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Comment of the Day: my Jack Morris bias is revealed

Dec 23, 2011, 9:43 AM EDT

Jack Morris

A reader took issue with my “I wouldn’t vote for Jack Morris” comment in the Vinny Castilla post:

Your B.S. about Morris not deserving the hall because he gave up so many runs during his wins & that his most wins in the 80’s is an over inflated stat during a meaningless time period is ludacris. Just admit it’s because he blanked your Braves for 10 innings in the W.S.

Yes. That’s it. You got me. It feels so good to be exposed like this. I no longer have to live a lie.  I no longer have to pretend that:

  • Morris didn’t prevent the opposition from scoring runs at anything much greater than an average clip;
  • That he didn’t “pitch to the score” (or, if he tried to, he was not particularly successful at it);
  • That apart from one game in the 1991 World Series, he was nothing special as a playoff pitcher;
  • That despite his “best starter of the 80s” reputation, he was rarely thought of as special by Cy Young voters, who gave him the same number of Cy Young votes over his career as Mike Hampton and Dontrelle Willis.

No, I can admit that Jack Morris was the best pitcher of his generation and most others and that my hatred of him is based on something he did 20 years ago that caused my team pain.  It’s the same reason I’m against Kent Hrbek and Dan Gladden for the Hall of Fame too.  My bias and hatred for any player who performs well against the Atlanta Braves is long and enduring and finally — finally! — it can be brought into the light.

God, this is such a weight off my shoulders.

  1. catsmeat - Dec 23, 2011 at 9:47 AM

    In the comments to the horrific Braves xmas video, someone asked who Craig would troll if he ever jumped ship from Braves fandom to Phillies fandom. The answer is so obvious, you guys: he’d always be trolling the Jack Morris supporters.

    • jwbiii - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:28 AM

      That’s a little more difficult. You can lob a stink bomb into the Phillies camp almost every day during the season and frequently during the off season. With Jack Morris, you’re limited to the “Here’s My Hall of Fame Ballot” column season, which is pretty short. You get the occasional “Why Isn’t ____ In?” column at other times of the year, but they’re few and far between.

      • catsmeat - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:36 AM

        True, it would require a little more effort, but I think Craig is up to the task. He was an attorney, which basically means he has an advanced degree in trolling.

      • jwbiii - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:58 AM

        Have you noticed that the “Here’s My Hall of Fame Ballot” column season, a column which can be written months in advance, coincides with the “I Need to Knock Off Early and Finish My Christmas Shopping” season?

      • paperlions - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:06 AM

        You don’t even have to lob anything in the direction of Philly Phans. You can just make an honest observation and they will take offense to it. They auto-troll.

      • bozosforall - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:53 AM

        Nothing compared to the mega-crybabies of Boston (in all sports).

      • Francisco (FC) - Dec 23, 2011 at 1:33 PM

        You can just make an honest observation and they will take offense to it. They auto-troll.

        Ah. You made a nice impression of a Philly Phan during the Albert fracas then. ;)

  2. theonlynolan - Dec 23, 2011 at 9:48 AM

    If you had a bias against every team and player that knocked the Braves out of the playoffs then The Hall of Fame would be substantially less populated.

    • largebill - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:09 AM

      Woo-hoo, my Indians are safe based on our poor play in the 1995 World Series. However, Glavine and Justice will never get my imaginary vote.

      You guys don’t think Craig is still upset about the 1948 World Series do you? Heck, he wasn’t born yet and the Braves were still in Boston then.

    • Francisco (FC) - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:23 AM

      Well Hank is safe…

    • stlouis1baseball - Dec 23, 2011 at 12:13 PM

      Paper: You are exactly right. They are most certainly a very sensitive “F”an base. Part of which I chaulk up to Ryan Howard being the most overated player of this generation. Lol!
      The Philly “F”ans will certainly take exception to that huh?
      NOTE: Philadelphia “F”ans…I am partially joking about the Howard comment.
      Please note my deliberate refusal to use the letters “Ph.”
      Of all things that drive me crazy (and there are many)…the cheesey ass use of the letters “ph” ranks right up their at the top.

      • sasquash20 - Dec 23, 2011 at 1:16 PM

        What a douche bag. Take any chance you can to dog a whole city and its fan base, both of which have nothing to do with this story/post. But I will join the fun. You bitches still crying about losing the best player you ever had? Your over it now right? You realize he won you 2 World Series titles right? Bunch of bitches in St.louis, go look at your rainbow arch pillow bitters!

      • stlouis1baseball - Dec 23, 2011 at 1:30 PM

        SashCrotch: If I was your Bitch…I would dress you better chump. I was really being more facetious than anything else. But as mentioned in Papers post..you naturally “auto-troll.”
        Bitter? Not in the slightest. I took me about a week…and I am good with it. Of course…Winning the latest W.S. title certainly helps that (along with their TEN other ones of course). Best player ever? See….Musial, Stan.

      • Francisco (FC) - Dec 23, 2011 at 1:35 PM

        Of all things that drive me crazy (and there are many)…the cheesey ass use of the letters “ph” ranks right up their at the top.

        And we’ll continue to use it as long as it gets the reaction we know and love.

      • stlouis1baseball - Dec 23, 2011 at 1:38 PM

        FC! It’s been awhile man. How you been?

  3. AK47 - Dec 23, 2011 at 9:48 AM

    At least put up a picture of him (Morris) in a Twins jersey if the commenter makes reference to him blanking the Braves for 10 innings in a WS.

  4. Bill - Dec 23, 2011 at 9:53 AM

    Craig, your bias against Jack Morris is ridiculous. It’s almost like just because he wasn’t a great pitcher, and wasn’t one of the 30 or 40 best eligible pitchers not already in the Hall of Fame, you don’t want to put him in! Pathetic.

    FWIW (and people will probably read this who have read it before, and I apologize), I was at the game in person at which Morris blanked Craig’s Braves for ten innings. It was an awesome accomplishment, and it’s one of my most cherished memories. But it’s still just one game from an otherwise just-pretty-good pitcher, and doesn’t make him Hall-worthy any more than it does Gene Larkin.

  5. royhobbs39 - Dec 23, 2011 at 9:55 AM

    And this is the same justification for Craig voting in Bonds on the first ballot.

  6. hwentworth - Dec 23, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    His claim is a mediocre rapper/actor? Really? I never would have made that connection, and for that I thank you.

    • bravojawja - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:29 AM

      Well, they are both Braves fans. The difference, of course, is that Ludacris is actually from Atlanta.

      • bozosforall - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:56 AM

        Why should that matter? You root for whom you root for. The ONLY people who don’t get a pass are those who jump from bandwagon to bandwagon.

  7. 78mu - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM

    There’s a better argument for Morris in the HOF than most players but the pitch to score thing is utter bs. Even if it were true, would we put someone in the HOF for allowing runs when he could have prevented them? Is this really supposed to be an argument for Morris?

    How about this argument. Bernie Williams belongs in the HOF because he hit to score. He didn’t try to get hits when those Yankee teams were already up by 5 runs but when the score was close he bore down and really gave it a great effort. Even the BBWAA members that curse night baseball would laugh at that argument and yet they think it’s great for Morris.

    • largebill - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:11 AM

      78mu,

      Great. Best refutation of the pitch to score nonsense I’ve seen.

    • ptfu - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:30 AM

      Hitting to the score is what makes the Captain so much better than ARod these days. That’s what the 100% accurate NY media keeps telling me. If only ARod could hit to the score, he might have a compelling HOF case one of these years. Stop homering in blowouts and try some clutch hitting!

      /sarcasm

      Yeah. 78mu’s right on.

    • bozosforall - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:57 AM

      Bernie for the HOF…NOW!!!!!

  8. Marc - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:11 AM

    My favorite part of that whole article/comment thing is that the article had precisely nothing to do with Jack Morris. It’s so odd to me that just because an article is about the Hall of Fame and voting it immediately becomes a forum for Jack Morris soapboxing.

  9. Ben - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:11 AM

    As a Twins fan who vividly remembers ’91, Morris doesn’t belong in the HOF. He belongs in the Hall of the Pretty Good, and there’s no shame in that.

    • bozosforall - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:58 AM

      So does Jim Rice..but he got in.

      • havlicekstoletheball - Dec 25, 2011 at 10:36 PM

        Rice was the most feared hitter in the major leagues from 1975-86.

  10. hushbrother - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:38 AM

    There are, and always have been, more flaws in the Hall of Fame voting system than you can count. If there had been a sensible voting system in place from the get go we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Because Jack Morris is nowhere near a slam dunk Hall of Famer. He’s a borderline candidate. Actually, he’s well below that. But because pitchers of his caliber have been elected before (Jesse Haines, Red Faber), Morris has a legitimate case.

    The problem with HOF voting isn’t the 5% minimum rule or the 10 player limit. It’s the fact that for years there was a committee of old guys who, if 12 of them agreed their old buddy was worthy, could elect a schlub into the Hall of Fame. Thanks to them, in a few years some people will be arguing that Jamie Moyer is a Hall of Famer.

    • bigxrob - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:23 AM

      Wait..Jamie Moyer isn’t an hall of famer?

  11. trevorb06 - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:39 AM

    vikesfansteve baited and Craig bit. Craig, you just let him win. Good for you vikesfansteve, you are an extremely good master baiter.

    • vikesfansteve - Dec 24, 2011 at 6:06 PM

      jealousy is so ugly trevor

  12. Chipmaker - Dec 23, 2011 at 10:57 AM

    Morris supporters who reach for the “most wins in the 80s” factoid (which has somehow morphed into “best pitcher of the 80s”, which has a lot less support behind it) never recognize that, when they have to reach that far, they’ve already lost the debate.

    • jwbiii - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM

      But, but, that argument would also defeat my Mark Grace had the most hits in the 90s, so he must have been the best hitter of the ’90s HOF argument!

    • 78mu - Dec 23, 2011 at 2:07 PM

      If the most wins in the 80s is a big selling point for Morris to get into the HOF then shouldn’t we give the credit to his mom and dad? If they had hooked up a few years earlier he may have had the most wins from 1977 to 1987. If they had waiter a couple of years he would have had the most wins from 1982 to 1992.

      A lot of players have a case against their parents for not planning the pregnancy to better their case for the HOF.

  13. Jonny 5 - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:18 AM

    Jamie Moyer has a better K/BB ratio than Morris and he pitched until he was 47 and Morris until he was 39.

    • mcsnide - Dec 23, 2011 at 4:44 PM

      Yeah, but could he pitch to the score?

  14. rooney24 - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:25 AM

    Most.
    Professional.
    Article.
    Ever.

    Really, an entire article just because you allowed some dude to get under your skin?? Regardless of the arguments for or against Morris, the reason for this article is petty.

    • bigxrob - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:30 AM

      Are we calling blog posts “articles”now?
      Next thing you know, Craig is going to be accused of being a journalist.

      • trevorb06 - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:53 AM

        Then he can have a vote for the HOF! :-)

    • koufaxmitzvah - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:42 AM

      STOP.
      DOING.
      THIS.

      • stlouis1baseball - Dec 23, 2011 at 12:16 PM

        I.
        Couldn’t.
        Agree.
        More.

    • jwbiii - Dec 23, 2011 at 11:46 AM

      Slow news day. Do you think a “Rangers Re-Sign Matt Kata to a Minor League Contract” post is going to draw flies?

  15. stlouis1baseball - Dec 23, 2011 at 12:15 PM

    Craig: It is now blatantly obvious. You are pro Dale Murphy and anti Jack Morris.
    All because Murphy is more deserving!
    Well…just because someone is more deserving…doesn’t…you know…make them more deserving.

  16. nekotman - Dec 23, 2011 at 12:43 PM

    Everyone here needs to read Joe Posnanski’s article at SI/Baseball about Jack Morris if you really want the lowdown on his HOF chances. Go ahead, read it!!! Then come back here and post about Morris. You also Craig!!! Read it. All this back and forth with not much substance is just so much gas. Stinky gas.
    Btw, big time Braves fan here for many years.

  17. stlducks - Dec 23, 2011 at 2:12 PM

    I laugh every time I see a Philly fan because I just think of the times before the cards beat them in the playoffs and the kept saying sir halladay and Clifford couldn’t be beaten, and then they turned on their team within minutes the series was over.

  18. stex52 - Dec 23, 2011 at 2:43 PM

    Could be worse, Craig. At least he didn’t trash “The Big Lebowski”.

  19. pitolove124 - Dec 23, 2011 at 3:51 PM

    Really good points. I don’t believe Morris is a HOF either. He was a workhorse and a a few good years but you can’t consider him great – Morris was never the best pitcher in his years. He was always considered a really good pitcher who van keep you in the game. Hall of fame is only for the greats.

  20. channingtaintum - Dec 23, 2011 at 3:52 PM

    Vikesfansteve gets a comment of the day thread dedicated entirely to him?

    Vikesmansteve?

    That’s the equivalent of giving halladaysbiceps the Spink Award.

    • vikesfansteve - Dec 24, 2011 at 5:46 PM

      Fuck off.

  21. charlutes - Dec 23, 2011 at 4:17 PM

    I rip Florio’s analysis on PFT all the time and he won’t even post my criticism, let alone respond and defend his writing. Good post, refreshing that you aren’t hiding.

    • jwbiii - Dec 23, 2011 at 5:08 PM

      The only comment I’ve made here that was deleted contained a link to a commercial site. It was relevant to the post, but I understand the reason. It’s a slippery slope from a link to a bakery in a AAA city (some player had been demoted or signed to a minor league deal or something like that) to Sugar Daddy dot com, and I don’t blame anybody one bit for not wanting to take the first step down it.

  22. vikesfansteve - Dec 24, 2011 at 5:43 PM

    I’m glad you got that off your chest. Now what about the hatred for Jeff Francoeur.

  23. vikesfansteve - Dec 24, 2011 at 5:52 PM

    I bitch all the time about Morris deserving to be in the hall of fame. Craig has answered me before replying to my post saying the same thing he wrote in this post. So my response is he hates Morris because he is a Brave’s fan. Usually I get about 50 down votes when I praise Morris. At least Craig has the sense of humor enough & the reasoning enough to respond to my tirades. Doesn’t change the fact that I was a fan of his even with the Tigers. When they started 35-5 in 84 & he had that no hitter. I think of him as a HOF worthy competitor who wasn’t roided out.

    Anyway Craig, thanks for finally admitting to the reason.

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