some people have their own morals and would sit here and deny that they would take steroids. Most were never put it that position in the first place. These guys looked around and saw McGuire and Sosa getting paid boatloads of money because “chicks dig the long ball.” Bonds was a better athlete than those other two but saw those two getting all the pub and fame. So who can really say they wouldn’t want what those two had? Not me

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:10:02 +0000

Has BB ever been reported as failing a drug test by MLB? Has he ever been proven to have broken rules of the game with respect to any PED? Not to my knowledge.

Mentioned this in another thread, but I’m pretty sure after the FEDs got a hold of the syringe from Trevor Graham, allowing them to test for the Cream and the Clear, they retested Bonds sample from ’03 and found the steroids in his system*. Unfortunately due to the way google works, trying to find an article on Bonds + steroids leads to 1093692653 articles from writers high atop their pedestals.

*The Cream and the Clear were designed to not get picked up by steroid testing at the time.